TSDZ2 750w losing power on hills

[Sasquatch260]

Ok fellas, I had a few minutes to take the cover off and it was revealing. The yellow green and blue wires look burned and may be a little corroded. Some of the plastic was melted. However I took a continuity test between blue to yellow/yellow to green/blue to green and all of them had .4 ohms of resistance.
Thoughts? Seems like my motors fried but wouldn’t I have no continuity between one of the phases if that was the case?

 

[harryS]

Yeah, the motor looks cooked.

I took another look at my TSDZ2B. When I roll the bike backwards, the cassette/freewheel turns the chain amd the chain gear around the pedals backwards . That eventually winds up spinning the motor thru the gear train. It only freewheels if you spin the chain gear forwards.Your motor could be seized up.

Why don't you unscrew the power leads and unplug the tiny phase connetcor. Four more screws and the motor lifts out. You can see if its brass gear can be turned by hand,

 

[spokewrench]

@harryS posted a link saying anything over 450 watts would cook that motor. Suppose you shift to a gear to let it spin fast enough to be 80% efficient. That's 360 watts of mechanical output. Suppose you can maintain 100 watts on the pedals. You've got 460 mechanical watts to take you up the mountain.

Suppose you and the bike total 250 pounds. That's 1123 netwons, meaning you would need 112 newtons of push on a 10% grade, ignoring things like wind and rolling resistance. 460 / 112 is 4.1 meters per second, or over 9 miles an hour.

The actual speed would depend on your actual weight, the actual grade, and how much leg power you could maintain, but it looks like that little motor could work out, in the right gear. I see @harryS 's point. If I ever get that motor, I'll want a 10 amp controller.

 

[Sasquatch260]

Why don't you unscrew the power leads and unplug the tiny phase connetcor. Four more screws and the motor lifts out. You can see if its brass gear can be turned by hand,

Thanks. I will try this tomorrow. What does it mean if I can turn the brass gear?

 

[PCeBiker]

Yeah, the motor looks cooked.

Why don't you unscrew the power leads
and unplug the tiny phase connetcor. Four more screws and the motor lifts out. You can see if its brass gear can be turned by hand,

^^^ What he said.

That motor looks toasted, so you're not gonna make it worse by taking it apart.

,.. Seems like my motors fried

You might get sorta lucky and may have some sort of mechanical problem with a half seized bearing or bushing or something causing drag.

Your phase wires are burnt but you may be able to replace them or something?

,.. wouldn’t I have no continuity between one of the phases if that was the case?

Try measuring resistance between the phase wires and the metal motor housing.

You may get lucky and get it going again with something as simple as some grease or a new bearing?

But you still have burnt wires.

 

[PCeBiker]

What does it mean if I can turn the brass gear?

I'm not familiar with your exact motor, but the armature should spin freely inside the motor housing.

This is a fridge fan motor that seized up on me,..

The armature shaft seized up inside the sintered bushing and the whole bushing started to spin in the plastic clip.
The oil dried up and the armature turned blue from the heat and seized into the bushing.

I just sanded the armature with 1500 grit sandpaper, and reoiled the felt that surrounded the bushing and that fixed it.




You may have something similar going on, but you've still got burnt wires that should be fixed up in some way.

 

[PedalUma]

I believe that the motor gears engaging when pushed backwards is normal.
Not familiar with your specific motor but my Bafang Ultra mid_drive spins the pedals when rolled backwards. No real noise though.
Not when rolled forward.
@PedalUma... You're the TSD' afficionado... What ye' say?

Lube that step-down nylon gear. It may need a new one with the backside bearing and shaft. I like to use automotive brake parts lube because as the guy said, 'There is nothing as smooth as a lubed tranny.'

 

[PCeBiker]

Lube that step-down nylon gear. It may need a new one with the backside bearing and shaft. I like to use automotive brake parts lube because as the guy said, 'There is nothing as smooth as a lubed tranny.'

What about this,.. ??

 

[Slaphappygamer]

What about this,.. ??

View attachment 190759

That’s more burned than my vado!

 

[Sasquatch260]

Well, I think I might retire her and upgrade.
I'm planning to continue riding the very hilly area where I live, so I don't know if it's worth it to patch her up and then beat her up on those hills again and again.
I think I'll start a new thread and ask about the TDSZ8. (Unless I could continue asking on this one??? What would be best?)
You guys have been very helpful. Thanks again for helping me!

