TSDZ2 750w losing power on hills

[harryS]

It seems the motor. I'll bet @harryS could tell you how to check for overheated magnets and windings.

No idea. Have never overheated any ebike motor. I hear they smell bad when that happens though. The varnish comes off those enameled motor wires.

I think they sell a motor and controller board for around $160, but you can get the whole kit for $260 shipped to the USA from pswpower.

 

[Sasquatch260]

I have a C3 display also.

Have you ever had (or do you know anything about) the 02H code I got? It shows up now when I try to pedal. I can't find anything about it in the manual or online.

 

[spokewrench]

Have you ever had (or do you know anything about) the 02H code I got? It shows up now when I try to pedal. I can't find anything about it in the manual or online.

Sabvoton error 02H

Edit: problem solved, read below. So I’m getting this error code 02H while applying full throttle and only when the rear wheel strikes some tree roots or something like that causes up spring. This code never happens if I ride on the street. It only happens when I’m riding off road and I’m...

endless-sphere.com

This fellow discovered it means "overcurrent error."

In an industrial AC motor, the magnetic fields of the three phases interact to produce torque and back emf, which limits current. If bad contactor points prevent current on one phase, there will be very little torque, and the increased current in the other two will overheat the motor.

E-bike motors use permanent magnets, but maybe losing one phase would have the same effect. You might check for continuity in the phase lines. If you're missing a phase, it could also be a damaged controller. They ought to sell e-bikes in pairs so you can swap parts to troubleshoot!

 

[spokewrench]

I have a C3 display also. In my experience it isn't normal for the voltage to drop as you describe on a fully charged battery.

I wonder why your display doesn't simply show the battery voltage. I wonder if all C3 displays are like that.

I've put KT controllers and displays on two bikes. I'd recharge at various levels. I'd note the display voltage, remove the battery, note the multimeter voltage, charge it, note the multimeter voltage, install the battery, and note the display voltage. Those displays consistently showed 0.5 volt less than a multimeter reading. (I imagine there's a diode in the circuit.)

I refreshed my memory on voltage sag. The display read 52.2, which would be 52.7 with a multimeter. The controller is rated at 25 amps. Going slowly uphill, I opened the throttle wide and saw the voltage drop 4 volts to 48.2. I repeated it a couple of times to be sure it was consistent.

It's a 10-amp-hour battery, so I guess it has 3 "stacks" of cells. (I don't know the right word.) Nominally, I'll say .52 ohms per stack, so 3 in parallel would be .17 ohm. At 25 amps, that would be a drop of 4.25 volts. Gratifyingly close!

That doesn't prove @Sasquatch260 's display voltage works like mine.

 

[EMGX]

Have you ever had (or do you know anything about) the 02H code I got? It shows up now when I try to pedal. I can't find anything about it in the manual or online.

It was a few years ago but I'm pretty sure it was the same code (and I'm certain it read Power Protect, like yours). I tried putting the battery in a single wheel trailer. Every time I hit a bump or rough surface the motor would turn off with that code displayed. The power cord was good quality 12ga with xt90 connectors. I think I had the same issue with two different batteries and figured maybe the battery BMS couldn't handle the jarring but that's just a guess. Bottom line is that it was a battery/electrical issue, not motor/mechanical. I may have had the same code when testing a LiFePO4 battery. My limited experience with that battery is that the voltage stays stable until it suddenly and sharply drops off. Happened when I was riding home in a very steep section, 20-25%.

Does your C3 also always initially show that max 50.8v even with a known fully charged battery like mine? Even with the LiFePO4, which fully charged is 58v, it initially reads a lower voltage until the battery voltage drops below that number then it becomes accurate.

EDIT: if you get that code every time you pedal it seems that you might have a battery or battery wire/connector issue. If you can, try it with a different battery. Still doesn't explain the hot motor that you noticed though.

 

[EMGX]

I wonder why your display doesn't simply show the battery voltage. I wonder if all C3 displays are like that.

