Throttles and California

[DashRiprock]

....I know of at least one state where the 'throttle people' couldn't get along with the non-throttlers or themselves.
The solution?
Build one trail parallel to the other given the obvious fact that there is no such thing as unlimited natural resources.
What happened?
Nobody was happy as every single group wanted the entire forest and everything in it...to themselves.

I have to often laugh as an older person.It's like watching kids grow up thinking that they are increasingly more clever each and every day trying to:
...either get away with something/re-invent the wheel
or
...continually patting themselves on the backs as if they were indeed the first one (ever) to come up with their latest scheme or lazy-based get-around.

It's called sharing and involves two things that many young people don't understand or are too lazy/cheap to promote involving maintaining any trail system:
Hard work maintenance achieved through volunteering and/or fees which are assessed in real time due to a lack of the former. Newsflash: There is no free ride.
No, things aren't always always 'fair' (which seems to be young people's favorite word) or ever meant to be...and yes, you must put up with groups/people that you don't necessarily like or approve of.

Get over it.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

I'm okay with banning with whatever that previous poster rides. Just on general principles.

 

[jabberwocky]

 

[jabberwocky]

JR is totally right in that pretty much none of that nice non-road infra and recreational trail was built by ebikers. It was all advocated for (and in may cases built by) groups associated with traditional cycling advocacy. And it was built specifically because those groups didn't want to share space with motor vehicles. So its not unreasonable to place limits on motorized vehicles (which ebikes are!) if they want to share those spaces.

If you open it up for one, you open it up for everyone. The sick, disabled, able...everyone. It should not be used if it cannot used by....wait for it...everyone.

You like to make laws and regulations which ignore large swaths of individuals and their access to large areas of land that we ALL pay taxes to maintain (see above). You're digging yourself in even further...

So your argument is everything public has to be open to all vehicles because FREEDOMM!!!11? The local 10ft wide bike path can't keep me from driving my F150 down it because FREEDOM? Local mountainbike singletrack has to allow ATVs because FREEDOM? You see how ridiculous this is? Just because something is public doesn't mean everyone has unrestricted use of it however they want.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Meanwhile, in civilized parts of the world:

Amsterdam's Bold Move to 30 km/h: A Paradigm Shift for Road Safety?

Amsterdam reduces speed limit to 30 km/h for safety. Early signs positive; challenges in driver compliance. Campaign, technology, and community involvement key to success.

www.intertraffic.com

... Imagine, then, the complexities of the project that the City of Amsterdam has just undertaken – reducing the maximum speed limit from 50 to just 30 km/h, rules that now apply to more than 80% of its entire road network. ...

 

[J.R.]

Life is too short to take time to reply to irrational rants.

 

[Chargeride]

California could end ebikes tomorrow with one headline.
Ebike battery causes bush fire.

 

[harryS]

California could end ebikes tomorrow with one headline.
Ebike battery causes bush fire.

I'm sure that a few hundred ebikes went up in smoke and contributed to the the fires.

The CIty of LA seems to own a fleet of four or five fireboats. I wonder if they were put into play, or maybe they can't get close enough to the shore to be useful. For the coming rebuild, they might well design some low draft flatboats with pumpers to cover the shoreline .

 

[Sparky731]

E-bikes have motors. Gas scooters have engines. Motors OK. Engines not Ok.

That is a clear distinction provided by the AZ public safety to apply to motorized vehicles on shared-use paths.

And my myopic definition is a throttle bike is a motorized scooter and no longer a bicycle.

but I am an aging purist. Bi meaning two legs providing propulsion.

 

[mschwett]

E-bikes have motors. Gas scooters have engines. Motors OK. Engines not Ok.

That is a clear distinction provided by the AZ public safety to apply to motorized vehicles on shared-use paths.

And my myopic definition is a throttle bike is a motorized scooter and no longer a bicycle.

but I am an aging purist. Bi meaning two legs providing propulsion.

To me, it’s really simple.

Bike infrastructure (what little of it we have) was designed for vehicles with a certain performance envelope, which is approximately what a reasonably fit human can provide. Not a world tour rider in a peloton at full blast, but a reasonably fit human on a reasonably common bicycle. The reason bicycles don’t have to be registered, insured, and their riders licensed is because the amount of damage that such a vehicle can cause to anyone but the rider is relatively limited. It’s a perfectly reasonable system and that infrastructure has been built and paid for by a public that understood those rules and understood that it would be used as such, advocate for by decades of human powered cyclists, and designed by traffic and civil engineers to be used in that way.

