WattWagons Ti CT Fattie

[Cuz Vinny]

My problem and the reason I haven’t purchased another WW bike is I’ve gotten into the electric dirt bikes. My first bike was a Sur Ron X. It has 6000 watts, 60V34ah battery, tops out at 40 plus mph. All for around $4500.00. The second bike is new for 2023, it’s the Sur Ron Ultra Bee. It’s a bigger and more powerful version of the X. It has 12.5kw, 74V55ah battery, and tops out around 60 mph. The list price is $6500.00. These are basically dirt bikes but people have registered and insured them for street use. I realize not everyone likes these or has a place to ride them. My point in the post is I can’t justify spending 5k plus on any Ebike when I can buy one of these for the same price.

 

[Fast n' Furious]

Amazing e(off-road)Motorcycles. What a bargain. And you, being 'off-road' orientated, a pundit I respect.
I saved a bit by dumping vehicles laden with fees, registrations; maintenance; insurance ... you get it.
Putting $10k in a bike, using Public; take a Lyft for other appointments - it's a commitment - I pay a lot less than owning a vehicle.
I hear ya. If I had the $$$ to spend on pure recreation stuff, I'd seek the top of that game too.

 

[Cuz Vinny]

Amazing e(off-road)Motorcycles. What a bargain. And you, being 'off-road' orientated, a pundit I respect.
I saved a bit by dumping vehicles laden with fees, registrations; maintenance; insurance ... you get it.
Putting $10k in a bike, using Public; take a Lyft for other appointments - it's a commitment - I pay a lot less than owning a vehicle.
I hear ya. If I had the $$$ to spend on pure recreation stuff, I'd seek the top of that game too.

I ride mine off road only although the second bike can be registered/tagged/insured. I have a canal road I can ride them on year round.

 

[Fast n' Furious]

I ride mine off road only although the second bike can be registered/tagged/insured. I have a canal road I can ride them on year round. View attachment 146754View attachment 146755View attachment 146756

You're blessed. Living the life.

 

[Fast n' Furious]

That's a very interesting way of mounting the axiom rack and using that tab for the rear fender support.

Indeed. You have a sound eye. I sooo agreed and now I post the 'Axiom Fat-Rack/ Fender and Stays' upgrades.

 

[Fast n' Furious]

Rains providing time to locate odds and ends and wrestle the Devil in details, so I'm sharing some rough photos.
In front, replaced the stock SS and Rubber 'P' clamps w/ SKS stay (plastic) clamps and titanium fasteners.

Eliminated 70gms of weight and the 'Manitou' logo (quite elegant with it's 3D colors) is no longer hidden.
Awaiting more Portland Design stay clips for the front. A very nice product - so far. Maybe next I'd have one milled outta a small chunk of alloy - but their plastic interface looks most correct to me.
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I back into stuff.
So my tire making first contact (my bumper) not my fender, is a MUST for me.
Quick rant: If this was a car and every time I backed wheels to curb, first that hit was the fender ???
Unlike the 4.5" of 18psi blimp tires, that can 'do the boing - boing' and hang tough slam dancing, one 'fender encounter' with an electric gate will convinced anyone rational it's not the Sacrificial Goat.
So 'losing it' - from making the same mistake again and again - I hacked 7" off and eliminated the chain cut-out.
On 12mile shake down cruise my chain never touched fender. I have 0.425 (min.) clearance in the largest gear.
While I could cut the area out - even leave a tab at the end to fasten the right side - if there's a reason too, I can't see it.
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Eliminated: one SS fender stay (& it's fasteners); the entire Axiom's steel extension bracket assembly; the SKS 'multi-stay' clip & SS fasteners.
I weighed 205gms more before than after, not including the 7" of SKS plastic I trashed without weighing.

The Portland Design Works alloy safety tabs are light, w/ improved adjustment length.
The screw lock's a better design and they have a bend point for side-to-side angle flex built into the plastic part.
I've ordered a few more to install on the front and have a couple spares on hand. So far I'm impressed. They don't brag their stuff up enough.
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For the seat stay bridge fender mount I used a Honjo fastener w/ it's brass backing plate.
It feels (and weighs) like a Snap-On tool. The chrome's deep and it's beautifully crafted, but (1) using washers, the fender bolts are too short for thicker plastic fenders, (2) the nuts supplied reduce clearance, and (3), on the inside, neither the nuts nor washers fit the concave curvature of the plate.
Hey. Maybe tap the plate's holes and dump the nuts ? Such a Loctite fan, what do I know ? One thing's titanium fasteners are 55% steel wt.

