Turbo Creo SL Comp carbon EVO vs Canyon Grail:ON CF 7 (this or that?)

[Brew]

Congrats on your new bike, nice color
Made a few changes on mine, got rid of the dropper, new wheels with road tires 32mm I think, a 11-32 rear cassette and a range extender.

If you ever start hearing a clicking noise when cranking away let me know. I have a fix.

 

[mstepan44]

In reading forum comments, it seems that the dropper gets little love; I’ll keep that in mind as I put miles on my bike. Given your tire switch, I’m guessing you’re using the bike primarily on paved roads. I‘m thinking asphalt will be more in the minority for me. I’m taking it out today for my first big ride (waiting for the sun to rise). Btw, ur garage looks insane, lotsa fun toys!

 

[Brew]

Yeah primarily on the road, but can easily switch back to the gravel set when required. It's really a great bike for me, makes me feel like I'm back in my 30s and 40s again. Went out for a 25 mile ride yesterday and averaged over 23mph with 1500 ft of climbing and still had 75% left between the two batteries. That's my basement btw, this is my garage lol.

 

[jodi2]

I rode my Creo Evo the first weeks with the dropper and almost never used it. The few times I used it, I was disappointed from the short travel. And when I needed the dropper to feel safe in really tough downhills, I still missed a (real) suspension fork, stronger brakes/bigger discs, a wider and straight handle bar and wider tires (in that order). I removed it after less than a month.
This summer I sold my MTBs, so I wanted the Creo to be a little bit more "rough". I had leftover a 105mm dropper post and installed it. It fulfills the duties of a dropper post much better with twice as much travel. But the rest is the same, it still doesn't feel very safe on challenging downhills without the rest of the "real MTB" components. But maybe this is different for a very light rider.
Maybe I'll leave it like this for winter and swap back in spring.

But I can recommend a seat post with much more comfort than normal ones and still very light and still a fair price, well suited for a carbon Creo! ERGON CF Allroad Pro Carbon or Canyon VCLS CF 2.0 with two different options for setback range/angle (afaik they are identical). Around 220g and 200€ here.

 

[Alaskan]

I have the Cannondale Topstone Neo Carbon 3 and did a 48 mile 5,000 mountain route with a good buddy a while back. The Cannondale has 47mm WTB Tires, tubeless, Bosch gen 4 speed motor with 500 watt battery (plus a fully rigged spare with cover). My friend rode his Creo Expert and frankly, I could pull away from him with ease at any grade. He is a former road pro road racer, ten years my junior and fit as a fiddle. I used all of one battery and needed the second one to go the final 4 miles. He has the bottle range extender and used his main battery and half of the extender. At the end of the ride he was slightly envious of my extra torque and battery range, but still very happy with his bike.

 

[mstepan44]

Your ride looks amazing, what a treat! Funny, I had the Cannondale Neo in my final 3 of candidates (and I have a lefty Bad Boy 2 urban bike in my stable, so, I’m well familiar and a fan of their bikes). If I were to be doing only gravel I would have probably landed on the Neo. I hear what ur saying about the Creo not having the oomph of the Neo, that was my suspicion as well. I just got back fr my debut ride, only one big climb (Paris Mtn near Greenville), little more than two mile duration, averaging 8% grade, max gr prob 15%. My Creo cruised this climb, not really breaking a sweat, so I don’t think Western NC (even with the slightly bigger grades) will be daunting. Altho, I’m more or less resigning myself to go bigger than my stock 38mm tires, given the roads I’ll be on are a mix of gravel & asphalt.

For your area, given the bikes I did some deep dives on, the Neo sounds superb. By the way, based on ur friend’s background, I’d love to hear his impression of the bike (Creo) if he’s so inclined. I’m guessing he’s pushing the upper bounds of this bike.