 

[Gionnirocket]

There's a few options to dyi builds these days.
Look into ToSeven and CYC as well as the TSD options.

I'm out of the DIY build scene for 2 years now but personal experience the Bafang BBS02B is very reliable and the *HD is even more of a beast. But you do exchange torque sensing of the TSD and aforementioned for cadence on the Bafang BBS* which is something I appreciate on my Bafang Ultra.

 

[Sasquatch260]

There's a few options to dyi builds these days.
Look into ToSeven and CYC as well as the TSD options.

I'm out of the DIY build scene for 2 years now but personal experience the Bafang BBS02B is very reliable and the *HD is even more of a beast. But you do exchange torque sensing of the TSD and aforementioned for cadence on the Bafang BBS* which is something I appreciate on my Bafang Ultra.

I prefer the torque sensing myself. But I will check out those options too. Thanks.

 

[Sasquatch260]

Since you guys are now familiar with my hilly area and aggressive riding, I might as well ask here...

Would the TDSZ8 with a 52v 20ah battery be good for my situation?

And is AliExpress a legit place to buy? They seem to offer the cheapest price.

 

[Gionnirocket]

I've found 48v more than enough to handle hills without overheating... But 52v is higher. That said a 52v drops quickly to 48v and personally I'd rather have more cells in parallel for higher current and less sag than cells in series for higher voltage when choosing a battery... That, that said the difference between the two near equal voltages seems negligible to me.
I did purchase my BBS02B and battery from Aliexpress and had no issues. Alway purchase from a reputable seller that's been in business for a few years when using Aliexpress.
There are other seller options so you may want to do some research beforehand

 

[Slaphappygamer]

I’ve had a good experience with Aliexpress. I’ve purchased electronics, bike things (including handlebars, suntour NCX, KT controller kits).

100% look at the reviews and the age of the shop. Do your homework before you buy. I haven’t had to return anything so I can’t speak to that process.

 

[Gionnirocket]

I’ve had a good experience with Aliexpress. I’ve purchased electronics, bike things (including handlebars, suntour NCX, KT controller kits).

100% look at the reviews and the age of the shop. Do your homework before you buy. I haven’t had to return anything so I can’t speak to that process.

Me too... with the BBS being the largest purchase. But I've purchased a small container of various s*it from them mostly without issue. The few issues I did have the returns went mostly without issue as well. Look for Free Returns when selecting a seller.. On the few issues with returns that I did have, my credit card issued me a refund through the dispute process.
Some odd electronics are hard to find elsewhere so Ali has been my go to.

 

[Sasquatch260]

Here's what I'm looking at. Any help appreciated:

Which Battery is best? And which display?

Here's the seller info...
Greenergy Choice Store
Open sinceMar 5,2024
4.9store rating
4.6Communication
97.3%positive reviews

 

[harryS]

Darn good price for the TSDZ8 at $243. Probably too darn good. On the other hand, I have had aliexpress back me in every dispute I have filed, and never had to use paypal. I'd throw the dice on it, with 42T, simplest display and brake levers. And they do say it ships out of the USA, so it ought to come in a week or two, STill, that's me, as I can risk $250.

You already have a battery, and that's where you can get a bad deal from an unknown vendor,

 

[Sasquatch260]

Darn good price for the TSDZ8 at $243 shipped out of USA. I'd buy it 42T with the DZ40, brake levers and no battery, You already have a battery, I've bought plenty of stuff on aliexpress and feel that paypal/aliexpress are buyer protective. I'd roll the dice on it, but that's me.

For hill climbing, as long as you keep the motor spinning, a BBS02B will laugh at any hill that a TSDZ2 can manage, It has twice the power. I own both, but I like the torque sense on the TSDZ2, If this is a commuting bike, you can't go wrong with the bafang.

The thing I wondered about using my old battery is - since I've done that hill dozens of times without issue - what if my battery began to diminish and that perhaps put too much stress on my motor and caused it to cook? That's why I thought I maybe should get a new battery too?

 

[harryS]

In my experience with undersized and older batteries, when they get worn out, there is a large voltage sag on the cells and either the battery or the controller shuts down.

It's true that higher voltage is more efficient in an ebike, but your heat came from an undersized motor spinning too slow, not from not enough voltage, Much as I like my TSDZ2, my BBS02B laughs at it when pulling power is needed.

A new battery is always nice, but get it somewhere other than the lowest price guy, .