What do you all think of the 2016 IZIP models? Anyone going to upgrade?

[Cameron Newland]

I like my 2015 IZIP E3 Dash, but I don't particularly like its weak mechanical disc brakes that require seemingly constant adjustments.

I don't think I'm going to upgrade my ebike this year. Considering the heavy depreciation of a brand new ebike, I just don't want to experience that this year. I'll wait a year or two until a far-superior ebike is on sale for the same $3k I paid for my Dash.

The new 2016 models have been announced, and the E3 Dash and E3 ProTour are going mid-drive and both have hydraulic disc brakes. Seems like the upgraded parts might tempt some ebike owners to upgrade. What do you think?

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Battery on the Protour and the new Dash remains the same. That's a little disappointing.
Hydraulic brakes are cheap unless you go Shimano Saint or Magura MT5's. All Ebikes should come standard with Hydro or Avid BB7's at least.
A person who can afford a $3500 Protour will also consider other bikes like Haibike or Focus... so the competition is getting tougher.
There is some kind of restructuring going on with Izip USA formerly (Currietech). The name's changed, some of the territory managers have moved away.... Larry is busy with North America Ebike Competency center etc.

 

[George S.]

There is some kind of restructuring going on with Izip USA formerly (Currietech). The name's changed, some of the territory managers have moved away.... Larry is busy with North America Ebike Competency center etc.

Do you think these corporate hierarchies and bureaucratic structures are gaining or losing ground to people who seem to make very respectable ebikes with pretty minimal companies?

I Googled EBCC and got press releases quoting press releases, biz social media jargon...

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Do you think these corporate hierarchies and bureaucratic structures are gaining or losing ground to people who seem to make very respectable ebikes with pretty minimal companies?

I Googled EBCC and got press releases quoting press releases, biz social media jargon...

Surely new companies have come up with great products but they don't have the network or support system established, yet.
What we are seeing is, previously some of these companies setup factories in China or imported products from there. Now, RadPower, Biktrix etc are doing something similar.
Yet to see a young company design something very new and innovative (most are just copy cats).

Visiobike and iGo tried something nice but then got sold off. Currie/Izip was just sourcing material from TranzX and I am looking fwd to riding their new protour next week. I think it's going to be interesting moving forward. Especially with new products from Haibike USA, BESV, Prodeco ( did you know they are releasing panasonic mid drive system? )

 

[Vern]

Prodeco with a Panasonic midrive. Very interesting. The new Izips look promising. Let us know your thoughts!

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Sorry to be negative but my response comes from this:

Izip/Currie has so much potential to change the E-bike landscape in the US but they dilute their product line up and make room for random importers to pop up.

Changing styling and product features every year = need to maintain a large inventory for spares/ batteries for each year. Can be confusing for the customer.

I think it says one thing - we are all early adopters and by purchasing an E-bike, we acknowledge to pay the premium and absorb the depreciation cost.

 

[George S.]

The chronic problem with a disk brake is troubling on a bike in this price range. Ideally, they would replace components after 'x' failures. The loyalty is remarkable, so the overall experience must be good for owners.

It seems like Accell could have a big pot of money for development across a smaller set of brands, rather than developing small changes in many brands.

I think Accell's big triumph this year is the Chiu Bill (we'll forget NY, for now). Maybe Brown will sign the bill during Interbike, if everything is cleared out.

If there isn't some product that really represents something more than power and little tweaks, I think Team Bafang is the winner. Would they ever do a bit of leapfrog tech? The experimenters tend to innovate outside the rules for ebikes. Sadly. But that's another of the dynamic tensions in the ebike industry.

I hope you see a lot of things that show what is going on, across the spectrum. At IB. Have some fun!

 

[Steve Ryu]

I like my 2015 IZIP E3 Dash, but I don't particularly like its weak mechanical disc brakes that require seemingly constant adjustments.

I don't think I'm going to upgrade my ebike this year. Considering the heavy depreciation of a brand new ebike, I just don't want to experience that this year. I'll wait a year or two until a far-superior ebike is on sale for the same $3k I paid for my Dash.

The new 2016 models have been announced, and the E3 Dash and E3 ProTour are going mid-drive and both have hydraulic disc brakes. Seems like the upgraded parts might tempt some ebike owners to upgrade. What do you think?

Hey Cameron,

Hope your Dash is running well from the last time we saw you. If you are going to IB, I think you'll be pleased with the new Dash and the new 2016 models overall. They ride awesome and to not give away too much, but the braking system has improved.