Now, fender is firmly attached to the chain-stay w/ no 'buzz', resonate/ rattles.
By offsetting fender attachment holes at the bottom (virtually invisible), zip-ties can attach at the chain stay's 'braze on' 'cable/ wiring fastener' (innermost) points. WARNING. You try this, better have a geometrical 'minds eye', measuring and visualizing over and over before boring holes. Maybe it's just me. Mia Culpa, I'm new at this, but my fender aligned dead-on; the zips were tightened, the accurately drilled holes were correct and it snugged up tightly without any 'deforming'.
Awaiting 3mm and 5mm silicone (insulation) for fender contact points, to finish the job - no slip/ vibration.
I could get weird and calculate the sonic vibration potential over non-suspended area of ABS; come up with some hard facts - and nobody'd care.
Better pedantic: Harmonic frequencies resonate between (firmly attached) points - and not beyond.
That statement (published and reviewed) accompanies a sum, parameters and (attenuation) limits for alloy ... not for plastic which given the variations in composite reinforcements would be intellectually honest to do so.
Suffice: My rear fenders are quieter than the wires slapping.
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Axiom rack's now moved back/ and lowered about 1" respectively.
Whereas it was 'the last hole on the rack set to the first hole on the frame', it's now 'the first hole on the rack to the last hole on frame'.

Both sides of fender are fully elegantly attached.

Now I'm adding some weight.

Wrapping Leh's 'Distressed Bison' on the Jones' bar's grip-points.
Still lighter than stock Moloko's - or my choice of ti bars . I'd recommend self-installing only to those (w/ 'gorilla-grip' hands and) with experience in leatherwork. Seamanship cred, like 'wrapping harpoons' is also a plus !!!

Regardless videos, I cheated using contact cement under the starting wrap points.
I imagine (what this stuff's made for) wrapping bicycle drop bars is much easier. I don't get to use end plugs and have four sections that need to be tight, to muscle the WW around.
I hid the display switch wires under the left, front wrap - the plan from the outset.
Wiring/ hydraulics' are right where I want them.

Fishing rod holder's ultralight, minimalist, under 3oz, though the SS 'P' clips are up for replacement. Black bolts and washers are also ti.

My thanks to Watt Wagons, their invisible build team and forum contributors. Kicked me off right - or right where I got it.
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I can wait to tweak the programing - anticipate mid-2023.
Not sure what happened, but the suggestion a member made that 'the server went down' sounds reasonable.
Meanwhile, this Bike is blazing fast - unusably so in Sports Modes. A masterpiece exceeded my expectations.
Sorry for poor photos/ grime.

Ride on,

Fn'F

 

[Deacon Blues]

That is one custom ride!

 

[Fast n' Furious]

Thanks !! A pursuit that keeps my mind active - it beats Sudoku and is less risk or stressful than derivatives day-trading.
Never imagined the vintage look of Earth-tones on raw metal. I just saw silver/ grey.
(It being October in Boston) WattWagons had 5.5" snow-meats scheduled. I requested a little narrower - sand being my max conditions.
They offered the Gum-walls (from a past build experience) & recommending the look.
Trusting the WattWagons crew - *FN1 - to create with free license, I said 'Yes, why not?'
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Some flaws in one side of the distressed Bison Hide, I informed Leh - another fine American Company, down Texas' way.
The proprietor responded they were immediately sending an entire new set.
These wraps are outstanding. Would be really amazing on a 35lb Road Bike.
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Doing some pre-dawn rides (Halibut season's here in two weeks), 'CA Legal' requires lights in the rear. My preference is the little cheapies that plug into a 1/8 - 1/4" hole and use watch batteries.
Run for months of my night-work and if they die, fall off or get stolen who cares?
Plug right into my other Axion Rack's rear plate. Weigh zilch, they seem to have disappeared from the market.
Seatpost mounts won't work w/ KINEKT.
The Supernovas are nice, just not external wires - wound on my rack, etc., or that they require 50mm mounting holes and I'd have to drill the back plate (since 80mm is the standard). I may use an 18650, 6v battery pack, for a clean, 'lowest possible weight', quickly detachable installation.
In that regard I've ordered a few 18650 (5V 1A output) cases, and already have the ultimate minimalistic clips that snap right on, or off the Axiom's tubes.
Bypass the circuitry, wire in series I've got 2000ma @ 6 - 7.2v w/ a simple plug in.
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Other improvements contemplated: upgrading to a 52T ring gear. We'll see after the programming cables are in.
A USB output from the battery. I have the micro modules. Where to mount it?
Left side bar-end mirror, probably a 60mm Oberon Streetfighter (w/ lightening holes drilled in the billet and 3/4 of the 'collet's' bulk cut completely off).
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Customize or compromise.
Rainy and cold, I spend (at least) a dedicated hour with each of 'my pets'; adorations existing by my largesse.
A prerequisite, 'representing with integrity and veracity' is part of the contract we keep.
Not waxing poetic, my experiences make me thankful for opportunities to 'right or wrong', express myself, blunder along, my own destiny.
Certainly beats building homie's pyramids !!!
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I wonder what Rome's doing?

