ToSeven DM Series Mid Motors

Two more DM02's arrived today. Now that I have the programing down, I love these things. One is going on a Pashley Prospero gravel bike.
Are you able to get to the advanced menu to change all the things you claim.

I just replaced the controller on my DM01 (it had latest release). This was not compatible with my T24 display in that no changes to anything were allowed. They could be changed, just not saved. I just upgraded the T24 display SW to the latest and can change all the simple things like Units/Wheelsize but no advanced menu.
 
You are describing how it 'used to work'. The long press up and down doesnt work anymore.

The new SW with the non-advanced settings definately limits PAS speed to 40kmh (about 24mph). Doing the kph-mph trick (set to kmh, wheelsize to 60% does work).

Just found how to access advanced menus. Nobody seems to want to say publicly howto on any user groups or discord. I dont want to be the one to break the gentlemens agreement.

PMd you
 
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I deleted the key. You know, I know @linklemming. I am glad it worked for you. When you use the advanced menus keep a log. Only change one thing at a time and not by much. Update your log. Tweak it and dial it in. The F-er will soar. My 500 W DM02 will kick the butt of any bike that I have ever ridden, and it is narrow and light. I made a bushing so the motor is up against the top tube and is not low to strikes. I have only done five but two more arrived today. And I will dial one in for the new gravel bike arriving from England for conversion. This will be the most lovely and highest performance class 3 pedal bike in California. No one, not super stars, royals, the Obamas or Taylor, has a bike this nice. It is GRX and I will run through frame for hygienic cleanliness. Zero zip ties, all clean, small T-154 color display.
 
Could you post a pic of your bushing

A california ebike BBSHD suspension brace can be made to work. The attached pic of the brace only isnt the final version (originally used on a BBSHD install, then I tried several things that didnt work so more metal was removed than on the final version). The final version cut off the two ears that bolted to the BBSHD and a new hole was drilled to match a new hole on the DM01 mounting bracket and they were bolted together. The motor is as high as it can be (toucheds downtube).
 

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The drive side offset is still wide. Did you put old convex innertube layers between the motor and downtube to prevent sound transmission? A rolled snake tongue does the trick. I have doubled the lock rings on my builds. I wish that I had packed one with grease at the bb, because it slightly creaks, yet is totally tight on the outside. The smaller 500W 2 locks much higher on the downtube. It is above the chainring for clearance. Now your bike will kick butt and fly, without self-destructing. My builds are 4mm to the display with no visible wires. One has one visible connector for display swaps. It is small. The motor side sticker comes right off.
 
The drive side offset is still wide. Did you put old convex innertube layers between the motor and downtube to prevent sound transmission? A rolled snake tongue does the trick. I have doubled the lock rings on my builds. I wish that I had packed one with grease at the bb, because it slightly creaks, yet is totally tight on the outside. The smaller 500W 2 locks much higher on the downtube. It is above the chainring for clearance. Now your bike will kick butt and fly, without self-destructing. My builds are 4mm to the display with no visible wires. One has one visible connector for display swaps. It is small. The motor side sticker comes right off.
There is a small gap between motor and downtube of about a mm. On the DM01 there is a bump on the motor for a mounting bolt that hits the downtube first. I will likely ground it down next time I have it apart to get the motor a tad higher. My DM01 is same height as 46t chainring and the wires are below that. Never had any ground clearance issues including many raised cattle guards I encounter everyday.

I wanted to use two lockrings from my BBSHD but the DM01 is slightly different lockring size than BBSHD by about 0.6mm so no go there.
 
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small gap between motor and downtube
I take an old innertube length and slice a long V shape out of it. Then I roll it with electrical tape. That is my bushing. I then lever the motor hard against it and the downtube and lock the motor down. I have spare TSDZ lock-rings. I paint them black and use them as a secondary lock with blue Loctite. I do not like the wires under the DM01 and the throttle versions of the DM02. I can adjust everything about the torque sensor so a throttle is not needed. I can push my foot as easily as my thumb.
 
I take an old innertube length and slice a long V shape out of it. Then I roll it with electrical tape. That is my bushing.
I'd think you'd want to use something a little denser/harder than inner tube and I'd lose the electrical tape.. it turns into a hot mess in the sun over time and shrinks in the cold. Heat shrink would be a better choice.
I've used a split piece of sprinkler funny pipe that can be made to fit a downtube neatly with a heat gun...but any single piece scrap hard dense rubber I think would last better.