 

[jodi2]

@Alaskan Anything else than this experience would be a surpirse, it's simly physics. The question is not, if a more heavier powerful motor+battery is faster, but where and when do you really need it. For me this is the case for example for every day commuting or daily purposes in normal clothes. But not for sprtive free time rides with friends. The great thing is that ebikes make it easy to bring different fitness levels but also different ebike power together.
Try next time your fit friend on a gravel bike without any motor and see what support you really need, you will be suprised (if you not already tried that out...). You will leave him behind in Eco with the Topstone and even with you on the Creo level 1 will be enough to stay equal with him. Where is the need for me motor power?

 

[SwiftySanders]

Appreciate ur input. I did take the Creo for a spin, going up a fairly steep incline (20 degree slope) but the hill was only a 100 yards long; and, not surprisingly, the Creo didn't have any problem there. The hills I'll be doing in NC are a lot more serious. I have (and continue) to hear positve feedback on the Creo. Altho the guys at the Specialized shop were cool, I don't think they'll let me do a full day trial.

I live in NYC and go up hills just fine with the Blue Turbo Creo SL Comp Carbon EVO. There is a hill on the hudson path just before 72nd street. I was able to handle that pretty well. I also ride up the hill that starts at 110/ACP in central park pretty easily in the default mode.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Where is the need for m(or)e motor power?

Some of us Jodi are ailing. For example, my Vado SL is adequate for most of my gravel group rides. However, riding with competing cyclists at the racing speed requires me to take the Speed-Vado 5.0 for such a ride. Think of a 100 km ride in rough terrain with the moving time below 4 hours. You could be strong enough; I am certainly not.

Riding at the gravel racing speed. Average speed 26.2 km/h. Speed Vado 5.0 (full power e-bike).

Riding at a more relaxed speed. Average speed of 20.5 km/h. Vado SL 4.0. Multiple Range Extenders.

 

[jodi2]

And do you think your need for extra support and even more riding this way with (semi?) expert riders is a usual and tipical use case for the SL drive?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

And do you think your need for extra support and even more riding this way with (semi?) expert riders is a usual and tipical use case for the SL drive?

Think of Creo EVO Carbon. That e-bike could be ridden by any average gravel cyclist with minimum extra assistance to match the expert speed. Of course without the 25 km/h restriction. Because both Creo Evo and Topstone Neo are gravel e-bikes.
What you have overlooked both Alaskan and I are not healthy people. Who on earth would need an e-bike, were they healthy and strong?

 

[jodi2]

You're right that I don't know about Alaskan's situation. But if he forces even a healthy and very fit rider to squeeze the maximum out of his SL drive, it's clear that he could have used a fraction of the power to stay equal with his frtiend without support. And even with "only" a Creo still would have been faster than him without support.

For me motor support is to allow someone to do tours in length or height, he/she could'nt do without. Or to keep up with faster riders who don't use motor support. I don't see the need for "nuclear armament" on both sides... ;-)
But I've got the feeling, that Alaskan does't feel that need either. He just wanted to point out that there's quite some power delta between SL and normale drives, what is absolutely true!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

You're right that I don't know about Alaskan's situation. But if he forces even a healthy and very fit rider to squeeze the maximum out of his SL drive, it's clear that he could have used a fraction of the power to stay equal with his frtiend without support. And even with "only" a Creo still would have been faster than him without support.

For me motor support is to allow someone to do tours in length or height, he/she could'nt do without. Or to keep up with faster riders who don't use motor support. I don't see the need for "nuclear armament" on both sides... ;-)
But I've got the feeling, that Alaskan does't feel that need either. He just wanted to point out that there's quite some power delta between SL and normale drives, what is absolutely true!

That's correct.

Or to keep up with faster riders who don't use motor support.

That's the point. Even 100% SL power was not sufficient for me during the last Sunday ride at times. While 60% of full-power Vado was something the SL cannot achieve.
A friend of mine, #10 of the most demanding 230 km (2022) Mazovian gravel race said: "You Stefan are not participating in the race; you take no profit from it; everybody knows you are electrically assisted; so you are not cheating anyone and there is no issue in it".

My brother Jacek (right) riding the full power Trance E+ was a "liaison rider" to facilitate communication between two groups riding apart. He took the power of his e-bike as a helpful advantage.

