Turbo Creo 2 Comp E5 (aluminum) is out, is a Vado SL 2 next?

Thanks @jabberwocky , that is way too techie for me. I did check the other manufacturers you mentioned to remind myself. Canyon makes a couple of models in a 2XS, which is what I would need, but they are sold out, of course. Pretty much all their XS models are, which to me says they aren't making enough. The Cannondale is a possibility; I do think the standover would work, but the top tube seems too long. It's probably sized for more typical male dimensions of shorter legs + longer reach. I will measure the top tube on my Trek that's on the trainer, but I am not optimistic about that one. Plus, black would be my least-preferred color in the world for a bike. Silly, perhaps, but that's a lot of bucks to drop on a bike I don't like the color of. :rolleyes:

Yeah, the small Cannondale has an almost 55cm eff tt despite its smaller standover (which is 15mm longer than my 50cm motobecane, and I'm 4" taller than you). Maybe they are speccing really short stems, but I suspect its like you said, sized for longer torsos. I also think its designed to be super racey geometry.

Another rabbit hole to consider (though unrealistic unless you really want a project) is an import chinese carbon frame. There are some options for carbon frames that use the Bafang M800/M820, and smaller sizes actually tend to exist. Chinertown is the forum for people who do that sort of thing (see their ebike frames and builds forum). I helped a friend import and build up a (non-electric) Dengfu a while back and the frame was surprisingly good quality with custom paint, and as far as I know she ran that bike for several years. But yeah, figuring out whats available, who is a reputable dealer, handling ordering and communication and such is a huge project just by itself, and thats before you even get the frame in hand. TSDZ2B is puppies and rainbows in comparison. :p
 
@Deacon Blues I don't currently have a road bike that would be worth converting. I do have a Trek Pilot WSD, but it's a 2007, with an old triple crank, rim brakes, etc. from that era. It's in pretty rough shape and is permanently set up on my smart trainer. So, I'd have to buy a new analog road bike, then have it converted to "e". Not saying I wouldn't consider that, but that opens up a whole new kettle of worms, as I haven't shopped for a road bike in many years, and even thinking of doing so makes my head explode. :p
@jabberwocky Thanks for looking at that Cannondale and confirming what I thought. I definitely don't want a pure racing bike. I am a recreational rider of a certain age (ahem) and need a relaxed, comfort geometry. I have to have my bars even a bit higher than my saddle, no super steep seat tube, etc.
 
@Deacon Blues I don't currently have a road bike that would be worth converting. I do have a Trek Pilot WSD, but it's a 2007, with an old triple crank, rim brakes, etc. from that era. It's in pretty rough shape and is permanently set up on my smart trainer. So, I'd have to buy a new analog road bike, then have it converted to "e". Not saying I wouldn't consider that, but that opens up a whole new kettle of worms, as I haven't shopped for a road bike in many years, and even thinking of doing so makes my head explode. :p
@jabberwocky Thanks for looking at that Cannondale and confirming what I thought. I definitely don't want a pure racing bike. I am a recreational rider of a certain age (ahem) and need a relaxed, comfort geometry. I have to have my bars even a bit higher than my saddle, no super steep seat tube, etc.

Oh, and the Chinese rabbit hole is definitely a place I don't want to go! o_O🤣
 
I definitely don't want a pure racing bike. I am a recreational rider of a certain age (ahem) and need a relaxed, comfort geometry. I have to have my bars even a bit higher than my saddle, no super steep seat tube, etc.
Are you completely ruling out a flat bar bike? Even if so, maybe consider a Vado or Vado SL step thru with a drop handlebar swap. Going e-shifting would also make the swap a little easier. If the kid's Levo SL were still sale priced at $2500 and _if_ there are suitable 24 inch tires available for road riding, I would also think about this. Plus side over the Vado SL it comes with the 1.2 motor, downside it is shipped Class 1.
 
TSDZ2B is puppies and rainbows in comparison
I am really liking the Toseven DM02. It is compact, light, built to last, and has smooth delivery of up to 90Nm. I receive two more tomorrow for conversions. It is now my go to motor. Sweet. It rides comparably to a Bosch in terms of feel but with better power delivery. Mode Eco at level one is plenty for 85% of normal riding conditions. It was designed by the architect of the TSDZ2 using service life data and upgraded components. It looks Swiss inside.

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His bikes look awesome.
I am really liking the Toseven DM02.
Oh, and the Chinese rabbit hole is definitely a place I don't want to go! o_O🤣
It is not "his" bikes. It is your bike with an overpowered and heavy Chinese motor and controller as well as an uncertified battery slapped on it. The guy does not understand the specifics of, say, road bikes, that need to be lightweight, safe, and the motor does not need to be powerful but it should be lightweight and the e-bike shall be safe, have a local service and a good warranty.

Do you @Deacon Blues own any of "his" e-bikes or just got lured by his pictures and hijacking any thread he can to earn his green dollar? Or, did you like his stories of him overtaking road cyclists on one of his contraptions and mocking the hard working roadies with a clown horn? What does that tell you about the man?
 