 

[rstort]

I like my 2015 IZIP E3 Dash, but I don't particularly like its weak mechanical disc brakes that require seemingly constant adjustments.

I don't think I'm going to upgrade my ebike this year. Considering the heavy depreciation of a brand new ebike, I just don't want to experience that this year. I'll wait a year or two until a far-superior ebike is on sale for the same $3k I paid for my Dash.

The new 2016 models have been announced, and the E3 Dash and E3 ProTour are going mid-drive and both have hydraulic disc brakes. Seems like the upgraded parts might tempt some ebike owners to upgrade. What do you think?

I've mentioned this on another thread but you can solve the problem of deficient braking systems on the Dash you bought and other fast ebikes (I have the Dash and a Diamondback Trace ebike as well) with TRP HyRd hydraulic brakes. They're expensive at about $300 plus installation but well worth it IMHO. Adding compressionless housing and good aftermarket pads for the HyRd will get you brakes that approximate the best stock hydraulic systems.

 

[Jack Tyler]

I'd welcome hearing what folks think the rationale was for shifting to a 'Boost Button in' the 2016 models, and away from a throttle. Driven by the CA legislation? Because it's an option, was it profit driven perhaps? And from the IB interview, I couldn't tell if the BB provides 'all or nothing' engagement of the motor...tho' I would assume so. For those of you with a throttle, what do you think about the BB alternative vs. what you are now using?

 

[Cory151]

Just another luddite here, but I think moving away from a hub motor towards a mid drive is the opposite of what I want. The Specialized Turbos and the Stromers just feel so much more quicker and agile to me. I want to find an E3 Dash before they are all gone (hopefully at an end of model year discount).

 

[Paul E.]

I'd welcome hearing what folks think the rationale was for shifting to a 'Boost Button in' the 2016 models, and away from a throttle. Driven by the CA legislation? Because it's an option, was it profit driven perhaps? And from the IB interview, I couldn't tell if the BB provides 'all or nothing' engagement of the motor...tho' I would assume so. For those of you with a throttle, what do you think about the BB alternative vs. what you are now using?

It sucks and I can't imagine any rational reason other than a workaround for the stupid legislation. The manufacturing cost savings are probably about $1.25.

 

[George S.]

For those of you with a throttle, what do you think about the BB alternative vs. what you are now using?

Don't know if you mean pedal assist plus throttle or pure throttle. I only have a throttle. To me, the Boost Button is worthless. I use a twist throttle as a pedal assist. I rarely want full power, but I want some power. I don't even think about the throttle. I just ride. I like gradually starting with motor power. The button won't do that. It's designed for pedal assist, of course, not to replace a throttle only system.

 

[HumanitiesHaze]

I love my throttle, just creeping around slowly in parks I wouldn't want to give it up. A button wouldn't be the same.
Also, the brakes are fine, I bought one of those 3d metal printed brake tools for $12 so I don't have to take the rear wheel off to adjust the brakes. It's amazing! I recommend to any Dash owner. I put about 2k of heavy city miles on my bike this year (lots of stop/start with red lights). And I just now will have to replace my pads. But I do that once a year anyways. I use Cruise Control way too much to give up the brake cut-off for it, which switching to hydraulic would do.

The only advantage to the mid-drive I can see is torque and not having to tighten the spokes once a month.

 

[Denverthane]

I like my 2015 IZIP E3 Dash, but I don't particularly like its weak mechanical disc brakes that require seemingly constant adjustments.

I don't think I'm going to upgrade my ebike this year. Considering the heavy depreciation of a brand new ebike, I just don't want to experience that this year. I'll wait a year or two until a far-superior ebike is on sale for the same $3k I paid for my Dash.

The new 2016 models have been announced, and the E3 Dash and E3 ProTour are going mid-drive and both have hydraulic disc brakes. Seems like the upgraded parts might tempt some ebike owners to upgrade. What do you think?

 

[Denverthane]

Hi Cameron, I was wondering if you had test driven the Juiced Bikes CrossCurrent, and had any thoughts on how it compares to your 2015 e3 Dash, in terms of power, acceleration, torque sensor smoothness, etc? Trying to decide on a discounted 2015 Dash or a CrossCurrent with 10.4 ah battery for about the same price.

