Probably a wise move if you want to extend your Creo’s motor longevity. Heat is directly related to the loss of winding efficiency even if the motor is only temporarily overheated. Something like 50% reduction in mean time before failure for every 10°C over rated operating temperature. I don’t think the SLs are really intended for constant hill climbs.
Hmmm. I guess I will ask and you can give a guess. I've noticed a substantial range loss on the battery of that bike. The motor seems to still have more power than my Specialized. It always did have more power which I could tell when I was test riding the Creo. And just this week, the Creo was in for the remote button installation so I rode that other bike two days in a row. It still climbs easier than the Specialized. BUT as I note, its battery which use to approach about 50 miles on a charge now seems limited to about 30 miles. The bike is now approaching three years which means its battery might be aging (aren't we all - today's my birthday!!!).
My thoughts- In general if you damage or stress the windings of a motor the output of the motor decreases and the current draw increases for a given torque load. Perhaps it could be the battery is fine and the motor just puts more draw on it resulting in less useful range. I think people have the misperception that electric motors don’t degrade or fail over time however the insulation on stator windings on a BLDC motor gradually breakdown under stressful conditions. In theory the shop could test the motor by measuring the windings however I can’t see a bike mechanic doing so - they probably just think “wow it works great” but they’re not aware of the higher current draw. It could also be mechanical - perhaps increased friction from deranged bearings on the motor shaft. Again the shop could test that *if* they were given the right training, tools and procedures.
Thanks, much for the reply and thoughts. But if there's a chance of "wearing" the windings, I will NOT subject the Creo to that abuse. Of course, unknowingly I might have already done that!
at that time, I could not tune the motor. I rode excessively fast, too. That made me buy a spare battery soon. Over the time, Specialized upgraded the Vado electronics to the 2020 version, and I could adjust assistance levels. I gained experience, and the range of my Vado has greatly increased.
Stefan,
I think the Range Extender will be a great help for me.
nice !! south park is a great climb. there are lots of nice combos in there that you can connect it to also, loops of varying length. it’s been a while since i did it - it gets a little hot for me and my damaged heart up there in the summer. i did this nice 31 mile loop including south park and grizzly in april on my Creo SL. 126wh used, average assistance 31%, could probably get that down to 15-20% these days. but south park is always going to be a “motor on” climb! the SL bikes are great for perfectly balancing motor and human contribution.Stefan,
I think you are absolutely correct. The Range Calculator probably needs another one or two data fields for age and general physical condition. I started this thread because of my initial disappointment with my battery results on my first challenging ride up Mt. Diablo. After reading all of the following posts, I actually feel very good about the bike and the battery--they are both just fine, but I need improvement!!
Yesterday I did a ride in the Berkeley, CA hills that included an "infamous" climb. It's a road in Tilden Park called South Park Drive. Here's a description:
"South Park Dr gains 730′ in 1.4 miles up to Grizzly Peak Blvd; it’s a steep stair step climb! The first section begins with grades of 6-8%, at Big Springs the road tilts up a bit more with grades of 10-14%. It eases up for a short stretch around Laurel and jumps back up again to 11-13% grades around Owl. The road continues with steeper grades of 13-15% all the way up to the gate at Grizzly Peak. The climb up this quiet road with minimal traffic is a slug fest!"
My whole ride was 9 miles, 54 minutes, 1,269' elevation gained, 167.00wh consumption, 221.84% support level. Of course I was at 100% for most of South Park Drive, and in the lowest gear. What I learned from this ride is that I can do almost any climb on this bike, and that's good news to me. My previous bike with the huge battery and the Bafang BBS02 motor made a climb like this look easy. While I was working my tail off doing this on the Vado, I was pleased that I could do it at all, given how much less power it has compared to the Bafang. Bottom line: I love my new Vado SL 5.0!
By the way, I tried Stefan's Mission Control Profile--35/70, 70/85, 100/100--and it worked very well. With that Sport setting I rarely needed Turbo (except S Park Drive, of course).
I really appreciate all of the feedback you guys offered me here. Thank you.
John
I am not as technical as some but have had good results with a 5.0 SL gradually lowering the assist levels using the Mission Control App. Stephan is an expert here but the net result for me, as I have slowly become a bit stronger is no range anxiety thanks to less demand on the battery. Most recent ride was 40 miles, 2277 ft of climbing and 133 watt/Hrs used or about 1/3 of the battery capacity. It was a hard ride and I was tired and sore next day but with the lower settings in Mission Control I had plenty of headroom and could have asked for more from the bike if I couldn't continue to contribute as much. I love this bike because it allows me to set the parameters and as a result I am getting a little stronger. Im a bit lighter but not the strongest rider and well into the Medicare years. I think as you continue and with some experimentation using Mission Control you can make your ride and save the $450.
Scott,
Hi John it’s a Specialized app called RIDE. I can’t remember how I found it but it’s available on the App Store and it does provide some additional information that Mission Control doesn’t. I take it all with a grain of salt but I have enjoyed the extra info about power and battery usage.
mschwett is correct--Marin Ave was originally planned to have a funicular on it. I don't know enough Berkeley history to know it it ever happened. I do know that there were several trolley lines in the flatter parts of Berkeley, below the very steep hills.
Thanks, Scott. I'll download RIDE. Do you know if you can run it, Mission Control and RideWithGPS all at the same time?
bluetooth devices typically can’t connect to more than one other device, so i doubt you can connect to the bike in both mission and ride. however, rideWithGPS doesn’t connect to the bike with bluetooth, it only uses GPS, so you can run it (and strava and whatever else you want) that doesn’t read the bike sensors directly.
I ride thru Mt Tam with 6000 elevation and cover 65 miles. It is supercharger2 with 2X500Wh batteries.
nice bike! ... but a totally different beast than the Vado SL, at twice the weight and 3x the battery capacity
That is exactly what I do. Yes