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Are you completely ruling out a flat bar bike? Even if so, maybe consider a Vado or Vado SL step thru with a drop handlebar swap. Going e-shifting would also make the swap a little easier. If the kid's Levo SL were still sale priced at $2500 and _if_ there are suitable 24 inch tires available for road riding, I would also think about this. Plus side over the Vado SL it comes with the 1.2 motor, downside it is shipped Class 1.

Converting a flat bar bike to drops is theoretically possible, but you really have to get into the weeds on the bikes geometry and how it would work. Not an ideal solution. Easier to do if you're willing to do one of the in-between bar setups or shorter reach gravel bars.

The Vado is quite large even in the smallest size; eff tt, reach and standover are much larger than the small Creo. Much better off just buying the small Creo than converting a Vado to drops. Top tube length is going to be the killer with a flat bar conversion, since frames designed for flat bars are generally much longer (since the bars are much closer to the steerer). Putting drops on would really stretch the bike out. You would generally size down doing a drop bar conversion, but EmilyRides problem is shes probably looking at the smallest size already.

I am really liking the Toseven DM02. It is compact, light, built to last, and has smooth delivery of up to 90Nm. I receive two more tomorrow for conversions. It is now my go to motor.

Good to know. I have a Catrike that I'm considered converting to electric with something like the TSDZ2. I don't care about outright power, would just want lightweight and maybe a 50% pedal assist. Its already enough of a pain carrying the trike through my alley to the street.

It is not "his" bikes. It is your bike with an overpowered and heavy Chinese motor and controller as well as an uncertified battery slapped on it. The guy does not understand the specifics of, say, road bikes, that need to be lightweight, safe, and the motor does not need to be powerful but it should be lightweight and the e-bike shall be safe, have a local service and a good warranty.

TSDZ2 or the DM02 are about the lightest conversion torque sensing middrives I think. Still heavy compared to light motors like the SL or even the Bafang M800. I mean, it sounds like EmilyRides would love to just purchase a complete bike, but Specailized (or anyone else) just doesn't make one quite small enough. Conversion is a viable option, since it is possible to get a non-electric road bike in the proper size. There are companies who make good quality batteries for conversion setups. Its either a DIY project or the work to find someone local to handle the build and service though.
 
Thanks everyone. What @Nubnub suggested was interesting, but yeah, the smallest Vado is too large for me, other than possibly the step-thru, but I don't want to deal with all the intricacies of converting a flat-bar bike to a drop bar. And I think the Vado is similar to my Kona, more of a city/urban bike really, not what I am looking for. The kids' Vado is too small. I have ridden cruiser bikes with two 24" wheels at the beach when nothing else but large men's models were available, and I could ride them for brief stints, but they were too small. The 26" cruiser bikes with the sloping "top" tube fit me fine. I am small but not quite child-sized! 😄

I have looked at a few 44cm road bikes (Specialized Roubaix and Trek Domane) online, and there is a local shop that services all kinds of e-bikes that might do a conversion. I will look into their services, and see if that that is a possibility. If I were to do something like this, I agree with @jabberwocky that it would need to be a local shop. I am not a DIYer, and I'd want to be able to get future service easily.

Another question: If I were to go with the Zinn custom build with the Bosch gen 4 motor, would that be too much torque for me? I weigh 100 lbs and will be riding in rolling hills, not mountains.
 
Another question: If I were to go with the Zinn custom build with the Bosch gen 4 motor, would that be too much torque for me? I weigh 100 lbs and will be riding in rolling hills, not mountains.

It will definitely have more power than you'll need, but you can turn it down. Minimum on my Yamaha is 50%, I would guess Bosch is around that but you'd have to check.
 
There are companies who make good quality batteries for conversion setups. Its either a DIY project or the work to find someone local to handle the build and service though.
Ooh interested to hear more about these companies - are they just Stateside companies or international/Chinese? I found myself looking at the Yose hub motor kit, which looks reliable, good reviews and is good value but like a lot of DIY kits the battery looks enormous and ugly & attached to the water bottle bolts- which looks shaky. I've been wondering about a lightweight drop bar conversion as a project & a small battery would be great.
 
It will definitely have more power than you'll need, but you can turn it down. Minimum on my Yamaha is 50%, I would guess Bosch is around that but you'd have to check.
Thanks! That's good to know. As of this morning (and this could change by tonight!) I am leaning towards waiting until the availability of the aluminum Creo model that started this thread and see if I can find one to test ride before I do anything else, but I'm keeping my options open for now.
 
Welp, for anyone interested in this bike, I have this to report. I finally emailed my local Specialized dealer who said that the tan is already "oversold" (not sure if to individuals or bike shops, since it never showed any availability online). The black will be available in September. I don't like that color, am not sure about the Apex mechanical shifters, nor even if the bike will fit me, so I am pretty much ruling this one out. Looks like I may be heading into the custom Zinn after all, even though it will be a lot more spendy. There just aren't many options at my size, and I have looked at them all, I think, and come up empty-handed.

Sigh....
 
