Thoughts?

[yyf926]

New poster. I just ordered a R&M GT Rohloff HS. The idea is to replace my car on my four mile one way commute to work on well maintained bike paths and mostly well maintained roads. I'm in my 60s so I want comfort. I face some hills so I opted for the HS power to handle them.

I'm a big guy and will with my gear test the weight limit of the bike. Currently, I'm scheduled to receive my bike in May, 2020. I like the step through of the Nevo. While I could put my leg over the Delite frame easily enough, I don't want to think about what a fast stop would feel like were I to hit the bar.

I've been working with my local bike shop and have been very pleased. They had an Homage but it felt too much for my needs. Plus the Nevo in white looks like the ebike rentals sponsored by the city of Madison, so it obtains a bit of natural camouflage.

My questions are these. 1. Should I wait until the Gen 4 motor is available even if that is a year. Please explain; 2. The bike now comes with the Intuvia display and no options to upgrade. How big a deal is that? I will ask these same questions to the local shop who sold me the bike.

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[VarioHSDelite]

My wife & I have a 2018 Delite with a HS motor, but with a Nuvinci/Enviolo trans, which introduces considerably more power loss. We also have a Diamondback Lindau EXC 48v 500w hub motor. Opinion as follows.

TL/DR: I'd wait and at least test drive the Gen4 HS before committing.

I commute 8 miles one way on the Diamondback but have occasionally taken the Delite on this commute. I too am commuting to work and want a leisurely ride.. I am dressed in business attire and interested in getting to work in the shortest amount of time with the least amount of effort while still doing at least something. Both bikes are slow, with the R&M being even more underpowered at critical moments, particularly the hills. Being you mentioned hills in your commute I strongly suggest waiting on the Gen4s.

The R&M, even with the lossy transmission, carries along on flat ground reasonably well, though I would prefer another 5-8mph without any more effort on my part. The Rohloff might make up a few of those MPH, but the effort required on the rider's part seems to be too much for a commuter. See here for other member's opinion of maintaining those speeds with your same setup.

As for the second question, I don't see the need in spending any more on the displays.. I really only need the battery level and miles remaining out of the display; all other info like my speed, my route with time/distance remaining, phone calls, music etc. comes from my phone attached with a RAMMOUNT.

 

[Willadams1]

I have a Superdelite HS rohloff Gen4, it’s a great bike and can hit some great speeds. My commute is 44 miles round trip, which uses around 80% of my battery - I have to be very sparing with turbo mode and even sport mode to ensure I can make it back! (Can’t charge at work ....)
Kiox is nice, and looks great. The main reason I went for the kiox is for the battery percentage on the display.

 

[Alaskan]

Don't wait. You are in your sixties. Getting on a bike is highly likely to improve your health and vitality and extend the fully active years of your life. Get started now. You never know what will happen in the next year that might interfere with your plans to get on a bike. No time like the present. Don't succumb to analysis paralysis. They will always be making better bikes. Jump in now. The Rohloff has 10% less power loss than the Vario/Enviolo/Nuvinci. If you get a bike with the Intuvia and find you really want a display upgrade, the Nyon can be easily added for under $200 and is really the fullest function, max information Bosch display ever made. Some prefer basic, minimal info. Others can't get enough. Decide which one you are later. Get riding!

 

[dblhelix]

New poster. I just ordered a R&M GT Rohloff HS. The idea is to replace my car on my four mile one way commute to work on well maintained bike paths and mostly well maintained roads. I'm in my 60s so I want comfort. I face some hills so I opted for the HS power to handle them.

I'm a big guy and will with my gear test the weight limit of the bike. Currently, I'm scheduled to receive my bike in May, 2020. I like the step through of the Nevo. While I could put my leg over the Delite frame easily enough, I don't want to think about what a fast stop would feel like were I to hit the bar.

I've been working with my local bike shop and have been very pleased. They had an Homage but it felt too much for my needs. Plus the Nevo in white looks like the ebike rentals sponsored by the city of Madison, so it obtains a bit of natural camouflage.

