Throttle problem

[Deacon Blues]

The only time I use the throttle on my UC Pro is to get started from a stop. Yesterday, on the way back home from a ride, I tried riding without pedalling and only using the throttle, just to see what it felt like.
When starting from a stop the power output is smooth, but at a constant speed the power output was really jerky.
It felt like I was riding a gas powered motorcycle with ignition issues.

When I fully depress the throttle lever the power delivery is smooth, but when I try to hold a constant speed the power delivery is really jerky.

Any ideas on what's wrong?

Ron

 

[Gionnirocket]

The only time I use the throttle on my UC Pro is to get started from a stop. Yesterday, on the way back home from a ride, I tried riding without pedalling and only using the throttle, just to see what it felt like.
When starting from a stop the power output is smooth, but at a constant speed the power output was really jerky.
It felt like I was riding a gas powered motorcycle with ignition issues.

When I fully depress the throttle lever the power delivery is smooth, but when I try to hold a constant speed the power delivery is really jerky.

Any ideas on what's wrong?

Ron

My first instinct would be too replace the throttle as it seems the output is flawed.
Possible moisture damage?

 

[pennybags]

My first instinct would be too replace the throttle as it seems the output is flawed.
Possible moisture damage?

If the throttle is working fine when pushed all the way then the throttle assembly is fine.

IMO feathering the throttle manually is not precise - and it is by definition very jerky. I believe there are only 2 hall sensors not he throttle so it won't be smooth at all if you do it manually.

I was looking for another post here from way way back when WW had mentioned that for the throttle, just push it and let the controller do the job. Feathering is not advised.

I have restricted my throttle power by assist levels with the new software - it is a good approximation but that is how far I can get.

 

[Gionnirocket]

If the throttle is working fine when pushed all the way then the throttle assembly is fine.

IMO feathering the throttle manually is not precise - and it is by definition very jerky. I believe there are only 2 hall sensors not he throttle so it won't be smooth at all if you do it manually.

I was looking for another post here from way way back when WW had mentioned that for the throttle, just push it and let the controller do the job. Feathering is not advised.

I have restricted my throttle power by assist levels with the new software - it is a good approximation but that is how far I can get.

On the BBSO2B (all I have experience with) I can feather and maintain the throttle at any point in rotation with consistent output... though my experience has only been for 30 seconds or so.
I'm also using a half twist throttle, not the stock thumb terd

 

[tomjasz]

I'm also using a half twist throttle, not the stock thumb terd

While twist throttles are readily available they were a slow selling option. I've had numerous reports of riders forgetting to shut their system down when putting their eBike up after a ride and inadvertently twisting the throttle and dumping their ride.

I'm wondering if you've toyed with any settings that improve throttle reponse?

 

[Deacon Blues]

I was trying to maintain a semi-steady 20 mph and was unable to do it, because of the jerky ride.
Tomjasz, I haven't because I have no idea how to do that.

 

[Gionnirocket]

While twist throttles are readily available they were a slow selling option. I've had numerous reports of riders forgetting to shut their system down when putting their eBike up after a ride and inadvertently twisting the throttle and dumping their ride.

I'm wondering if you've toyed with any settings that improve throttle reponse?

The half twist is much safer and imo better that the full twist. Also I got into the habit of holding the brake lever and switching to PAS 0 whenever I handle the bike.. Using those steps I haven't had any scares.
I don't use the throttle very often and my settings on the Throttle Page are typical. I do believe the elevated Stop Decay on the Pedal Assist Page has smooooth'd out the throttle as well.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Not my exact settings at use today... But close enough since personal tweaking is required anyway.
Gionni_Rocket Smoooth Ride

 

[JRA]

There are parameters within your controller that influence how the throttle responds. Only as an example here is what a UART throttle tab has to offer:



I would imagine that your Archon controller has a similar feature that you need to adjust? I know from messing with my settings that even small adjustments can make a big difference in how it reacts. Also any movement of the throttle at other than fully activated will be sensitive no matter what.

That is why relying solely on a throttle for power is not as good as PAS. However a throttle in conjunction with a cruise control feature that can set it similar to a car does works well I have found. I know of no mid drive systems that have that feature however, only hub drives.

 

[Gionnirocket]

There are parameters within your controller that influence how the throttle responds. Only as an example here is what a UART throttle tab has to offer:

View attachment 115545

I would imagine that your Archon controller has a similar feature that you need to adjust? I know from messing with my settings that even small adjustments can make a big difference in how it reacts. Also any movement of the throttle at other than fully activated will be sensitive no matter what.

