Throttle wheelies

[Dynz]

Thanks @Gionnirocket, helpful as per!

 

[m@Robertson]

You can take the throttle up to 42 and it makes for a much finer, granular control. This will be about balance and very fine control of the throttle not power.

 

[Gionnirocket]

You can take the throttle up to 42 and it makes for a much finer, granular control. This will be about balance and very fine control of the throttle not power.

I saw no difference between 38 and 42... so it really is dependent on the voltage output of the particular throttle.
But with the stock thumb throttle I believe you are correct that it will go to 42

 

[Dynz]

So I just got the cable and upon connecting, the PC won't seem to recognise it.

I installed the XP driver listed here and also installed the universal chip driver from here, but to no avail. I tried connecting/disconnecting and restarting but the tool won't load either one of the 2 COM ports listed. I launched the tool as administrator every time.

Any thoughts on what might be going on?

 

[Dynz]

Update - I found the driver after doing some more digging! It works now. Give me a shout if anyone needs it.

 

[m@Robertson]

I saw no difference between 38 and 42... so it really is dependent on the voltage output of the particular throttle.
But with the stock thumb throttle I believe you are correct that it will go to 42

4.2v is the max input the motor controller accepts. So you set it to that and let the aftermarket throttle decide what your max is. My little cheapie Bafang thumb throttles are dramatically better with this. Check out the End Voltage discussion in Karl Gesslein's programming guide he goes over this in a bit more detail:

A Hacker’s Guide To Programming The BBS02 & BBSHD

One way that the BBS02 middrive unit shines over other competition like the Bosch is the ability to program the controller yourself. Although the process of programming the controller will void any…

electricbike-blog.com

Also the controller starts accepting input at 1.1v so there's no point in setting it lower for the same reason. Motor can't use it.

 

[Dynz]

Update - I found the driver after doing some more digging! It works now. Give me a shout if anyone needs it.

Find download in this thread.

 

[Gionnirocket]

4.2v is the max input the motor controller accepts. So you set it to that and let the aftermarket throttle decide what your max is. My little cheapie Bafang thumb throttles are dramatically better with this. Check out the End Voltage discussion in Karl Gesslein's programming guide he goes over this in a bit more detail:

A Hacker’s Guide To Programming The BBS02 & BBSHD

One way that the BBS02 middrive unit shines over other competition like the Bosch is the ability to program the controller yourself. Although the process of programming the controller will void any…

electricbike-blog.com

Also the controller starts accepting input at 1.1v so there's no point in setting it lower for the same reason. Motor can't use it.

Well that article and what has been rehashed as presumed fact is years old and may not be relevant anymore as there has been updates to the motor/controllers. I can tell you for certain that my throttle starts sooner and is smoother with a wider range when set to 0.9v.
And if the controller is looking for 4.2v as 100% and the throttle doesn't output 4.2v... then the motor will not output 100%
That is the whole point of having these as adjustable settings.

 

[m@Robertson]

Well that article and what has been rehashed as presumed fact is years old and may not be relevant anymore. I can tell you for certain that my throttle starts sooner and is smoother with a wider range when set to 0.9v.
And if the controller is looking for 4.2v as 100% and the throttle doesn't output 4.2v... then the motor will not output 100%
That is the whole point of having these as adjustable settings.

Bottom line: Widen the throttle settings and its a dramatic, night/day difference. I have yet to see anywhere that the 4.2v max has changed, from any source that tests such things. Is there one? That article comes from 2015 but it used a number of very knowledgeable sources in the DIY industry. What has been contradicted within it? The only things I have seen are disagreements about how to use settings, not their possible ranges. Hell... I pretty much use none of the assist level settings and go a completely different way. But thats a decision on personal use, not hardware capability.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Bottom line: Widen the throttle settings and its a dramatic, night/day difference. I have yet to see anywhere that the 4.2v max has changed, from any source that tests such things. Is there one? That article comes from 2015 but it used a number of very knowledgeable sources in the DIY industry. What has been contradicted within it? The only things I have seen are disagreements about how to use settings, not their possible ranges. Hell... I pretty much use none of the assist level settings and go a completely different way. But thats a decision on personal use, not hardware capability.

I just contradicted it... My throttle works with a Smoother wider range set as stated.
From your article...
"If you use an aftermarket throttle you will need to test to see what voltage the hall sensor throttle is giving off at full throttle and set this number slightly lower than that voltage shown on the meter (times 10)."
Not sure why you think what you think...

 

[m@Robertson]

So I just got the cable and upon connecting, the PC won't seem to recognise it.

Any thoughts on what might be going on?

This is not particularly helpful to your immediate question, but your experience is exactly why I decided to pony up the $100 (at the time) for the Luna dedicated programming tool. Now, 4 or 5 motors later I am really glad I did. For starters I can more easily pack it along with a new motor and tinker during a ride, whereas before I would have to leave the laptop at the house and loop back to make a change. I just pull over, do a quick plugin and job done. Much easier to use. Its inability to store more than one custom EL file is made up for by me snapping pics of the screens with my phone.

