Throttle that works

[bexamous]

A biased outlook clouds your conclusion 'you didn't and still don't like throttles'.

I want a throttle that doesn't suck. I bought all the ones I could and they're all junk. But yes I did not try any twist-grips.

 

[Fast n' Furious]

KW swapped a Honeywell SS49E hall sensor in their throttle for better response. The response curve of the sensor in the stock throttle has very little response in the beginning and end or its range so the actual response curve is kind of steep (small wiggles in the throttle position amount to larger changes is throttle voltage output) and the SS49E is much more linear, so you get more consistent response through the entire range of throttle, without those 'dead zones' at the ends there the response curve is much more flat.

Unfortunately there's not a huge amount of throttles out there that combine reasonable footprint with linear response. I really like the ones on this Polish PEV parts retailer https://e-bikestuff.com/en/12-throttles but they seem to be all out of stock. Throttle mapping would be a really really powerful feature for the X1 controller to keep it competitive with VESC tool. I've seen some people take rheostat/potentiometer twist throttles and print clamp-on thumb paddles for them, but this is the bulkiest option and requires a 3/4 grip that can accommodate it.

I want a throttle that doesn't suck. I bought all the ones I could and they're all junk. But yes I did not try any twist-grips.

I agree.
Domino's are being used on Suron bikes. There are numerous articles and youtube vids.
It seems the very short throw helps. I noticed the same thing with various twist grip types. Shorter throw types were a lot smoother.

 

[kwseattle]

Kwseattle you did that mod yourself right? Does anyone make these throttles for purchase?

Yes I did, I used the stock throttle that came with the bike. Haven't been on the forums much lately!

 

[scrambler]

I agree.
Domino's are being used on Suron bikes. There are numerous articles and youtube vids.
It seems the very short throw helps. I noticed the same thing with various twist grip types. Shorter throw types were a lot smoother.

I have a domino throttle on my bike and it is extremely smooth.

 

[Deacon Blues]

Would a Domino throttle work with our Ultra motors with the Archon X1 controller?

 

[scrambler]

Most likely but it could require tuning in the controller, so having the cooperation of WW would be preferable.
There are also two Domino throttles, one that based on a potentiometer (the one I have) and is the least expensive, and one base on a hall sensor.

 

[loamoaf]

Here's the wiring diagram for the M620 connections. Just need to solder the julet on correctly. @scrambler is the Domino throttle pretty much married to the grip that comes with it or does it look like there's any way to remove the grip? Would be worth a try to switch it over to a thumb throttle or at least a half twist. I imagine the potentiometer based throttle is smoother and the innards take up a little more space (nature of potentiometer vs hall sensor). Strange to me the pot based one is cheaper considering hall sensors are dirt cheap and have no moving parts

 

[scrambler]

I replaced the grip on mine, with the ones below

Amazon.com: Pro Grip RVGS Gel Grips Model 719 - Closed End - Black/Yellow 719BKYL : Automotive

Buy Pro Grip RVGS Gel Grips Model 719 - Closed End - Black/Yellow 719BKYL: Grips - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

smile.amazon.com

so no issue there.
You do need a grip with the increased inside diameter of course.
I did have to cut the existing grip off, but then slid the new one on without problem using alcohol.

Depending on the exact voltage range of the existing throttle, the zero and max throttle values may need adjustment in the controller.
I don't know if these are exposed in the Archon programming software.

Below are a couple of articles on throttle that may hold good information. The second one may be of help if there is no controller access for the throttle parameters.

Guide to Hall Sensor Throttle operation, testing, and modification. - Electricbike.com Ebike Forum

***** 8-16-2018 Welcome to the Hall Sensor Throttle Thread! If there is something you'd like to add, correct, needs better explanation, or have a question about... feel free to Private Message me. Better yet, open a new thread in the "Trouble Shooting...

electricbike.com

How to make a potentiometer type throttle work as a hall sensor type throttle - Electricbike.com Ebike Forum

Originally posted by ErikJon so I’m installing a domino throttle on my Chineses stealth bomber clone. I hooked it all up the way it’s supposed to be and turn it on... I get an error code. As soon as I twist the throttle it goes away and starts the wheel spinning until I get to about three...

electricbike.com

 

[JRA]

This is one of the ones I got from that guy in Poland. $35 and works great for what I use it for which is while starting off, as a walk assist and the occasional burp while actually underway. Well built and for my needs perfect as I use a grip shift and need as slim a design as possible so that my brake mount isn't shoved too far down the bar as to make it only a one finger lever.