Paul

FN1: I, who spent a year+, and a lot of cash figuring out the Domino on my other machine, full well knew the complications w/ that throttle/ shifters interfacing, kept mum and let them figure it out. This domino install (a first for WW) required >24hrs for them to figure out (that as I had concluded, 'only the Archer will work', and they dug one up for $250.00, complete.

 

[Fast n' Furious]

That's a very interesting way of mounting the axiom rack and using that tab for the rear fender support.

Not anymore, and I lost nearly 1/2 lb of junk - including one fender stay and several inches of excess fender

 

[Fast n' Furious]

Rome, the Q factor is the distance between the two pedals on a bike. On an ebike the closer the pedals are to each other the better.
On my UC Pro the Q factor is huge, with the addition of Bafang Fat bike dished spider and crank arms.
I was using clip-less pedals (Shimano), but the wide Q factor was causing knee and hip pain, so I've gone back to flat pedals, which work just fine.

F&F, I did go with the 48t front ring, because Pushkar advised against going larger. I would have preferred a 50t ring, though. Let us know how the 50t works out for you.

The 50T is awesome. A 52 will be even better and from what I see on other machines, the derailleur angle should still be within limitations using the stock (136 link ???) chain in low (40t) gear, but running a cassette geared bigger than 40t I think would require an additional link set.
Rather than splice one link in, adding a whole new section (completely replacing the present spliced in extension) a link longer.
Drawback, you'll waste a new chain creating the new length extension. Turns into a big plus when your chain wears out and you have enough spare to replace 6 more chains. I'm thinking the chain and DT components are fine - so far, closing on 500miles. Learning curve shifting where there's never a crunch - w/ the Archer - takes focus and practice to perfect. 'Second Nature' shifting ability is elusive.
My thanks to all the folks wrecking stuff (my kind of people). I show respect for the costs they paid finding out with this BIG Power shredding gears. Regardless how good you get, the chain's still gonna stretch. It should be the first to go - if gears are pampered (which reminds me, I have to check the stretch).
I still intend to hot-wax (actually 'hot-PTFE/ Paraffin coat') my next chain, anticipated in another 500 miles.
I could care less it's faster. It's for the gears. Chain stretch is inevitable as taxes.
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Lets pause for a prayer:
Hey Pushkar! I've still got the cash stashed for an IGH.
I promise not to kill it (like I've done so many high-performance transmissions) or demand satisfaction, crying a river of vitriol when it disintegrates (within the warranty) due to my ill-advised my excesses.
In the name of whatever it takes - Amen
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I know it's a project on-the-table. I'd risk it w/ my chain-drive DT I can re-install. No 'fear of wrenches (or laser alignment guides) here.
Meanwhile, I must buy an extra chain to make splices. Not adding that bad chunk back in the mix to ruin my cogs and ring.

Fn'F

 

[Fast n' Furious]

Is it what Deacon Blues was saying about Q factor? I'm still lost in Q.
I put gold kmc chain 118 link ebike specific on my Bafang with Sram 11 speed drivetrain and it jumps on the 11t .
So I reached out to the dealer service. They said my bike' s chain requires 122 links.
Add a couple links.

This' ( a Stone) for you.
These titanium washers are a must for good seating and corrosion resistance from Electrolysis.
SS washers on Titanium fasteners'll rust and rot out.
Same's true with your nuts. No weak (valance) nuts allowed.
These titanium nuts work for me.
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Knowing the size of your bolt's shaft, 'washer' size is easily dialed in.
Size and mass of the nuts is very important. The length and pitch - designating depth and speed of penetration - dictate the thickness required for pounding forces that can get brutal !!! While for more gentle part's banging applications, less mass or depth of insert to the nuts is required.

Hope this helps !!!

Fn'F

Here's one reliable company: reasonably priced Titanium nuts and washers
And this is who I buy my ti washers from. Again very reliable.
Spend a Benjamin, you'll get all you need and spares for days.
Remember, ti washers crush more than steel. So, keep a bit light on torque. Putting a fastener on forever, best there is.
Apologize not answering this query sooner.
The EU guys are selling the same stuff. LOl. LOL. LOL.