My questions are these. 1. Should I wait until the Gen 4 motor is available even if that is a year. Please explain; 2. The bike now comes with the Intuvia display and no options to upgrade. How big a deal is that? I will ask these same questions to the local shop who sold me the bike.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Greetings. I own your bike and rode it on your bike trail system last summer. Madison is right in between two trail systems that take you across most of the state: Military Ridge and Drumlin Glacial. The extensive Madison bike pathway system makes connecting a breeze. I have ridden through 3X, both on regular and ebikes. There are two benefits to the new motor: increased torque and drag reduction when riding without power assist. Neither are necessary immediately for you. Your commute is only 4 miles and your bike path network is well-maintained. Climb gradients are gentle to moderate for the most part. It sounds like in worst-case scenario, you’re an easy push from home/bike shop.

Regarding the Nyon, availability on eBay (used 1GB, reasonably priced) fluctuates. I had cause to look recently. No Nyon units under $300+ although the switching units appeared to be in plentiful supply from various locations overseas. I’d start watching eBay now for the sub-$100 Nyon units that appear from time to time.

 

[yyf926]

Don't wait. You are in your sixties. Getting on a bike is highly likely to improve your health and vitality and extend the fully active years of your life. Get started now. You never know what will happen in the next year that might interfere with your plans to get on a bike. No time like the present. Don't succumb to analysis paralysis. They will always be making better bikes. Jump in now. The Rohloff has 10% less power loss than the Vario/Enviolo/Nuvinci. If you get a bike with the Intuvia and find you really want a display upgrade, the Nyon can be easily added for under $200 and is really the fullest function, max information Bosch display ever made. Some prefer basic, minimal info. Others can't get enough. Decide which one you are later. Get riding!

Thanks for this thoughtful reply. You caught the vibe exactly right. I am overthinking it. I really want a bike to replace my car for the health, environmental and convenience benefits that come with bipedal locomotion.

 

[steve mercier]

These posts are good. I would add that you should get the bike that will inspire you to ride the most. All these bikes ( Nevo to Delite ) can do the job, but the one that turns your crank most will get more use. And then let me add that you should plan for this success. Imagine now that it is very possible in the future you will want to ride farther and longer than you can foresee. That means planning ahead and ordering dual batteries. Nowadays I never travel with less than 2 batteries ( except to get milk) ,often 3 and on rare occasion 4.

 

[Rick53]

Thanks for this thoughtful reply. You caught the vibe exactly right. I am overthinking it. I really want a bike to replace my car for the health, environmental and convenience benefits that come with bipedal locomotion.

what environmental? You mean more coal to make batteries ?

 

[yyf926]

These posts are good. I would add that you should get the bike that will inspire you to ride the most. All these bikes ( Nevo to Delite ) can do the job, but the one that turns your crank most will get more use. And then let me add that you should plan for this success. Imagine now that it is very possible in the future you will want to ride farther and longer than you can foresee. That means planning ahead and ordering dual batteries. Nowadays I never travel with less than 2 batteries ( except to get milk) ,often 3 and on rare occasion 4.

Great points, Steve. I have considered them. However, I'm going with a single battery for this bike for two reasons.

First, part of the 'security system' for the bike is that it will look like the bikes from the city available for rent at stations throughout town. In other words, the bike looks enough like a bike not worth stealing that I'm hoping a thief will pass by my bike without a second glance. A second battery would stick out and I don't want my bike to do that.

The second reason is that I live in a town with extreme temperature swings. In the winter it can be -10/20 F, in the summer 90 F, and in the sun even hotter. My bike shop recommends I take my battery in during extreme temperatures. There is no indoor storage available. So rather than swapping two batteries twice a day for a third of the year, I'd rather only swap one.

I'm hoping this new ebike will spur me back into the saddle more and I may want to get a regular bike for over the road stuff. My R&M will be my commuter vehicle. As I get more comfortable on the bike, I'll add the gear that lets me ride all seasons.

Best regards.

 

[yyf926]

what environmental? You mean more coal to make batteries ?

There is a carbon footprint to obtain the lithium for batteries and keep them charged. Most devices take at a few years to pay off that carbon debt before they begin to return a smaller footprint from replacing a car.

There is also a carbon footprint for the food eaten to drive a non-electric bike. I don't know what that is (you may and I'm curious to learn so please share if you do.) The farther your food travels to you, the higher the footprint.