And it was plug and play with the M620/M600 series as well as BBS02, BBSHD etc..

 

[loamoaf]

Really nice! Apparently they're out on holidy until next week I'll have to shoot them an email and see if they have any in stock. Like you I really just want a throttle for walk assist or to get moving on very technical terrain where pedaling may cause a strike. I'm going to see about leveraging my bike to tow supplies to assist with some volunteer trail work from time to time as well. I was out a couple weekends ago an came across a Canycom BFP602 just... out there... 5 miles in and 4000' up an often tight and winding trail. I can't imagine it being too fun huffing exhaust from that thing for 2+ hours to get it there, though I don't think I can outdo a 1000lb payload... more quickly hauling tools and food/water for day jobs that use downed trees and rocks already in the area than bringing bring that and a half dozen bags of crushed stone and 4x4's - getting some stuff to less accessible areas.

While I've got no doubt in the quality of the Domino I can't stomach $110+ for a throttle when it won't even work on my setup without modification. I checked their site apparently they sell different throttle tubes (the twisty part that the grip slips over) which leads me to believe they're removable and you may be able to get it down to just the budy and a little twisty bit the throttle tube fits on. This would make it easy to print a little thumb paddle for it but there's no guarantee it'll work with the X1 nicely and even then still seems fairly clunky like the other thumb throttles out there. I've got a pair of SQLab 710 grips and the 410 horns and don't want to have to sacrifice comfy contact points for a throttle - especially when I probably won't use it at all bikepacking.

One thing I do notice from the picture is the lever is looking a little misaligned from the clamp/body of the throttle - how sturdy would you say the thing is? Looks like it may have a little side to side play. I was kind of digging the other throttle they had with the post instead of the paddle.

 

[tomjasz]

This is one of the ones I got from that guy in Poland. $35 and works great for what I use it for which is while starting off, as a walk assist and the occasional burp while actually underway. Well built and for my needs perfect as I use a grip shift and need as slim a design as possible so that my brake mount isn't shoved too far down the bar as to make it only a one finger lever.

View attachment 130953


And it was plug and play with the M620/M600 series as well as BBS02, BBSHD etc..

Link?

 

[loamoaf]

@tomjasz https://e-bikestuff.com/en/12-throttles but looks like they are out on holidy until next week so the store is inaccessible. They've got several different plug versions and then the thumb paddle one pictures above as well as a 'trigger' which isn't as much of a trigger as it is the same kind of lever just with a post wrapped in rubber gripper sticking out of the side. Looks like you could flip it either way and run it as an index finger trigger or a thumb throttle.

This is what the other version looks like

 

[vincent]

Just fyi that thin throttle also works on the M400, that is the one I put on my tern bike

 

[Fast n' Furious]

I did in February the first time the OP posted about their throttle problems but here it is again.
View attachment 128225

My understanding, your settings should be:

• Throttle Mode: Speed
• Start Voltage: 15 (=1,5V)
• End Voltage: 45 (=4,5V) (4,99V w CAV3 stuff)

You're shutting down nearly 30% early from base 'vanilla flavor' - but it should be smooth because you're using 'SPEED' for the mode.
When "Throttle Mode" is set to CURRENT, the throttle grip reacts like a switch - ON or OFF.
When "Throttle Mode" is set to SPEED, the throttle operation is smooth and can be adjusted with the grip.
So, that's 90% of the battle won.
..........................................................................................................................
Additional tuning is pretty simple, installing a 470 - 560 Ohm resistor between Bafang RED and throttle BLUE - "otherwise the error 04 is shown very quick (less throttle ramp)." This trick was reiterated a second time - "Some controllers have problems with the full voltage of the poti - a 470/560 Ohm resistor is recommended".
Next, If you add a second 100 Ohm resistor between the BLUE/BLACK and RED/BLUE wires, then you can use the full throttle range.
This will also make the throttle react earlier.
----------------------------------------------------------
I took these notes from a Germany company's site my bud ordered his Domino IP67 0 - 5ohm from.
I think it's common knowledge in Germany/ Austria.

 

[Gionnirocket]

I know we've discussed this before, but has anyone found a throttle that works well with the Ultra motor with the X1 controller?
By works well, I mean a throttle that's smooth in operation and can hold a speed without the motor surging.

From what I'm understanding the X1 is the terd here and is not set to work with off the shelf Bafang compatible throttles. Then not having access to the Throttle Settings just adds to the frustration.
What is the WW response?