That is why relying solely on a throttle for power is not as good as PAS. However a throttle in conjunction with a cruise control feature that can set it similar to a car does works well I have found. I know of no mid drive systems that have that feature however, only hub drives.

Just changing the Mode from Speed to Current would make a big difference.
Also adjusting the Start and End voltages to match your throttle will widen the range

edit: I would find this annoying on the X1 as it is easily correct'able with the stock controller

 

[AHicks]

The throttle on one of my bikes will act like an on/off switch when engaged while pedaling. If I STOP pedaling prior to using the throttle, it works exactly as expected.

 

[loamoaf]

@kwseattle modded their throttle with a Honeywell SS49E hall sensor for a much more linear response. The response on the stock one basically shows little sensitivity in the beginning & end of the range with a steep ramp in the middle. IIRC KW said the throttle smoothed things out and made it feel a little more useful across the range. There's the response curve from the throttle hall sensor, then there's how the software remaps that curve to interpret it for output. https://www.alliedelec.com/product/honeywell/ss49e/70238606/ - you can check the data sheet and it shows linear response from 0.95V-4V output range

My guess (still patiently waiting for my X1) is that changing to current mode will also more precisely give you a sense of throttle input -> motor power output (going uphill will result in lower speed for the same throttle input since it takes more power) - to me this sounds preferable because in my use case I'd only want a small amount of power from the throttle to get me out of a spot where I have no clearance to pedal - plus ensures you're never drawing more power than you expect to (even if throttle output is locked at 750W nominal)

 

[Ebiker33]

I was trying to maintain a semi-steady 20 mph and was unable to do it, because of the jerky ride.
Tomjasz, I haven't because I have no idea how to do that.

My Sondors is set to 20 mph(32km) in the controller, I push the throttle all the way to get my speed, yours can be set to that too, to cap the throttle speed, that should mitigate the issue.
It's also the law in BC too, so there is that too

 

[Deacon Blues]

Ebiker33, what would capping my throttle speed have anything to do with the erratic running of the motor that I'm experiencing at speeds below 32kph?

Why would Bafang put out a throttle that's an absolute piece of junk?
My wife and I both had Pedego ebikes in the past, which came with throttles and they worked flawlessly.
If Pedego can produce a bike with an excellent throttle why can't Bafang also design a quality throttle?

Since 99% of the time I don't use the throttle I'll leave it alone for now. I was hoping for an easy solution, like ordering a new throttle, but doing any deep-dives into the controller is something I wouldn't feel comfortable doing.

I'm thinking of ordering an X-Tour for my wife, but if it comes with the same piece-of-crap throttle I won't bother.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Ebiker33, what would capping my throttle speed have anything to do with the erratic running of the motor that I'm experiencing at speeds below 32kph?

Why would Bafang put out a throttle that's an absolute piece of junk?
My wife and I both had Pedego ebikes in the past, which came with throttles and they worked flawlessly.
If Pedego can produce a bike with an excellent throttle why can't Bafang also design a quality throttle?

Since 99% of the time I don't use the throttle I'll leave it alone for now. I was hoping for an easy solution, like ordering a new throttle, but doing any deep-dives into the controller is something I wouldn't feel comfortable doing.

I'm thinking of ordering an X-Tour for my wife, but if it comes with the same piece-of-crap throttle I won't bother.

If you have an X1 controller... That may be the problem as the stock Bafang does not.
The stock controller does require the correct settings which often aren't optimized when shipped, but this is easily done and is more of a shallow wade than deep dive
Do you know what you have?

 

[Deacon Blues]

I have an X1 controller.

 

[Gionnirocket]

I have an X1 controller.

Well I guess you gotta take the crooked with the straights.
I think an email to WW will give you your best answer and options.

 

[tomjasz]

Why would Bafang put out a throttle that's an absolute piece of junk?

Why would Bafang make hardware and firmware changes and not inform resellers?
Why won't Bafang release changes in hardware and firmware by motor serial numbers?
Why has Bafang limited user access to programing parameters?
Why did Bafang ship motors for several years with inadequate lubrication?

 

[Gionnirocket]

Why would Bafang make hardware and firmware changes and not inform resellers?
Why won't Bafang release changes in hardware and firmware by motor serial numbers?
Why has Bafang limited user access to programing parameters?
Why did Bafang ship motors for several years with inadequate lubrication?

All true... But this sounds like it's on Watt Wagon

 

[AHicks]

All true... But this sounds like it's on Watt Wagon

My thought as well. Bafang supplies the motors. From there it's about a long list of options available to the bike manf.