Point is, there is no free lunch. Batteries take energy to obtain and the carbon footprint is higher than people realize. Gasoline takes energy to obtain and besides the carbon footprint of making it and transporting these fuels, there is also the footprint of gas stations to sell, roads to reach the gas stations, oils and other chemicals such as antifreeze to keep the car running and then there's the exhaust of the car. Plus the environmental costs of spills as well as the infrastructure that makes reaching oil in remote regions (which fuels destruction of rainforests, etc.)

There are also benefits to the batteries of the bike as by riding one I will likely improve my health (and reduce the social cost of poor health) and keep my car off the road (and save those infrastructure costs.)

 

[steve mercier]

Great points, Steve. I have considered them. However, I'm going with a single battery for this bike for two reasons.

First, part of the 'security system' for the bike is that it will look like the bikes from the city available for rent at stations throughout town. In other words, the bike looks enough like a bike not worth stealing that I'm hoping a thief will pass by my bike without a second glance. A second battery would stick out and I don't want my bike to do that.

The second reason is that I live in a town with extreme temperature swings. In the winter it can be -10/20 F, in the summer 90 F, and in the sun even hotter. My bike shop recommends I take my battery in during extreme temperatures. There is no indoor storage available. So rather than swapping two batteries twice a day for a third of the year, I'd rather only swap one.

I'm hoping this new ebike will spur me back into the saddle more and I may want to get a regular bike for over the road stuff. My R&M will be my commuter vehicle. As I get more comfortable on the bike, I'll add the gear that lets me ride all seasons.

Best regards.

If you have no indoor storage at work and you are going to leave a 6k+ bike unattended, you are going to need the kind of luck that is unimaginable in these parts. Around here thieves will steal anything merely for the scrap metal value .

 

[Rob NJ]

If you have no indoor storage at work and you are going to leave a 6k+ bike unattended, you are going to need the kind of luck that is unimaginable in these parts. Around here thieves will steal anything merely for the scrap metal value .

Agree with Steve, thieves know what they are looking at, and can spot a good bike. Our Trek SuperCommuters were locked on our car rack, in broad daylight, and a thief came along with bolt cutters and clipped the cable. Off went my bike, there must of been one thief, because they did not take my wife’s SuperCommuter. Use a good lock. Even in the lovely town of Madison (my wife graduated from there).

 

[yyf926]

Agree with Steve, thieves know what they are looking at, and can spot a good bike. Our Trek SuperCommuters were locked on our car rack, in broad daylight, and a thief came along with bolt cutters and clipped the cable. Off went my bike, there must of been one thief, because they did not take my wife’s SuperCommuter. Use a good lock. Even in the lovely town of Madison (my wife graduated from there).

I get it. And I have already talked with my insurance company about this. I'll be insured. The bike will be parked in a high traffic area and there are cameras. I hate that it comes to this, though.

 

[Rob NJ]

I get it. And I have already talked with my insurance company about this. I'll be insured. The bike will be parked in a high traffic area and there are cameras. I hate that it comes to this, though.

Yeah, it sucks.

 

[steve mercier]

I get it. And I have already talked with my insurance company about this. I'll be insured. The bike will be parked in a high traffic area and there are cameras. I hate that it comes to this, though.

There are 2 million bike thefts a year in the USA. For what it is worth ,In my area we are having good results recovering bikes that have been registered with PROJECT 529 GARAGE. link = https://project529.com/

 

[Mr. Coffee]

There is a carbon footprint to obtain the lithium for batteries and keep them charged. Most devices take at a few years to pay off that carbon debt before they begin to return a smaller footprint from replacing a car.

There is also a carbon footprint for the food eaten to drive a non-electric bike. I don't know what that is (you may and I'm curious to learn so please share if you do.) The farther your food travels to you, the higher the footprint.

Point is, there is no free lunch. Batteries take energy to obtain and the carbon footprint is higher than people realize. Gasoline takes energy to obtain and besides the carbon footprint of making it and transporting these fuels, there is also the footprint of gas stations to sell, roads to reach the gas stations, oils and other chemicals such as antifreeze to keep the car running and then there's the exhaust of the car. Plus the environmental costs of spills as well as the infrastructure that makes reaching oil in remote regions (which fuels destruction of rainforests, etc.)