I then lever the motor hard against it and the downtube and lock the motor down. I have spare TSDZ lock-rings. I paint them black and use them as a secondary lock with blue Loctite. I do not like the wires under the DM01 and the throttle versions of the DM02. I can adjust everything about the torque sensor so a throttle is not needed. I can push my foot as easily as my thumb.
You just don't understand a throttle. . .
Impossible to tune PAS to act as a throttle with its benefits and still have a fine tuned acceleration curve with PAS
 
You just don't understand a throttle. . .
Impossible to tune PAS to act as a throttle with its benefits and still have a fine tuned acceleration curve with PAS
The throttle on the DM01 is super lame (both in response and overall power). I only added a throttle to compensate for the horrible response/delay starting from a stop.

The throttle isnt much better and IMHO is effectively useless to compensate for this even in its most aggressive setting.

Suggestions pedaluma (reduce startup delay from a stop). As the To7 guru, you need to stop teasing us
 
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The throttle on the DM01 is super lame (both in response and overall power). I only added a throttle to compensate for the horrible response/delay starting from a stop.

The throttle isnt much better and IMHO is effectively useless to compensate for this even in its most aggressive setting.

Suggestions pedaluma. As the To7 guru, you need to stop teasing us
I guess I'm making assumptions and comparing it to a Bafang UART BBS* and Ultra motor. The PAS and throttle are configured independently and are used to compliment each other. Great for not stalling on a steep rocky climb when you can't travel at speed because the terrain doesn't allow. Also great for a few second blast to maintain speed and allow you to stand over a large section of washboard'd roadway.
I can't imagine having my PAS set to output the way my throttle does. I like my PAS to feel as natural as can be.

But I guess none of this comes into play when you're stroll_rolling through town.. to lunch... and then to the ice-cream stand 🙃
 
Suggestions
Well now that you know the code to get into the engineering menus diddle around in Throttle. I reset everything about the torque sensor. Throttle has three categories, Activate, Speed Mode, and Control Mode. Control Mode for example has H, Without PID, and PID. Whatever those are. My advice is to play with it. But only when taking detailed notes, and only when changing one thing at a time before testing. Speed Mode has 12 options, including Scooter. So what I think that I am hearing is factory default is anemic from the box, out of an abundance of caution. I love it. Just don't blow anything up.
 
Not sure how what I was trying to say was misinterpreted but oh well.

I really dont want a throttle at all on my DM01. I have never used one on my CYC photon. I find a throttle is kindof a requirement for various situations on a BBSHD PAS system as more of a supplement

I only put a throttle on my DM01 because the startup torque/PAS behavior was so bad. The delay feels like 2 seconds and then the assist IMHO comes on too strong. If I use the throttle in the most aggressive setting (Scooter), the delay is also pretty bad (Im guessing 1 second delay but it could be that it starts out so low). I have played with all the throttle settings/modes and scooter seems to be the best and is confirmed to be in the DM01/DM02 wiki. It is nothing like the BBSHD throttle and IMHO is basically useless.

So if I could just get a more responsive torque/PAS response from a start, I would just remove the throttle. A bonus would be a slightly less aggressive power rampup. Heck even the BBSHD PAS startup response is better and more predictable.

I asked about settings to fix this on discord, we will see what people have to say

Looks like the wiki might be outdated compared to some of the settings you mention like PID. PID is typically used in the electrical control world and refers to a Proportional-Integral-Derivative closed loop controller but who knows what To7s defintion is.

I have played around alot with PID controller tuning on the many FPV drones I have built.

Im pretty sure the initial Shimano EP8000 (circa 2019) motor used PID control for torque response because you could feel the motor overshoot/ringing if you got too aggressive on initial pedal inputs. Basically you could feel a slight kickback in the pedal which dampened after about 3 cycles.
 
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I really dont want a throttle
Okay, in that case go into Speed and Power, Controller, and Torque Sensor. Change them all. Torque Sensor has nine sub-menus. I made mine kick-in with less delay in milliseconds and with less mv, millivolts, then it cuts out faster, so it is more perky, such a nice word, which gives me fine mamories of my youth, but with enough overrun milliseconds to not be jumpy. You can achieve displacement with perkiness, again just as in your youth.
 