It is not "his" bikes. It is your bike with an overpowered and heavy Chinese motor and controller as well as an uncertified battery slapped on it. The guy does not understand the specifics of, say, road bikes, that need to be lightweight, safe, and the motor does not need to be powerful but it should be lightweight and the e-bike shall be safe, have a local service and a good warranty.

Do you @Deacon Blues own any of "his" e-bikes or just got lured by his pictures and hijacking any thread he can to earn his green dollar? Or, did you like his stories of him overtaking road cyclists on one of his contraptions and mocking the hard working roadies with a clown horn? What does that tell you about the man?
I do own one of Pedaluma's bike's, Stefan. I was consulted on every aspect of the build, and let's be clear: you absolutely have no idea what you are talking about.

My bike is a 42-pound aluminum hard tail, the motor is neither heavy nor overpowered nor unsafe. It cannot exceed 26 MPH on flat terrain. There was no markup on most of the parts that I requested, and his fee for the build was quite reasonable. In terms of what his stories "tell you about the man," let me enlighten you with the benefit of my personal experience working with him: He's a great guy, a credit to his community, the kind of person who is instinctively kind to neighbors, children, and animals. We need more people like him in our communities-- and, I might add, more people like you, who have completely different experience bases and "specialized" knowledge. (Pun intended!)

I will remind you that I have spoken sharply to Pedaluma on this forum on several occasions when I feel he has been disrespectful or unfair to you. So I will ask you in turn to confine your criticism to topics which you actually understand (and I have benefited on many occasions from your wisdom and experience, sir) and to speak of other forum members more respectfully.

We are all on the same team, here. Fighting among ourselves serves nothing.

Welp, for anyone interested in this bike, I have this to report. I finally emailed my local Specialized dealer who said that the tan is already "oversold" (not sure if to individuals or bike shops, since it never showed any availability online). The black will be available in September. I don't like that color, am not sure about the Apex mechanical shifters, nor even if the bike will fit me, so I am pretty much ruling this one out. Looks like I may be heading into the custom Zinn after all, even though it will be a lot more spendy. There just aren't many options at my size, and I have looked at them all, I think, and come up empty-handed.

Sigh....
I know this is an incredibly frustrating process, and I speak as someone who owns both a fully-integrated bike with a name-brand motor and parts and a custom-built bike, and someone who has a somewhat unusual body type (over six feet tall and 150 pounds.) I had to make compromises for each bike because the reality is that there simply was not, and still is not, a single eMTB in my price range-- even the price of both bikes combined-- that meets my needs.

What is particularly aggravating is having to guess whether a bike will fit me, how it will handle, etc., because I had the same situation: I couldn't ride either of my bikes before I bought them. If I limited myself to only bikes I could actually try before buying, I never would have wound up with two bikes I really like.

And I know what it's like to guess wrong, too. I do have a few guitars I don't play, that absolutely did not work for me. I had to chalk that up to experience-- one I gave to a friend's daughter, who was delighted with it. She's now an accomplished musician and vocalist, and sang with us at a show in New York, so in the end, I don't consider that wasted money. (Another guitar is absolutely useless, even as a baseball bat, though I did play it for one show many years ago.)

Stick with it, keep assessing your options-- calling bike shops, checking specs, doing weird numerical conversions and guesstimates. You'll find the right bike, or a couple of them!
 
My bike is a 42-pound aluminum hard tail
Did Pedaluma design or build it? Yes or no?

It cannot exceed 26 MPH on flat terrain
How come Pedaluma constantly boasts he's "smoking" roadies or Vados then? Do you also think honking on honest pedalling cyclists with a clown horn is okay?

What has he done to ensure the traditional bike converted to an e-bike is safe?

Did you convert any of your acoustic guitars into an electric one? Did you design or build any guitar yourself?
 
Welp, for anyone interested in this bike, I have this to report. I finally emailed my local Specialized dealer who said that the tan is already "oversold" (not sure if to individuals or bike shops, since it never showed any availability online). The black will be available in September. I don't like that color, am not sure about the Apex mechanical shifters, nor even if the bike will fit me, so I am pretty much ruling this one out. Looks like I may be heading into the custom Zinn after all, even though it will be a lot more spendy. There just aren't many options at my size, and I have looked at them all, I think, and come up empty-handed.

Sigh....

Sorry, thats annoying. Custom is a huge expense, but should hopefully be a bike that you'll keep a very long time. Aside from fit, big upside of custom is you get to pick all the parts! Main downside is you get to pick all the parts, which means you'll pick the expensive ones. :D

I think your main non-custom hope is currently-unreleased bikes. But theres no way of knowing whats coming, when, and what sizes will be offered. Liv might be the best chance for a small drop bar ebike but I have no special knowledge of them having one in development (word is parent company Giant has a new Road-E on the way; if theres a Liv version I'd bet they have a very small one, but Liv has never had a drop bar ebike AFIAK). I still think purchasing a used very small road bike and having it converted with some sort of torque sensing mid drive kit would be a good way to give the market a year or two, but I do sympathize with not wanting to go down that path (especially if you can't find someone reputable locally to handle the conversion and any future service).
 
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