I've put KT controllers and displays on two bikes. I'd recharge at various levels. I'd note the display voltage, remove the battery, note the multimeter voltage, charge it, note the multimeter voltage, install the battery, and note the display voltage. Those displays consistently showed 0.5 volt less than a multimeter reading. (I imagine there's a diode in the circuit.)

I refreshed my memory on voltage sag. The display read 52.2, which would be 52.7 with a multimeter. The controller is rated at 25 amps. Going slowly uphill, I opened the throttle wide and saw the voltage drop 4 volts to 48.2. I repeated it a couple of times to be sure it was consistent.

It's a 10-amp-hour battery, so I guess it has 3 "stacks" of cells. (I don't know the right word.) Nominally, I'll say .52 ohms per stack, so 3 in parallel would be .17 ohm. At 25 amps, that would be a drop of 4.25 volts. Gratifyingly close!

That doesn't prove @Sasquatch260 's display voltage works like mine.

I'm interested if Sasquatch can confirm his C3 reads voltage like mine, otherwise I have no idea if the way my display reads voltage is unique to mine or not.
Since the TSDZ2 is torque sensing only (unless you also install a throttle) it probably doesn't drop voltage as instantly as using a throttle from a slow start up a hill with a KT controller.

 

[Sasquatch260]

Does your C3 also always initially show that max 50.8v even with a known fully charged battery like mine? Even with the LiFePO4, which fully charged is 58v, it initially reads a lower voltage until the battery voltage drops below that number then it becomes accurate.

EDIT: if you get that code every time you pedal it seems that you might have a battery or battery wire/connector issue. If you can, try it with a different battery. Still doesn't explain the hot motor that you noticed though.

Since this happened, it's the first time I've set my display to read voltage. But I did fully charge my battery this time and it read 50.8 at full charge. ... That's a good idea about trying a different battery. I wish I knew someone in my area that had a battery I could try. I only have one. Maybe I can find one.

 

[PCeBiker]

The power just bogged down all the sudden about a mile into a hill. If I kept peddaling, it shut down completely and I got the following on my screen: ERROR O2H POWER PROTECT (motor feels very hot). I have done the hill this happened on dozens of times without issue.

It is possible if the battery has a Huge Voltage Sag due to a bad cell group.

A fully charged 48 volt battery is 54.6 volts, and the battery puts out (750÷54.6) 13.74 amps to deliver 750 Watts to the motor.

I think that your battery is just getting old and losing capacity or is out of balance.

EDIT:,.. Still doesn't explain the hot motor that you noticed though.

Perhaps as a test, you can ride up a steep hill for a mile or two with a fully charged battery and see if the motor feels hot.

If the motor only gets hot just before your ebike shuts down, then it's a battery issue not a motor issue.

Higher voltage delivers more power with less amps than a lower voltage.

 

[spokewrench]

Every time I hit a bump or rough surface the motor would turn off with that code displayed.

That rang a bell. The source I found was apparently riding an ATV. When he hit a bump such as a root, he'd get that code and the motor would shut off. When I said it was over current, I wrongly attributed it to him. He said he thought it was over voltage.

He said it happened only at full throttle. He programmed the controller for a little less current and had no more trouble. That's why I interpreted it as over current.

The moderator asked if it could be a bad connector. That makes sense to me. Maybe his connectors weren't rated for the 200 phase amps he had been running. Even 1 milliohm would produce 40 watts of heat. Hitting a bump might momentarily cause 1 milliohm in the connector, causing rapid heating and high resistance, reducing current in that phase, resulting in overcurrent in the other 2.

A contributor said 02H signaled that the controller was damaged. Apparently it wasn't true in this case as the controller worked faithfully with 150 phase amps.

 

[Sasquatch260]

I think that your battery is just getting old and losing capacity or is out of balance.



Perhaps as a test, you can ride up a steep hill for a mile or two with a fully charged battery and see if the motor feels hot.

If the motor only gets hot just before your ebike shuts down, then it's a battery issue not a motor issue.

Higher voltage delivers more power with less amps than a lower voltage.

