Throttles and California

[jabberwocky]

True... But I also don't see it as the evil that's being argued.
Using my philosophy I sometimes ride the horse trails by my house without issue and all bikes are not permitted. I ride a MUP daily.
Perhaps it's different in different parts of the country... but I don't understand all the alarm bells on both sides of this.

In most locales in the US you are probably fine to ride anything vaguely ebike-shaped most anywhere as long as you aren't riding like an idiot. Depends on the locals and how heavily used things are. Ebikes are common enough now that even if your Bafang Ultra isn't technically compliant, you are unlikely to attract attention unless you decide to throttle 25-30mph down the path around other trail users.

There are definitely places where things have gotten out of control, people are fed up and pushing for tighter regulation. Or at least enforcement of existing regulations. And its a super low hanging fruit for politicians to latch onto; the general populace hates everything that isn't a car, and other user groups (traditional cyclists, pedestrians, runners, etc) aren't going to go to bat for the "I wanna throttle 30mph everywhere!" crowd.

 

[JRA]

It's not just CA.....https://bikeportland.org/2025/01/14/oregon-bill-seeks-to-ban-class-3-e-bikes-from-sidewalks-bike-lanes-and-paths-392252

The comments support Jabberwockies post.

 

[Gionnirocket]

It's not just CA.....https://bikeportland.org/2025/01/14/oregon-bill-seeks-to-ban-class-3-e-bikes-from-sidewalks-bike-lanes-and-paths-392252

The comments support Jabberwockies post.

From that article...

How a law enforcement officer or judge could determine whether or not the motor was being used is unclear. Also unclear is the motivation behind this bill and what problem Senator Prozanski seeks to fix with these changes.

One lawyer and bicycle law expert I shared the bill language with said, “Removing right-of-way protection for Class 3 e-bikes in bike lanes, regardless of rider speed, has big implications for liability determination. And regulating based on e-bike class, rather than speed, is such an imprecise way to do it. How many people ride e-bikes they don’t realize are Class 3, and wouldn’t have the right-of-way in bike lanes under this bill, even if they’re only riding 15-20mph?”

If similar passed in my area, I'm fairly confident that law enforcement will enforce it based on behavior and not down to the letter. Just as they do now.
Laws are to maintain safety and harmony. And as long as that's the case.... Live and Let Live.

 

[Chargeride]

Looks like bbc did a hit job on ebikes by muddying the waters between electric motorbike thieves and pedal assist.

Typical bbc panorama nonsense, endless propaganda, just thrown the entire industry under the bus.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

So let me get this straight.

On the one hand, we argue that law enforcement and the legal system can't distinguish between various types of e-bikes but that means we shouldn't enforce any laws about e-bikes. On the other hand, we are shocked when the media and general public cannot distinguish between various types of e-bikes.

And we cry at the unfairness of it all...

 

[Chargeride]

Well the media should know better, but theyve decided not to.

 

[m@Robertson]

It seems strange that if I want to find anti-ebikers, this is the place where I would go.

 

[Gionnirocket]

As usual it's a vocal minority that stir up the s*it and get the ear of some d_bag politician trying to make a name for himself.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

It seems strange that if I want to find anti-ebikers, this is the place where I would go.

I don't consider myseld an "anti-ebiker". What I think I am doing is looking at what is going on and drawing conclusions.

What I see is a promising technology with multiple product safety issues and an extremely bad public image which is being made rapidly worse by many electric bike owners themselves. This is a product that is enjoyed by a very small minority of the population at best and we seem to be blissfully ignorant of how much our continued existence depends on tolerance and forbearance of the larger community.

According to the Google in 2024 it is estimated that 13.8 million bicycles of all types were sold in the Untied States. It is estimated that about 1.2 million of those were electric bikes. So not exactly overwhelming numbers. If you were optimistic and generous you could argue that as much as four or five percent of the US population regularly uses an e-bike. I'd guess the realistic number is half of that. Again not an overwhelming majority or any serious signs of a mass movement there. (sources from the Google).

A lot of folks on this forum live in a pretty odd information bubble. The folks here aren't even representative of the vast majority of e-bikers and to the population at large we are just another oddball group on the Internet with an eccentric and possibly hazardous hobby.

