The Sondors Bike is Unravelling a Bit

[JRA]

To be truly successful he not only needs to supply all the bikes and batteries but also provide after sale support, continue marketing his brand, and selling in to the open market at a price that is sustainable for good business. The expectations of the funders needs to be realized and Sondors, while providing a low monetary value, has set a pretty high bar as far as what the capabilities of the bike will provide. Somehow I think that a one size fits all, single speed, low wattage and low ah system is not going to meet those expectations. And he needs to pay his bills.

 

[Ann M.]

Well @EULITTLB my personal preference is for an ebike system with both pedal assist and a throttle; that's what comes on the BionX system on the Airnimal bike I converted. Now with that said, some of my customers just don't 'get' how pedal assist works and they feel the need to have total control over the bike. They are primarily pedaling and adding the power with throttle on an as need basis which in their mind is less cheating! Go figure. Its either there's too many buttons to mess with (understandable) or with a single level of pedal assist, it's too rapid in its engage which startles the inexperienced riders. On the other hand...(you knew there was going to be another hand ) some of my riders look at the throttle in total disdain and consider that cheating, thus my conclusion-provide both. Even Prodeco Tech has come around to that perspective with its bolt on pedal assist system as an aftermarket option.

As for Sonders, we've all ground into paste the misleading specs--50 miles on that battery? No it might be that he thought the ebike was just a glorified version of one of the toys he's designed before. I know everyone has observed how the specs on the bike have altered after big blowups on the internet.

 

[EULITTLB]

Morning Ann, I'll go with your perspective. However I tend to agree that a throttle being present pushes a bike to a point where I am personally uncomfortable and it slips out of the bike category. With the BMW Cruise ebike there are 5 levels of pedal assist to choose from, I understand what you are saying though.

There is no indication whatsoever that quantity production has begun. Fortunately for me I am in a position to observe the Ivars ebike campaign rationally, yet others are not. Of course 50 miles range has been altered to read *with pedal assist and I really can't be bothered to go over arguments with @Bruce Choate who claims it is accurate and not misleading in any way because he is such an expert he could get 1000 miles from that battery. Are you familiar with the saying 'fools and their money are easily parted?'

Have a great weekend.

 

[EULITTLB]

So, what if Sonders delivers ... let's say, 1,000 bikes, then declares bankruptcy. And the bikes come with bottom-end components.

Is that success? ...or failure?

Well it is a possibility for sure........ would be a success for those who receive the bikes and a failure for those who don't...... if some of the funders received a pedal they would deem it a success, let's stick to the facts - this Campaign has had more twists and turns than a thing with a lot of twists and turns, there is nothing admirable about it other than an ebike with no warranty or support at a low price.

 

[stevenast]

this Campaign has had more twists and turns than a thing with a lot of twists and turns

Good morning Lord John Marbury! (I hope you've seen the West Wing episodes I'm referring to lol, all in good fun!)

@Ann M. on another thread, I think, paints a bleak, but I am sure, accurate picture of the finances... the very few dollars per unit that are available to manufacture this product and to just break even.

I like the definitions of success given above, producing the bike as claimed, for everyone who donated, and then having an ongoing concern, supporting the product.

The weather report for this project: "High tonight, low tomorrow, precipitation expected."

 

[EULITTLB]

LOL @stevenast I honestly have never even an episode of the West Wing - the genesis of that statement was Rowan Atkinson in my mind anyway!

I'm totally behind new projects, ones that push the boundaries and set new standards - but on the basis of honesty and transparency, which we have little of in this particular Campaign.

I personally doubt whether many ebike aficionados would be seen dead on a Sondors ebike, even if he pulls it off with a modicum of success he will have done well, but this Lawsuit waiting pregnant in the background I believe this is all purposeful and as you conclude, there will likely be another sting in the tail!!

 

[wa5]

Sondors now has two " production" bikes, It appears that he/ they may not have the battery cover made yet and the yellow cover on production bike number one may be the one from the second proto type. if you look at the black bike, it doesn't appear to have a battery cover (or am I imagining that?).

 

[EULITTLB]

Hi Trev, can you find a link to a 30 Day warranty - it certainly isn't offered by Sondors, and let's face it, 30 days warranty is pants - how or where do you claim anyway? What do you make of the Paypal route being inaccessible or do you feel this might be a technical glitch?

 

[wa5]

Could the pay pal thing be in relation to 2.0s court case, could they have put in a complaint, put a lein on his account, so he has chosen to shut it down, or force a situation that made pay pal shut it down, therefore being able to claim some unspecific "trouble" ..

The paypal account is under IGGs control, I think, given their close relationship with 2.0, its possible they could find a way not to release funds to Storm, so that they would be available for 2.0 when they inevitably won in court.