That's what it did - it got hot before the motor shut down... but the problem now is that the power (assistance) never came back. It only helps at like 5 % of what it was. But the voltage still reads 50.8, dropping to 48.

 

[PCeBiker]

That's what it did - it got hot before the motor shut down... but the problem now is that the power (assistance) never came back. It only helps at like 5 % of what it was. But the voltage still reads 50.8, dropping to 48.

Ohh, OK.
Maybe your controller is stuck in "limp mode" if it has such a thing? (Like my car will do)

Maybe a factory reset would clear it, but I'm just speculating.

I can reset my KT controller with the display if I get my settings all messed up.


Perhaps your motor is cooked with shorted wires and your controller is reducing the power to protect everything?

 

[Sasquatch260]

Ohh, OK.
Maybe your controller is stuck in "limp mode" if it has such a thing? (Like my car will do)

Maybe a factory reset would clear it, but I'm just speculating.

I can reset my KT controller with the display if I get my settings all messed up.


Perhaps your motor is cooked with shorted wires and your controller is reducing the power to protect everything?

Good idea. I was wondering about trying a factory reset. Maybe I will try that next. I wonder if that doesn't work if I can somehow check the controller. Maybe it got fried?

 

[Gionnirocket]

How are things on a flat?
Voltage still dropping?
Still 5% assistance? Even at maximum PAS?
Motor overheating and no power leads me to believe it's the motor. If it was the battery I believe the sag would be a lot greater to have those results

 

[Slaphappygamer]

But I did fully charge my battery this time and it read 50.8 at full charge.

Oh, this is the problem. Your full battery charge would be around 54 volts. If 50.8 volts is full charge, then your battery is the fault. If you are low on voltage, then your capacity may also be suffering.

 

[PCeBiker]

Good idea. I was wondering about trying a factory reset. Maybe I will try that next. I wonder if that doesn't work if I can somehow check the controller. Maybe it got fried?

I'm thinking that the fact that you've got a code would mean the controller is working properly.
The code may reappear after a reset, then it would be a pretty good guess that there's something wrong with your motor.

,..I wonder if that doesn't work if I can somehow check the controller.

If you can access your 3 Fat phase wires going to your motor, you can test the resistance to see if any are shorted. (like if the coil wires overheat and the lacquer melts)

I kinda forget the details, but I know that you can test an unpowered motor with an ohmeter.

 

[Sasquatch260]

How are things on a flat?
Voltage still dropping?
Still 5% assistance? Even at maximum PAS?
Motor overheating and no power leads me to believe it's the motor. If it was the battery I believe the sag would be a lot greater to have those results

Yep. Everything same on flat now. (I'm trying to find someone local with a Hailong battery to rule that out.)

 

[PCeBiker]

Oh, this is the problem. Your full battery charge would be around 54 volts. If 50.8 volts is full charge, then your battery is the fault. If you are low on voltage, then your capacity may also be suffering.

I think his display is lying and reading everything over 50.8 volts as fully charged.
My three batteries do the same thing with their built-in displays.
Everything over ~50.8 volts shows full bars on the 4 segment display.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Yep. Everything same on flat now. (I'm trying to find someone local with a Hailong battery to rule that out.)

If you have the skillset and a voltage meter... Measure the voltage with that.
As others have stated... The display reading is flaky over 50v
Fully charged should be 54.6v

 

[Sasquatch260]

Oh, this is the problem. Your full battery charge would be around 54 volts. If 50.8 volts is full charge, then your battery is the fault. If you are low on voltage, then your capacity may also be suffering.

EMGX said he had a C3 display like mine and it would read 50.8 at full charge too. I will charge my battery and test it with a multimeter to see if it's actually higher (assuming the C3 display maxes out at 50.8 for some reason).

 

[Sasquatch260]

If you have the skillset and a voltage meter... Measure the voltage with that.
As others have stated... The display reading is flaky over 50v
Fully charged should be 54.6v

Yes, thanks. I'm gonna charge it up and try that.