 

[JRA]

My throttle in fact does have a bit of a list to it. Seems sturdy enough though just after inspecting it for comment. As you can see in the pix that one is straight. I guess I have to fess up to the fact that end of the bars has seen the ground a few times. But it really isn't in harms way unless you maybe dump it into some brush.

As far as the extended design personally I bi-passed that option. The way the inline one works, for me, is while I actuate it with my thumb it is the outer thumbf that gets used not the pad or grip. This allows me to approach the bars with my thumb mostly under the bar for a good grip, getting older you know and don't want to fall of in the first 20'.

The guy who makes them is very easy to communicate with and even has some fun color options available as well as plugs for a few of the most common systems so be careful to stress you want one set for a Bafang if ordering.

Caveat disclaimer is that I have the standard thumb pad type on my drop bar bikes that don't have PAS as they fit the situation better.

 

[Fast n' Furious]

No it won't but I had stated in my other post that I have a UART M620 so I thought you might have one also.

They are likely the same in any event.

Domino Premium Full Twist Grip Throttle

Domino - the full twist Throttle for your E-Bike Original product from Domino (Italy) - designed for motor bikes, but also usable with E-Bikes. For the real…

fasterbikes.eu

Adjust Bafang Controller settings (Throttle):

• Throttle Mode: Speed
• Start Voltage: 15 (=1,5V)
• End Voltage: 45 (=4,5V)

// // //

 

[loamoaf]

oof - shipment is killing me on the throttle order! Finally got a hold of the guy and got an invoice, 50 euro! If he had more than just a few I'd order all he has and resale here to get some money back and get people throttles without that nasty shipping charge... Hope it's worth it - I think having the thing to see how it's made and take some measurements has value of its own. I would like to print up a different lever for it once I figure out placement so it's a perfect fit for me, and being able to see how it's made I can just copy the sensor to magnet range of distance and use that in my own design. Printing would be much cheaper, $1 sensor, $1 magnet, $3 lead, $1 screw for the clamp, a little solder & heat shrink, and some glue - or if I'm smart with it a well-hidden zip-tie inside.

 

[Fast n' Furious]

Deacon, your question regards the Ultra motor and the X1 Controller.
Luna says all Luna Right Twist Throttle For BBSHD and BBS02 throttles will work with Bafang Ultra motors.
Since Innotrace allows a thumb throttle, other throttles will certainly work.
Because of the Ultra's input/ instant torque power, thumb throttles - while wonderful on low powered bikes - have problems 'cruising' etc.
It's that it's 'right now' power. Where my MXUS powered bike will generate 100nm at it's peak, with a lag to get there and impossible to maintain, the X1, detuned to "100Nm max" is set to 'cut off' at 100nm and is just idling.
Under $100 Twist Grip types that work well with my 100nm bike may not with your 'instant on power' and you can't really use quality grips with any of them.
-
Next step up is Magura and Domino.
Both are still holding around 100 - $120. Domino seems to lead in online consensus. It's specifically 'tunable' (via resistors) to smooth the response of higher torque machines. This YouTube Surron Domino Shootout - starting at 20:00 to see the results.
-
I talked with another member who has the programming down on his Hydra and he pretty much confirms the X1's upper v setting is NA.
Likely you'll have the typical '40v' default setting - 40% lower than 56.6v full charge potential - but the max recommended is 45v.
So, as batteries go down to say 48v, the throttle limited to 40v (now at -20%) feels more responsive.
I wouldn't say that, but I noticed and documented the effect a while back.
Can't speak to below 46v - where I always recharge - but right up to it (now at -15%), throttle input become more noticeably prominent.
Another point - I lost the site - recently made was riding a bike throttle only consumed less wattage than rider using torque assist.
Incredible huh?

FnF

 

[Fast n' Furious]

If you install a decent twist-throttle, be aware for safety sake the throttle needs cut-out wiring and so do your brakes. This ain't cheap, so if your frugal read no more. I'm seeing $275 for the MT5e, front adapter and Disk. $130 for the throttle.
A 'front' e-brake (I'm installing Magura MT5e) and a compatible throttle (like the Domino 0-5ohm ip67) are a must.
When you grasp the rear (left side) brake lever, you automatically release the throttle, it returns to zero. No problem. But not the front brake.
If you are turning and apply the front brake while still inadvertently on the throttle, the power from the rear pushes front wheel into a 'tuck'.
The front is the dangerous brake that must be idiot proof.
These Magura brakes are only natural for higher quality/ performance e bikes.