Watt Wagons Scrambler Style Ebike

[BarnBoy]

Okay I found one with front suspension.

But I know I've seen an interview on EBR YouTube channel, how cargo ebike companies (it was either RadWagon or Tern) get that question a lot.
They said it's not good for stability, I wish I remembered which episode.

Hi @Timpo - I believe the reason for the instability in bikes like you show is that with the long backend, as the front fork compresses, the rake angle on the steering changes, thus marking the bike unstable....

 

[Ebiker33]

fs with belt will be a great fun bike. If tests go well then Q3 launch

That's exciting, Q3 isn't that far away, some might be tempted to hold fire and wait, especially if they already own a Ebike

 

[AdilDesai]

I do like the thought of WattWagons cargo bike.

But what about titanium frame + carbon belt + Ultra motor? Just like the original WattWagons?

In terms of suspension, I can't comment from experience, but I heard Kinect seatpost and stem work very well.

Is it really worth it to add engineering complexity by experimenting different suspension geometry to make it full suspension?
or would it make sense to just build a robust cargo bike and add Kinect seat post and stem?

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Probably. But @pushkar is building high end bikes. Unlike the scrambler, which to me looks like a me too add on to the WW line, a FS Cargo bike would be truly unique offering that no one else has.

 

[Zachdds]

Probably. But @pushkar is building high end bikes. Unlike the scrambler, which to me looks like a me too add on to the WW line, a FS Cargo bike would be truly unique offering that no one else has.

When you are building something that nobody else offers you have to ask yourself why. Are you the genius that has figured something out? Are you the fool doing something that others already know is a failed endeavor?

I love the idea of a belt drive full suspension that focuses on lightweight to be ridden off road, but just like with a full suspension cargo bike, is the belt truly the best idea or is it just creating more problems? In the end, building a prototype and testing it is the best way to figure it out.

 

[AdilDesai]

When you are building something that nobody else offers you have to ask yourself why. Are you the genius that has figured something out? Are you the fool doing something that others already know is a failed endeavor?

I love the idea of a belt drive full suspension that focuses on lightweight to be ridden off road, but just like with a full suspension cargo bike, is the belt truly the best idea or is it just creating more problems? In the end, building a prototype and testing it is the best way to figure it out.

Ha! I'm probably the fool. Never ask the consumer what they want; it stifles innovation.

 

[Ebiker33]

For those of you talking about a cargo Ebike, look how this guy pimped out his Rad Cargo Ebike

 

[BarnBoy]

I still don't understand.

The rake angle change will happen, whether you're riding a cargo bike or MTB.
In fact, your theory seems counterintuitive because longer the bike, less dip (less pitch) the bike will experience.

You're saying that longer the wheelbase, worse it is for stability while suspension fork compresses?

@Timpo i was only trying to share my experiences with adding front suspension to bikes that were not designed with proper head angles to compensate. Past life experiences....

You are absolutely correct that a longer back end will put less angle than a smaller wheel base. Simple geometry! Stability has to do with the trail or distance the tire contact patch is behind the point where the steering axis intersects the ground. Yes as the fork compresses dynamically the trail is reduced but comes back....

Factors that determine trail are tire diameter, frame head tube angle, fork axle to crown distance, and fork rake or offset. Bike designers realm....

I believe your question maybe because these bikes were designed with a fixed fork. You add all the cargo and body weight; and statically the bike angles are now different; thus steering and stability will be different than rigid fork Sorry mate, I am using my phone and really should be using a computer to write/contribute....

 

[BarnBoy]

yeah.. and I also think the spring rate might be the problem.

Some motorcycles have electronic suspension, but if you look at typical motorcycle owners manual, it actually tells you to adjust the preload depending on how much cargo / passenger you're carrying.

Exactly @Timpo! And look at the the photos you just shared, noticeably more rake! Again sorry for typing short hand....

And being a big guy with rollercoaster weight; spring preload is critical for fun rides....

 

[Cuz Vinny]

Another “Scrambler” style bike. Unfortunately it’s a hub motor but they are a work of art. I’ve seen one in person and pict don’t do it justice.

 

[BarnBoy]

View attachment 81002
Another “Scrambler” style bike. Unfortunately it’s a hub motor but they are a work of art. I’ve seen one in person and pict don’t do it justice.

That reminds me of this....
Ok you guys are getting me thinking this might be a fun Sunday Ride option if it will fit my big body.... (I hate you all! )
-BB

 

[flocknut]

 

[dunksalot]

Funny to see this thread...was just talking about this category with a friend as I've seen 2 of these in the past week. I'm not a fan of the cafe bike with banana seat. It did not last in the gas-powered world during the 70s as the more radical designs took over. I think a more chopper-inspired style will be a big hit...something part beach cruiser with a nod to steampunk and the electric Harley Davidson.

 

[onlineaddy]

All these styles that originated in the motorcycle world have been bastardized by ebike makers. Wish they had done some research before erroneously attributing their creations to these styles or their names.

 

[dunksalot]

I don't know what cafe ebike you're talking about, but the category in ebike industry have been altered quite a bit.

What ebikers call "Scrambler" or "Cafe Racer" are completely different.
Both of those have very rich history in motorcycle industry, but it's been quite a mish mash in ebike industry

Cafe Racer and Scrambler are both very well established categories.
If you go on YouTube, there are a lot of Cafe Racer and Scrambler enthusiasts channels.

Motocyclists have been calling this "Minibike"
Ebikers call this "Scrambler"

However, Scrambler is actually a completely different category

Ebikers call this "Cafe Racer"
Motorcyclists call this "Bobber" (or cruiser, it's hard to identify)

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In fact, Cafe Racer is a completely different category.

Thanks so much for taking the time to clarify. I originally thought the Scrambler was a Cafe. My interest is more Cafe Racer style.

 

[dunksalot]

All these styles that originated in the motorcycle world have been bastardized by ebike makers. Wish they had done some research before erroneously attributing their creations to these styles or their names.

Guilty as charged. I'll own that. I did search but not for the terminology. When looking up cafe ebike I got pics of scramblers and just assumed.

 

[onlineaddy]

Guilty as charged. I'll own that. I did search but not for the terminology. When looking up cafe ebike I got pics of scramblers and just assumed.

Oh, no worries. I wasn't criticizing you. Rather it really should be the responsibility of bike manufacturers to get the names right.

 

[Cuz Vinny]

My bike is nearing completion, I’ll post pics when it’s done.

 

[BarnBoy]

How about a Greaser Cafe ebike....
@Cuz Vinny - How soon until pics? You are such a teaser....
-BB

 

[Cuz Vinny]

How about a Greaser Cafe ebike....
@Cuz Vinny - How soon until pics? You are such a teaser....
-BB

Not until this weekend. Still waiting on a few parts.

 

[Cuz Vinny]

My Luna Little Bastard as I call it. New post with full review coming tomorrow with Pushkar’s permission.