Regards ....................... Fn'F

Fn'F

 

[Deacon Blues]

Good info, Fn'F.

I've taken the great leap into the unknown with my UC Pro.....
As soon as my first ride I realize the bike was too big for me. My favorite local bike shop mechanic, when he was doing some work with the cross chaining, thought the bike was sized more like a large than a medium.
Stand over height has always been a problem for me. I can do it, but it's very close to being painful.
I've been mulling over a solution and yesterday I pulled the trigger on a (hopeful) fix.
This is one of those plans that look reasonable when I'm in the planning stages, but could end up being a costly, dumb idea.

So, what have I done? I've decided to swap out the stock 27.5" wheels with 26" carbon wheels from Nextie. I figure it will give me a whole inch more stand over height, which is all I'll need. Strangely, when riding the bike the seat/handlebar/pedal arrangement is very good. It's just the stand over height that sucks.

So far:
1. I'm ready to order the complete front wheel and rim for the back wheel from Nextie.
2. Since Nextie can't get a 170mm rear hub, I've ordered the hub from a source in the UK and will have a local wheel builder build a wheel for me with the hub and
Nextie rim.
3. I've 150mm pedals from biktrix.
4. I've ordered 26x2.30 Continental eRuban tires from Bike24 in Germany.
My main concern is the 26" wheels/tires will look stupid on the bike. I guess I won't know for sure until I get everything swapped over.

I also may order a 52 tooth front ring. Fn'F, where did you order the 50 tooth ring from?

 

[Fast n' Furious]

For me this is a new skill. I've been educating myself, fine tuning and doing 10 - 15 milers.
Perfecting my low speed skills, I only recently discovered (running at 18psi) I can climb city curbs like nothing !

Fenders, rack and stays are now proper. Silicone pads under fittings, zero rattles or vibration. WOW this bike is quiet !!! Alerted me to some 'cable slap' chatter (fixed). Now I only hear the whirring Ultra. I was so fanatical about reaching that quiet place, even my bungies don't slap.

Black alloy PDW clips and reinforced plastic (fork) 'C' fasteners + all ti bolts and washers - atill have a few nuts to replace.
Overriding rules: Lighter than before, always Stronger and Faster has followed. How you like the wire cages now, eh?

A fun Journey building the perfect beast.

Next up's a titanium 70mm stem. I'll stick with the present type. Present 80mm, a 70 and a 60mm included will be less expensive than one from 'resellers' - with the same product and a slight alteration ordered to make it look different. I can order 200 pieces on Alibaba (with any like changes) for less than $50 ea.
Also, I must try the 2.5" rise Jones Loop-Bars - moved down in the headset stack - that're sitting in my closet.
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Hey Rome, here's the source for titanium nuts and bolts: best price for ti fasteners.
I spend $100 on roughly $1000 of titanium (from European resellers selling the same product).
Just ordered a double up cuz Western (USA included) bloc will soon stop such 'Consumer Level' imports - to keep their businessmen's money rolling in. Thinking ahead; standard sizes; stock up. I'm set.
My next build could well be a 55lb (titanium framed) 1000 -- 1500w, 125n.m. Hub-drive.
My 53lb Alloy, Hub Drive w/ 100n.m. roasting 1000watts is pretty hot. I'm so over hidden batteries.

More to come ...

Fn'F

 

[Deacon Blues]

Is your 52t ring a Wolf Tooth? I'm considering going with a 52t when I install my 26" wheels/tires .

 

[Fast n' Furious]

Up for contrary suggestions, but I'm over toting 4lb Abus (+1lb cradle).
10 years back, I was gifted a tricked out Sugar II Mtn. Bike and found out that cables cut real easy, preventing nothing (really liked that bike too).
I was so mad I dumped the entire biking scene for 6 years.
Knowing I park by the water - sometimes 2 - 500'+ away - not watching behind me, I could look back after a few casts and Gumbo's gone - you ain't seen an old man close 500' distance 'till you see me angry, but the cheesy alarm in the ABUS can't be heard 50' on a slightly windy day when it goes 'tweet. tweet. tweet. Must have had to meet German 'noise regulations' or something.
I need a BIG, NOISY alarm (and a small cable lock) that if the bike's moved will alert all concerned.
I've been searching. I want something I can detach. LOUD (120db+) Horns are HEAVY.
Juiced has a horn with both features - $65.00 + Tax and Shipping. Look further, they're selling the same item on Aliexpress for $30.00 & free shipping.
Both a loud horn and a motion detection alarm w/ remote, recently, I heard one on a Juiced bike. Impressive.
Looks like it can attach via a Go-Pro fitting - or possibly w/ a stopper-nut on a threaded shaft to a badge mount standoff on the headtube ???
Since they won't state it, means the weight's TOO MUCH, but No Worries. I'll weigh it and do a post to make sure Google's web-crawlers catch it.
Charges by USB too.
I ordered without lights and there's a 'snipped' cable at the splitter junction.