 

[Cameron Newland]

Hi Cameron, I was wondering if you had test driven the Juiced Bikes CrossCurrent, and had any thoughts on how it compares to your 2015 e3 Dash, in terms of power, acceleration, torque sensor smoothness, etc? Trying to decide on a discounted 2015 Dash or a CrossCurrent with 10.4 ah battery for about the same price.

I've reached out to Tora from Juiced Riders about the CrossCurrent to see if they can get a demo to me in San Francisco, but it seems like he's very focused on getting all the available units to his patiently waiting customers (which I completely understand – I'd do the same!). I figure that the prime differences between the CrossCurrent and the 2015 Dash would be that the Dash would be faster from 25-30mph and would be better at holding high speeds over long distances, whereas the CrossCurrent might be faster accelerating from 0-20mph and when climbing steeper hills since it's a geared hub motor. Tora has put a lot of work into ensuring that the CrossCurrent is set up for high speeds (its geared hub motor is wound for high speeds), however, a 350W motor can't put out the ~900W that's necessary to maintain 30mph on flat ground for as long as a 500W motor can. The Dash and the CrossCurrent likely have similar peak power outputs, but the Dash's motor would likely run at lower/safer temperatures when ran flat-out. The Dash also has a nicer screen that's centrally mounted, whereas the CrossCurrent's control pad is mostly just buttons and a few LEDs, but the CrossCurrent has hydraulic disc brakes that are likely more powerful and responsive than the 2015 Dash's mechanical disc brakes. It's a tough call between the two bikes. If you can get them for the same price and aren't going to ride many steep hills, I'd go with the Dash, mostly because of its larger service network. If you have a Juiced Riders dealer nearby that does warranty service on them, then that'd be less of an issue.

I love my 2015 Dash, and the only issues I have with it are that I think the brakes could be more powerful, the brake cables require tension adjustments often, and the bike isn't so good at climbing extremely steep hills. It's good on less than 7% grades, though.

 

[Denverthane]

I've reached out to Tora from Juiced Riders about the CrossCurrent to see if they can get a demo to me in San Francisco, but it seems like he's very focused on getting all the available units to his patiently waiting customers (which I completely understand – I'd do the same!). I figure that the prime differences between the CrossCurrent and the 2015 Dash would be that the Dash would be faster from 25-30mph and would be better at holding high speeds over long distances, whereas the CrossCurrent might be faster accelerating from 0-20mph and when climbing steeper hills since it's a geared hub motor. Tora has put a lot of work into ensuring that the CrossCurrent is set up for high speeds (its geared hub motor is wound for high speeds), however, a 350W motor can't put out the ~900W that's necessary to maintain 30mph on flat ground for as long as a 500W motor can. The Dash and the CrossCurrent likely have similar peak power outputs, but the Dash's motor would likely run at lower/safer temperatures when ran flat-out. The Dash also has a nicer screen that's centrally mounted, whereas the CrossCurrent's control pad is mostly just buttons and a few LEDs, but the CrossCurrent has hydraulic disc brakes that are likely more powerful and responsive than the 2015 Dash's mechanical disc brakes. It's a tough call between the two bikes. If you can get them for the same price and aren't going to ride many steep hills, I'd go with the Dash, mostly because of its larger service network. If you have a Juiced Riders dealer nearby that does warranty service on them, then that'd be less of an issue.

I love my 2015 Dash, and the only issues I have with it are that I think the brakes could be more powerful, the brake cables require tension adjustments often, and the bike isn't so good at climbing extremely steep hills. It's good on less than 7% grades, though.

 

[Denverthane]

Thanks for the great response! Any idea if Izip has plans to sell a battery with extended range that will fit the 2015 Dash? How far does the 8.7 ah battery typically go at higher speeds? (One other nice thing about the CrossCurrent is the 24ah battery planned for next fall which should provide awesome range.)

 

[LimboJim]

Before buying my Sumo, I asked Chawn, the lead tech at AccellNA (iZip's parent company), about extended batteries because I was concerned about 8.7Ah, too. I have two hub-motor ebikes with ~12Ah and have stretched them thin on some epic trail rides. After my first few Sumo rides, however, I've discovered that mid-drive motors are far more efficient than hub motors (at least iZip's TransX motors are). 12Ah on my hub motor ebikes lasts about as long as the 8.7Ah Sumo did! (~4-5 hours of hearty trail riding).

Anyway, Chawn reports that there are no larger iZip batteries coming in the near future.