On the fast ride, I was accompanied by the #6 of the same race, and he was as kind as to carry my heavy e-bike over dilapidated gangways!

The #6 being so helpful!

Now, all the gravel rides here involve no serious hills. Were I living in the mountains, I would certainly go for a full power gravel e-bike and probably swapped the chainring for a smaller one.

 

[jodi2]

So ebikers are not only cheaters but, even more obstacles slowong down the best riders in the race?
That what the usual ebike haters here in Germany would say... ;-)

I'm not sure if you need more power, that this is escpecially uphill. On my tours with much faster and lighter riders I usually get along in the flats without much motor support (also there's is no support over 25km/h...) but uphill I'm chanceless. But there even 25% SL support is enough to stay equal, with 50% I (would...) leave them all behind.

>Who on earth would need an e-bike, were they healthy and strong?

I don't think that you wanted to insult me... ;-) But maybe you underestimate from you point of view the number of more or less healthy ebikers. In Germany at least 70% of all ebikers do not really need the motor support. It's just comfort/lazyness or to increase bike usage and distances. What is a very good thing compared to more often sitting on the couch or using the car.... But ebikers who really need the motor, maybe 15%. And who really really need/depend on it maybe 5%.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

It was not my intention to insult you Jodi! Sorry if you felt so.
Just want to say were I healthy, I would probably ride a Specialized Diverge STR by now
A mate asked me yesterday: "So when will you come to our rides with a proper gravel e-bike Stefan?" and I answered: "Why should one need a Creo if they ride a good Vado SL? Proper looks?"

 

[JimiC]

Congrats on your new bike, nice color
Made a few changes on mine, got rid of the dropper, new wheels with road tires 32mm I think, a 11-32 rear cassette and a range extender.

If you ever start hearing a clicking noise when cranking away let me know. I have a fix.

I am a recent owner of a Creo Comp Carbon, and on my first extended ride I had.a clicking I could hear and feel from the engine/BB area. It was concerning me on a new bike, but it went away after about 10 miles. Would love to hear what you found to be the cause.

 

[kahn]

I am a recent owner of a Creo Comp Carbon, and on my first extended ride I had.a clicking I could hear and feel from the engine/BB area. It was concerning me on a new bike, but it went away after about 10 miles. Would love to hear what you found to be the cause.

I get some kind of noise or feeling when pedaling my Creo. But not all the time. it just happens and if I pause pedaling, and then restart, it is as though I have the motor, crank or whatever go back into its appropriate "whatever" and the noise/feeling goes away. I might have to do this once to twice until the "problem" clears. If I pause again, it might or might not return. I guess it just depends on what is out of whack and if it goes back into rhythm???? Usually stop pedaling and a brief coast and resume pedaling will do it.

 

[Brew]

I get some kind of noise or feeling when pedaling my Creo. But not all the time. it just happens and if I pause pedaling, and then restart, it is as though I have the motor, crank or whatever go back into its appropriate "whatever" and the noise/feeling goes away. I might have to do this once to twice until the "problem" clears. If I pause again, it might or might not return. I guess it just depends on what is out of whack and if it goes back into rhythm???? Usually stop pedaling and a brief coast and resume pedaling will do it.

They replaced the motor on mine and the sound came back after a 100 miles or so. I finally traced it to the spline being loose on the chainring to BB connection. you could actually giggle the chain ring. I retourqed the little pinch bolt and it went away. I plan to take it off this winter, clean and put waterproff grease on it and retourqe it.

 

[kahn]

They replaced the motor on mine and the sound came back after a 100 miles or so. I finally traced it to the spline being loose on the chainring to BB connection. you could actually giggle the chain ring. I retourqed the little pinch bolt and it went away. I plan to take it off this winter, clean and put waterproff grease on it and retourqe it.

Showing my mechanical skills or NOT.

What is the "little pinch bolt"? Is it that little bolt showing through the notch in your attachment?

 

[Brew]

Yes that was what I tightened up. Mine was somewhat loose.