What I don't understand with any of these motors is why doesn't the manufacturer publish a settings guide?
Everyone of these turn into a 2 - 3 year shit_show with end users doing all the work and by the time things start to get figured out... new firmware flips it or a new "better" motor is released.
Really is a bit ridiculous imo. . .
 
What I don't understand with any of these motors is why doesn't the manufacturer publish a settings guide?
Everyone of these turn into a 2 - 3 year shit_show with end users doing all the work and by the time things start to get figured out... new firmware flips it or a new "better" motor is released.
Really is a bit ridiculous imo. . .
I think we are lucky to even have the wiki.

When flashing the display, the software you use is 100% chinese, luckily To7 has a guide which shows what buttons to push. Initially I chose the wrong serial port and saw all sort of chinese gibberish I had no chance of understanding. Finally changed to the correct port and saw the 'expected' chinese gibberish, then some other chinese gibberish I will never understand.
 
What I don't understand with any of these motors is why doesn't the manufacturer publish a settings guide?
Everyone of these turn into a 2 - 3 year shit_show with end users doing all the work and by the time things start to get figured out... new firmware flips it or a new "better" motor is released.
Really is a bit ridiculous imo. . .
I am still lingering on "a little too tall' could have used a few pounds, cornfields, backwoods and way up high, way up firm and high. Sorry, And working on mysteries without any clues. It takes people like us to unlock this stuff and sell it to Taylor Swift, and royals all dialed in, and one-of-a-kind high-end types. This is not regular bike shop stuff, or big-box stuff. It is Maker custom stuff. We are the exclusive tailors who know, and know. I will do that Pashley Prospero that royalty cannot touch or buy at any price. An adz is an ancient prehistoric tool, that bike will kick the adsz of any other, its so perfect and beautiful. The store junk is total off the shelf junk in comparison. Like a suit at Marshalls. Not from a custom tailor in Milan.
 
Most of the "Torque Sensor" parameters seem mostly self explanatory. Too bad its in the 30s and snowing now

Im curious as to how you are using the EAssist levels

From the wiki
EAssist levels work a little differently. Unlike the Pwr levels, these aren’t a power cutoff value as such. With the torque sensor enabled, they function more like the amount of effort you have to put in to reach the maximum that the motor can produce in the mode you are in (Eco, City or Sport). For example, if you have Level 1 EAssist set at 20%, it will provide 20% of its power when it senses pressure on the pedals, then ramp up all the way to the maximum as you put more pressure down. Likewise, if you have a level set at 80%, you get 80% of its power initially, ramping up to the maximum with very little extra effort. Lower values mean you have to work harder for the reward, and vice versa. Note that it could be argued that there is little point setting an Eassist level to 100% since it then behaves like PAS, providing full power as the pedals start turning with nothing extra when more pressure is applied. However, that’s not necessarily a bad thing for many people who would only use this setting when they want maximum power with minimum effort.

The 'default' settings has EAssist at:
Level 1 - 30% of power defined for mode (i.e. eco, city, sport)
Level 2 - 40%
Level 3 -60%
Level 4 -80%
Level 5 -100%

I dont 'think' this is how I want my bike to work as it seems like the initial power onset characteristics are now tied to these levels.

What 'I think I want' is the same 'initial' power(i.e. 20%) for all assist levels for a particular mode but with a higher multiplication of user input, ramping up to the power levels defined by the pwr assist level parameter (i.e. pwr L1-L5) in the Speed and Power Menu
 
@DaveMatthews and @Catalyzt too; I will not write the numbers for ai to harvest. It is all about feel. My basic levels are set by max amps of output. Input is like the action on a guitar not the amplification. If you are new to this we are discussing a fully programable motor. Every aspect of the torque sensor input along with cadence is programable as well as what you get back, we are talking milliseconds and millivolts. Sometimes some sustain resonates, even with echo, reverb, and distortion, to some extent. The input action feel is key not just the amplification level. It is the clarity and expression that comes through when it is dialed right.
 
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You seem to be the only one to have the ability to make a T07 motor better than anything else available yet dont want to share how you accomplish that.

Since you are not willing to share, I guess there will never be any way to verify your claims which pretty much nullifies any claims you make.

How very odd
 
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