As long as e-bikes stay within the rough parameters of those limits, they should be allowed everywhere bicycles are. 750w is beyond those limits, as is 28mph on level ground. A higher power limit but a lower speed might also be appropriate because it would expand the envelope of cycling for more people to use cargo bikes, take their kids places, or go up steep hills. Beyond that, e.g. 1500w peak and a throttle and 28mph, it’s not a bicycle, it’s a moped or whatever, and should be absolutely allowed in the vehicle lanes on roads with appropriate licensing and insurance. It’s still way better than a car.

And please, no bullshit about how fast a bike can go downhill, or how fast one guy rode one time with a tailwind, or how rude roadies are. Those things have always been true (or not) and it has never been much of a problem with even half-decently designed infrastructure to anyone but the most karen of karens and chads.

 

[DashRiprock]

Meanwhile, in civilized parts of the world:

Amsterdam's Bold Move to 30 km/h: A Paradigm Shift for Road Safety?

Amsterdam reduces speed limit to 30 km/h for safety. Early signs positive; challenges in driver compliance. Campaign, technology, and community involvement key to success.

www.intertraffic.com

Thank you for confirming that we have indeed been taken over by those wishing us to not only accomplish less but risk nothing in the process.

 

[Chargeride]

My first experience of this was with my Enduro ,KDX dirtbike, looking for parts I noticed the US spec had exhaust spark arrestors.
I was thinking it was something to improve the ignition from the spark plug.
We dont have them because, well it frickin rains all the time.
Maybe Americans might think their environment is failing, but you have far more protections than us.
I guess its wether they are fairly enforced.

 

[Catalyzt]

Sure, there's always a contingent in any demographic that whines and complains and likes to tell others what to do, and makes wild generalization, calling out other people and making assumptions about what they are thinking. And that does happen with young people today, as it always has.

I remember for our generation, people said really irritating things like, "Don't be judgmental" (moral relativism) or offered simplistic assessments of how to deal with complicated problems.

Just like on this forum. "Get over it" and "News flash" -- similar language, same simplistic, self-righteous attitude. Right?

 

[Bro. Gregory]

Ebike Speed Restrictions and Throttle Band

I believe we should be allowed modifications due getting out of a jam. Like big dogs jumping out at us. Cars almost flattening us, seems like you can't put enough lights on these bikes. I'm UberEATS courier ebike food delivery man. And it's the wild wild West survival of the realest dedicated survival people. God bless America in Jesus name amen

 

[Chargeride]

I was only just thinking of that a full.power boost you can use once a day.

 

[Sparky731]

I was only just thinking of that a full.power boost you can use once a day.

THC gummies can do that. Enhanced rides are a wonderful way to re-awake the regular ride. I never ride unenhanced.

 

[Gionnirocket]

This thread cracks me up.
Behavior needs regulation not trivial hardware differences.
How many cars are on the market capable of far exceeding the speed limit?
I own a 1000w ebike with a throttle and a sports car capable of 170mph and use both responsibly.
The sky isn't falling and with today's problems how this drivel is even on the radar baffles me.
Your reality may vary. . .

 

[Chargeride]

Ive been driving my mother daily to hospital and the quickest route is through a visually magnificent but very dodgy area, there are ordinary ebikes everywhere quite clearly unrestricted, being pedalled, but touching 35mph.

Theres no way Im venturing there to make videos on my 15mph Haibike.

Like a sitting duck.

 

[jabberwocky]

This thread cracks me up.
Behavior needs regulation not trivial hardware differences.
How many cars are on the market capable of far exceeding the speed limit?
I own a 1000w ebike with a throttle and a sports car capable of 170mph and use both responsibly.
The sky isn't falling and with today's problems how this drivel is even on the radar baffles me.
Your reality may vary. . .

The problem with this "regulate behavior and ignore power/limits!" mindset is that ebikers want access to a bunch of infrastructure that is not setup for car-style behavior regulation/enforcement because it has never been needed. MUPs/bike paths/MTB trails/etc have been around for decades and never needed speed limits and enforcement because human biology is an adequate limit there. If ebikers want to be treated like non-powered bicycles and granted access to that infrastructure there will have to be limits. You can't seriously expect everyone else to just accept "I want access to this MUP but I alse refuse to accept limits on what I can ride so you'll just have to figure out how to setup and enforce behavioral limits!" as an argument.

If you just want to ride on roads, well, theres already an unlimited power option (motorcycles) and you just have to meet the legal requirements for those to be able to go as fast as your heart desires.

 

[Gionnirocket]

True... But I also don't see it as the evil that's being argued.
Using my philosophy I sometimes ride the horse trails by my house without issue and all bikes are not permitted. I ride a MUP daily.
Perhaps it's different in different parts of the country... but I don't understand all the alarm bells on both sides of this.