I used to have an ancient mini-mini laptop that ran on Windows XP that I used for my car's hot rod tuning. Exact same problem with cable/driver recognition and I solved it with a dedicated computer that was frozen in time (then I lost the freaking special CAN bus cable). You could do that if you have an older laptop that you can dedicate to bike tuning. Not the most palatable option I know.

 

[Dynz]

This is not particularly helpful to your immediate question, but your experience is exactly why I decided to pony up the $100 (at the time) for the Luna dedicated programming tool.

No worries, the driver I uploaded earlier fixed my issue entirely. And I paid a mere 15 quid for the cable. Whatever works!

 

[m@Robertson]

I just contradicted it... My throttle works with a Smoother wider range set as stated.
From your article...
"If you use an aftermarket throttle you will need to test to see what voltage the hall sensor throttle is giving off at full throttle and set this number slightly lower than that voltage shown on the meter (times 10)."
Not sure why you think what you think...

Right back at you. I already said you let the throttle decide what your max is. Set the controller to its widest range. 11 and 42. If your throttle is capable of that then you'll get that range. if not you'll get whatever it gives you.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Right back at you. I already said you let the throttle decide what your max is. Set the controller to its widest range. 11 and 42. If your throttle is capable of that then you'll get that range. if not you'll get whatever it gives you.

I'm sorry but I don't believe that you understand the throttle voltage settings function.
It is stated correctly in the article that you referenced and as I am trying to explain.

 

[Merle Nelson]

Just wondering how he has the wheel come up so effortlessly , no pedaling or anything. I'm thinking I need some more torque or program the throttle so it kicks in sooner or at higher percentage, I don't know.

In the Sondors Rockstar thread there is a video of a guy trying to do wheelies on a new Rockstar and getting little burps of air etc. At one point he opined that possibly wheelies couldn't be done on ebikes. (He was new to ebikes.)

On another video in that thread where they showcased the three new Sondors mid motor bikes together a guy pulls a wheelie in a pedal stroke or so and just keeps it going for apparently as long as he likes - looked like almost all balance to me. (Also a Rockstar.)

 

[Gionnirocket]

In the Sondors Rockstar thread there is a video of a guy trying to do wheelies on a new Rockstar and getting little burps of air etc. At one point he opined that possibly wheelies couldn't be done on ebikes. (He was new to ebikes.)

On another video in that thread where they showcased the three new Sondors mid motor bikes together a guy pulls a wheelie in a pedal stroke or so and just keeps it going for apparently as long as he likes - looked like almost all balance to me. (Also a Rockstar.)

I think it requires "being" an eBike "Rockstar"

 

[Merle Nelson]

Then Dynz is in.

 

[m@Robertson]

I'm sorry but I don't believe that you understand the throttle voltage settings function.
It is stated correctly in the article that you referenced and as I am trying to explain.

OK so what am I missing?

The controller as-reported can accept signals from a range of 1.1v to 4.2v. The throttle of your choice either does that, or does something different and we know not precisely what unless you test it. With that said, the range remains 1.1v to 4.2v regardless of what the throttle does. So if the throttle has a wider range top and bottom (or either side), the controller will not act on values outside of its accepted range. It will act on values inside of its range, so if the throttle has a smaller value on either end, thats what the controller will use. So lets say we set a range of 11 and 42. If the throttle has the ability to signal a range of 8 and 42, the motor will not act on 8-10.99 but will act on 11-42. Likewise if the throttle has a range of 8 to 40, the same holds true, (i.e. response begins at 11) but the max throttle will be the max the mechanical device is capable of registering. So effective range will be 11-40 thanks to the hardware limitation regardless of the values in the BBSHD settings interface.

On the other side of the fence, if the controller in fact supports a wider range than 11-42, the same sort of limits will govern. In the end, to fully know the edges of the envelope, so to speak, you have to test both sides.

In my case I am taking it as a given the limits are as stated on the motor side as I haven't heard of any test that finds to the contrary.

 

[MartsEbike]

In the Sondors Rockstar thread there is a video of a guy trying to do wheelies on a new Rockstar and getting little burps of air etc. At one point he opined that possibly wheelies couldn't be done on ebikes. (He was new to ebikes.)

On another video in that thread where they showcased the three new Sondors mid motor bikes together a guy pulls a wheelie in a pedal stroke or so and just keeps it going for apparently as long as he likes - looked like almost all balance to me. (Also a Rockstar.)

On ebikes you need to disconnect the brake sensors to wheelie. Otherwise its hard (impossible) to modulate the power and braking.

 

[m@Robertson]

I don't know if anything ever came of this, but it sure rocked the house when the video (link in the thread) came out. Looked like it was just about ready for market and then Covid.

Automatic Wheelie control / Launch control module Beta testing

I've been quiet but I've been busy since HubSinks! they are related though because as i kept adding power, i needed more control The 4th version of the Wheelie Box / Launch Control Module is done after almost 2 years, its fully potted and shock/waterproof now and i'm ready to start organising...

endless-sphere.com