 

[jabberwocky]

It seems strange that if I want to find anti-ebikers, this is the place where I would go.

I'm definitely not "anti-ebikers". To the contrary, I want to see access expanded as far as possible. I'm just realistic about the fact the limitations on what is considered an ebike is key to that happening. As Mr. Coffee said, if the general public can't distinguish between a legit class 2 and a Super 73 (or Surron), thats really bad for us as a group.

 

[PedalUma]

Specialized is coming up with a firmware update for all Globe Haul cargo bikes with a throttle. Cargo moms can now do 28. With the upgrade they will not have any pedal assist and can only do up to 20 in California. Someone is likely to get a Phoenix IP VPN and shipper to sell many popular brand's kits with preprogramed controllers, throttles, and displays for desert off road users.

 

[Chargeride]

We have played it out in the UK after several deaths of teenagers on Surrons while being tailed or recently tailed by the police, the press always call them electric bicycles, which results in the clickbait backlash they are looking for.
People respond with correct descriptions and then find themselves media twisted into rightwingers who want kids dead for riding that lovely christmas present their mum got them, complete with picture of the lad in his school uniform when he was seven.

This just results in non cycling public association of every ebike as some death weapon either too dangerous for youths to ride or the goto weapon of choice for street muggers.

Panorama is watched entirely by that group, bbc dramadocumentary, complete with emotive music and ludicrous generalisations passed off as serious journalism, which the bbc threw in the bin decades ago.

One of my Ex's called at mine , saw my bike and said.
'Ewww, youve got a phone snatcher bike'.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

One of my Ex's called at mine , saw my bike and said.
'Ewww, youve got a phone snatcher bike'.

She would have never said that if you rode a Levo

 

[Chargeride]

She would have said.
Eww those tyres are skinny

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Eww those tyres are skinny

2.6" skinny? Oh well, at least not a phone snatcher
You see, with the kind of e-bikes you rode before, you were snatching a phone with your left hand and then rotated the throttle with the other hand to escape!

 

[Gionnirocket]

She would have said.
Eww those tyres are skinny

Or eww... I had my suspensions that you were partial to putting in the rough

 

[Mr. Coffee]

This just results in non cycling public association of every ebike as some death weapon either too dangerous for youths to ride or the goto weapon of choice for street muggers.

Unfortunately, in the Real World it is well-understood that if you are explaining, you are losing.

Public mass media is an ineffective tool for communicating subtle differences or fine technical points to large populations. We will never win the argument in that venue.

 

[Chargeride]

2.6" skinny? Oh well, at least not a phone snatcher
You see, with the kind of e-bikes you rode before, you were snatching a phone with your left hand and then rotated the throttle with the other hand to escape!

Keep your eyes open next week, I know where you are.

 

[Chargeride]

guardian article.

Please don’t hit me!’ The battle between ebikers and other cyclists.​

Don't hit me...don't run into me doesn't have that balaclava baseball bat feel to it.

I just love reading through the Guards opinion pieces, it's like a test case for subliminal brainwashing.

'If e-cyclists are more aggressive and less expert than pedal cyclists, it hasn’t shown up in accident data.'

'If you’ve been terrorised by an ebike over a certain distance, it’s most likely a private bike whose speed limit has been disabled.'
Terrorised

And the endless favourite, how much more civilised continental Europe is..
'Many people point to cities where bikes, cars, pedestrians, mopeds and ebikes seem to get along better – Amsterdam, Paris
and similar places with mature cycling cultures and policies aimed at promoting bike use.'

Seriously have you ever driven or cycled in Paris!
I notice they didn't mention Italy, its in the bad books at the moment.

‘Please don’t hit me!’ The battle between ebikers and other cyclists

Ebike rentals are thought to have reduced car use – but caused consternation among some pedestrians and other road users. How can everyone get along?

www.theguardian.com

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Seriously have you ever driven or cycled in Paris!

Have you cycled in Warsaw, for instance? Because I cycled in London, Copenhagen, and Berlin, and rode e-scooters in Frankfurt and Helsinki I may have the perspective you are missing

P.S. Never confuse driving with cycling. Two completely different things. In the capital city of Poland, you can ride from the very south to the very north of the city and never leave dedicated bike paths (except one short segment with a minimal traffic).