There are also benefits to the batteries of the bike as by riding one I will likely improve my health (and reduce the social cost of poor health) and keep my car off the road (and save those infrastructure costs.)

Manufacturing a car also has a non-zero carbon footprint. It is hard to imagine that the carbon footprint for manufacturing any e-bike is even a tiny fraction of that for manufacturing the typical IC car.

You don't even have to take my word for it: Ask the Union of Concerned Scientists:

Cleaner Cars from Cradle to Grave

Over their lifetime, battery electric vehicles produce far less global warming pollution than their gasoline counterparts—and they’re getting cleaner.

www.ucsusa.org

Cleaner Than Ever: Latest Numbers Show Electric Vehicle Advantage Is Growing

New analysis by the Union of Concerned Scientists (UCS) shows that in 70 percent of the country, driving electric produces fewer emissions than driving a traditional gasoline car that gets 50 miles to the gallon.

www.ucsusa.org

I'll leave the argument that manufacturing an e-bike has a smaller carbon footprint than manufacturing an electric car as an exercise for the reader.

You also might want to check out:

Electric bikes get over 1,100 mpg...

Or so says bike engineer Zach Krapl in this TED talk: This astounding figure is reached only if you charge your ebike battery via a solar panel. Otherwise, the equivalent mileage goes down to around 500 mpg. Not shabby! I assume those numbers are reached via a math formula that takes into...

electricbikereview.com

 

[yyf926]

Manufacturing a car also has a non-zero carbon footprint. It is hard to imagine that the carbon footprint for manufacturing any e-bike is even a tiny fraction of that for manufacturing the typical IC car.

You don't even have to take my word for it: Ask the Union of Concerned Scientists:

Cleaner Cars from Cradle to Grave

Over their lifetime, battery electric vehicles produce far less global warming pollution than their gasoline counterparts—and they’re getting cleaner.

www.ucsusa.org

Cleaner Than Ever: Latest Numbers Show Electric Vehicle Advantage Is Growing

New analysis by the Union of Concerned Scientists (UCS) shows that in 70 percent of the country, driving electric produces fewer emissions than driving a traditional gasoline car that gets 50 miles to the gallon.

www.ucsusa.org

I'll leave the argument that manufacturing an e-bike has a smaller carbon footprint than manufacturing an electric car as an exercise for the reader.

You also might want to check out:

Electric bikes get over 1,100 mpg...

Or so says bike engineer Zach Krapl in this TED talk: This astounding figure is reached only if you charge your ebike battery via a solar panel. Otherwise, the equivalent mileage goes down to around 500 mpg. Not shabby! I assume those numbers are reached via a math formula that takes into...

electricbikereview.com

I agree with you. I was responding to a post by Rick53.

 

[yyf926]

Agree with Steve, thieves know what they are looking at, and can spot a good bike. Our Trek SuperCommuters were locked on our car rack, in broad daylight, and a thief came along with bolt cutters and clipped the cable. Off went my bike, there must of been one thief, because they did not take my wife’s SuperCommuter. Use a good lock. Even in the lovely town of Madison (my wife graduated from there).

it’s a risk. But there’s no getting around it. Where I will park is a well-travelled area with roving security and cameras. But you and Steve are correct, I may get ripped off.

thanks For your thoughts.

 

[steve mercier]

Maybe you should buy a cheap bike for commuting and a nicer one for everything else?

 

[yyf926]

Maybe you should buy a cheap bike for commuting and a nicer one for everything else?

Yeah, I could do that. But that lets the punks win. I'm 61. I'm trying to replace my car. I fronted the money to get the bike I want. Time isn't my friend. I'm not physically capable of my ride to work without a shower. And showering isn't an option. So I need an e bike. I want it to be comfortable. And if it gets ripped off, it gets ripped off. I will have done my part to register the bike and I cannot imagine anyone thinking a step through bike has sexy resale value. I am not dismissive of your thoughts, Steve. You raise good points. I am in the window of my life where I can, uh, charge ahead or not. I choose to charge.