View attachment 151819 Haven't tested those (short as hell) leads yet. Not one to bother WW (or anyone) with queries if I can test and find out.
Would be useful to have a USB charging port in my circuit.

 

[Deacon Blues]

I have that horn on my UC Pro.
I don't use the alarm but I like the horn....nice and loud.
One negative about this horn is the battery goes flat quickly, even when not being used much.

 

[Fast n' Furious]

I have that horn on my UC Pro.
I don't use the alarm but I like the horn....nice and loud.
One negative about this horn is the battery goes flat quickly, even when not being used much.

How did you mount it?
In your case, you have hardwired lighting that could be tapped to keep on charge and use (fully charged) internals as back-up.
Are your lights 6 or 12v model?
A reviewer said: Other people have said that this horn just quit on them after a short period of time, mine did too. I spent some time trouble shooting it and I found the problem is the battery. It seems to indicate a charge, but it doesn't charge. Plugging it in to charge the light will go from red to blue, but then it quickly discharges and can't operate the horn.
The battery pack is not a common one, 7.4V 780mah hour. It's not one that's available, because they made it themselves. It's a pair of 3.7v flat batteries in series, giving the 7.4V. I made my own pack out of a pair of AAA size 3.7 batteries in series, and now it's charging and operating properly.
The batteries in these units are junk but replacing it should get them working again."
No word on if those "AAA size 3.7 batteries" fit inside the housing. If not, alarm can be shut of yanking wires to battery pack and it's a contraption.
One reviewer claims it's made of steel. Manufacturer says alloy. I laugh at myself; enamored by titanium, yet incongruously craving plastic accessories? *
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My take: While I have doubts "they made it themselves", several bad reviews indicate symptoms (ie: sound level decreasing over time) of one of the two-cell battery pack quickly going bad - low voltage and not taking a full charge.
It's probably a digital camera battery (3/7v x 800mAh) or the type in remote controls. Not cheap ($15 -- $20 ea.) aftermarket.
I'm glad it can be disassembled.


* My CT is frontal weight-biased. The center of gravity (slightly abaft of the frame's center, right at the motor base) was neutral using alloy Loop Bars. Just adding Buffalo hide wraps and moving the display out front altered that and actually made my handling at very low speeds a bit better. It's noticeably different to me - likely because of my 140lb weight with bike stripped down to > 62lbs. Average rider's being 180lb x 72lbs. I know the feel of that difference on shopping day. lol

Amazed how small changes make such noticeable differences in the feel, this bike's cockpit feels a bit long to me. Could be my bar ends are a little too high. I note (photos) WW's Moloko's angle is rather a lot.

 

[Deacon Blues]

I mounted the horn to the handlebar. Honestly, I'd rather have a cheap 'ring-ring' bell. No great loss if the battery packs it in.

 

[Fast n' Furious]

is that the 48V 17.5Ah battery? Did you get one or two?

I wanted two batteries, but I didn't realize WW was going to mount the second battery on the top tube, which would make it impossible for me to step forward off the pedals, so I ended up taking off the battery and mounting plate.
With my bike/rear rack the mounting plate fits perfectly. It's almost like the rack was made so the mounting plate would fit. I plan, if I end up keeping the bike, to install the mounting plate on the rear rack, so I can carry the extra battery on the rack. It would even be locked in place.
So far I've only had one ride (110km) where I need more than one battery, but I'd like to do more longer rides in the future.

Presently, my Archer shifter is just sitting my bike parts drawer(s). I may put it on the UC Pro this winter.

Show a pic of that rack for me?
I'm still contemplating a 14S 3P of 5000ma 21700's, 25amp Samsung 50S's - for a 60amp capable Sports Pack.
Not that 21700's stay stronger longer
I see those batteries run @ 20amps continuous (3400watts to us @ 52v) and are pretty invincible.
21700's are shielded under S-Wrap using the slide on our mounting plate.
70gms ea.

 

[Deacon Blues]

Here's how I'd mount the battery holder on the rack.