Storm could be chasing that money to "do the right thing" by his funders.. but given his track record, he may have other plans.

Additionally, I believe it might be a little easier to freeze funds from pay pal, than it might be by credit card? (anybody know much about this?)

Paypal is pretty user friendly, but they are greedy greedy bastards, I'm sure they'd love the fees from that 5 plus million dollars, and would be falling all over themselves to have Storms account up and running. it still doesn't look great, does it?

 

[wa5]

So, A2.0 has been working on the Sondors / Storm campaign for around 6 months? with the majority of the work taking place in the last three months?. for their work, they are chasing $444,713 plus almost $80,000 in interest. making a total of $524,000.

Is a 25 percent p/a return achievable in this market?

 

[J.R.]

The way the lawsuit game is played today is ask for the moon and stars and accept one or the other in settlement.

 

[EULITTLB]

@J.R. apparently there is a written contract, in no way was Ivars set up for the response to the misinformation and misleading claims. hats off to Agency 2.0 they did a good job on him, and on others - where matters are written down and agreed in a Contract, they cannot be simply dismissed out of hand, I hope it does go to a hearing personally, so we can learn of the fragile basis on which this Campaign is based. It is ugly, and as I say elsewhere, things will get uglier - as they are on the IGG comments page, relating to my business and historical activity defending an independent website taken over by a competitor and run for their own gain - I have just had the busiest and most successful week in nine years, as one of the two founders in the UK of the B&O pre-owned market!

@Bruce Choate is no doubt a knowledgable guy about ebikes, well things with throttles anyway, yet hides in the IGG comments section and does not come on here to discuss matters, or on Endless Sphere in which active discussion is taking place, instead resorting to personal insults. The claims Sondors makes are ridiculous and at least I have learnt this through reading and posting on forums, why do @Bruce Choate and Philip Hillis not see it this way either?

 

[EULITTLB]

I received this notification from a Funder through my Storm Sondors ebike Campaign page.

"This is bullshit, no communication, no ship date, the email on website is false and does not work. I am filing dispute with my card holder."

Encouraged by another person to do it, this was the Funders experience:

"Oh its done.... and its why I used a specific CC. IndieGG tried to BS me and tell me it would take 90 days to get credit. LOL and stated if I inform my CC Co and tell them I made a mistake. Funny how all my questions got responses after I got my money back."

This is word for word quoted, I have sought clarification from Bill that IGG advised him to contact his Credit Card Company again and tell them he made a mistake about filing a dispute, anyway he got his money back before the 90 days he was initially advised FWIW.

 

[EULITTLB]

Most updates have spelling mistakes, I wonder who the "team" is to whom Ivars refers? Worrying how unprofessional the tone of this is when the Storm clouds are gathering and there is a pending Lawsuit to answer. Glad to see how pronounced Aspergers is in this particular case - low to non-existent.

Here’s an update for you from the ‘Sondors Electric Bike’ team:

1 new Announcement:

Happy Saturday! Just a quick update that we're trucking away on replying to each and every email we received over the past few days. If you haven't received a reply yet, no problem, we're almost to you! And don't worry, you won't loose your place in line.

And thanks again for all the awesome positive notes coming through! Our entire team appreciates it. Ok, back to your day.

But wait, we leave you with this ... what do you think about the Sondors Retro Bike? Just kidding. Carry on.

 

[stevenast]

Storm clouds are gathering

Did you coin this phrase?

 

[EULITTLB]

Admittedly I stole it (he says humbly)

http://www.afr.com/technology/storm-clouds-keep-gathering-above-sondors-ebike-20150422-1mqhep

 

[George S.]

Hi Trev, can you find a link to a 30 Day warranty - it certainly isn't offered by Sondors, and let's face it, 30 days warranty is pants - how or where do you claim anyway? What do you make of the Paypal route being inaccessible or do you feel this might be a technical glitch?

Storm mentions it early in the Court video.

 

[EULITTLB]

Hi @George S. it was also stated that the shipping cost was to be less than $194 - and at another point MUCH LESS (since removed) - and when funders were asked to pay $194 that there would be a refund.........and now the shipping cost is........ $194 it was as low as we could go. So what if Ivars mentions it, what faith can anyone have in what he says or writes? I have asked @Bruce Choate for a link and he will not provide one.

 

[George S.]

It all seemed so simple, back at the start:

The Latvian-born Sondors, a former toy business tycoon, said he hit upon the idea of an electric bicycle while recovering from a sports injury. He saw a friend riding an electric-powered two-wheeler, and was dismayed to learn it cost $4,000. He decided to try to build an affordable e-bike, he said.

http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-sondors-ebike-lawsuit-20150423-story.html

The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

 

[wa5]

I wonder why Storm no longer procures Happy Toys for McDonalds? or is that business still going. would be interesting to get Maccas take on this.