The Sondors Bike is Unravelling a Bit

[Brambor]

a have no respect for people who think pedal assist is a gimmick. Throttle only vehicles cease to be bicycles in my mind. In order to a bicycle to be a bicycle it needs to be pedaled. In summary - nothing wrong with electric mopeds but let's not call those things bicycles.

 

[flymeaway]

a have no respect for people who think pedal assist is a gimmick. Throttle only vehicles cease to be bicycles in my mind.

Hear, Hear......by definition a "bicycle" requires pedals, so you're right on.

 

[EULITTLB]

Am with you guys, all for pedal assist and not so keen on throttle assist personally, but to go on a global comments page and call pedal assist a gimmick....... well @Bruce Choate may claim I am the biggest moron on the Internet and everyone is laughing at me, but I don't claim to be something I am not; he is pretty close behind me and is an bike know-it-all!!

 

[Brambor]

when he was here he rubbed me wrong way with his insistence on throttle and ebikes going over 30mph. Those are fine wishes for some but to take over the forum with too many posts and claim those as absolutes was creating an unhealthy direction. Those are only my personal opinions and are not meant in any way as a thought control on this forum just my opinions, just my opinions.

 

[EULITTLB]

Well I was a motorcyclist and am now a cyclist, both ebikes and conventional. I think we blur the lines when you talk of throttles on bikes - s-pedelecs no problem either, if I want to ride a motorbike I'll buy one thanks

 

[JRA]

General call for more money, and it appears to be working rather well as the $$ is climbing ever higher. Was $5.28 and now $5.45.

"Shipping Fee: If you have NOT paid for shipping yet, you have until this Saturday, April 25, 2015 to pay in order to get your ebike in your selected timing (i.e. begin shipping May for Wave 1 and August for Wave 2). If we do not receive payment by then, you will not get your Sondors eBike."

So pay now or else. Even for August shipping? If you don't pay shipping within the next two days you will not even get a bike? Is that ever or even later?

 

[EULITTLB]

Appears to be not ever.

And shipping guaranteed to be less than $194 - MUCH LESS WAS STATED - is now $194 because it is lowest we can go.

Shameful and disgusting, nothing but extortion.

Of course @Bruce Choate will disagree and justify it as he does everything his fantasy friend Ivars does, so his chum Olenik can screw more commission. Distasteful is an understatement.

The campaign is reliant on people resigned to be ripped off and feeling they can't do anything about it

 

[stevenast]

General call for more money, and it appears to be working rather well as the $$ is climbing ever higher. Was $5.28 and now $5.45.

"Shipping Fee: If you have NOT paid for shipping yet, you have until this Saturday, April 25, 2015 to pay in order to get your ebike in your selected timing (i.e. begin shipping May for Wave 1 and August for Wave 2). If we do not receive payment by then, you will not get your Sondors eBike."

So pay now or else. Even for August shipping? If you don't pay shipping within the next two days you will not even get a bike? Is that ever or even later?

It's called throwing good money after bad.

Nasty place to put you in ...

 

[Brambor]

umm - retraction - apparently I confused Bruce Choate with Bikenut and therefore for the record I want to say what I said about Bruce Choate was meant to be the content posted under the login: @bikenut and for the record I do not even recall exchanging forum posts with @Bruce Choate

 

[EULITTLB]

Let’s watch for
1) 30 days warranty NO MENTION OF IT WHATSOEVER
2) Series of demo days as stated NO MENTION OF IT WHATSOEVER
3) 50 miles range…… er with pedal assist now
4) 90 minutes full charge
5) Shipping refund NOT GOING TO HAPPEN
6) May 2015 delivery for early Pledgers NOW CLAIM IS TO BEGIN SHIPPING IN MAY
7) 90 minutes of riding without pedaling
8) bike retailing at $1299 have all been duped to pay $500-$700 for a bike built to price?*

 

[Ann M.]

Hey @EULITTLB are you going cynical on me now? Its just getting exciting! If the 5 bikes don't arrive, at least you have a business where you could write them off as a loss--think of them as potential 'gifts' to good customers. Others may not be so fortunate, but like it sez on the IGG pages, Caveat emptor, there's no guarantees and that is the crux of this mess.

 

[EULITTLB]

@Ann M. Good Morning Madam, 5 bikes? My 5 Cruise ebikes have arrived as you know, although admittedly I just delivered one to the Head guy at Lotus F1 and there were no pedals or charger in the box - grrrr, now resolved - I didn't order anything after Ivars didn't answer my pre-pledge questions.... I have to apologise though I didn't realise what crowd-funding was all about - I thought it was funding a concept or idea, not retailing products and trying to evade taxes and the expensive certification procedures for products, product liability insurance etc.

In fact when I was discussing with my client from Lotus he spoke of his involvement with the development of the KERS system for Renault F1 and he said when the batteries go, they really let go with shoots of flames so I really hope that due diligence has been performed, but I very much doubt it.

I was encouraged by the latest update -Ivars has upgraded FREE OF CHARGE a battery level LCD screen from one so small that you couldn't see it to one that is big enough to see it...... he is obviously a manufacturing genius.

My fear is that Funders get anything at all at any time having paid $194 for a shipping charge that was guaranteed to be less than $194 -stated as MUCH LESS on the Story page - they will forget all the false claims and deception and if the thing trundles along for 5 miles before needing a 4 hour charge and gives up after a few months, they will excuse it as a version 1 and it only cost $499 or whatever.

But I am learning from @Bruce Choate all the time, this ebike expert and chum of Chris Olenik, the guy suing Ivars for Contractual Fraud, states

1) pedal assist is a gimmick
2) weight and drag have little bearing on range because of CA

I was going to mention this to my Lotus Client and ask him to contact Bruce because he would revolutionise F1 and the world of Physics..... but I had more pressing matters to attend to when BMW had forgotten to put the pedals and charger in with one bike, have had to check all of the others now!

 

[EULITTLB]

And @Ann M. , which side of the fence do you swing on - throttle or pedal assist? To my mind pedalling has to be the inherent part of cycling, once the activity is reduced to pressing a button then your sex life becomes that way too!

Talking of which, and I understand you are a reliable source of wisdom, I did a lot of reading up on the Bosch powerpack that comes with the BMW pedelec, warranty of charge cycles in the first two years, the advanced BMS..... lifespan and replacement cost of $600.

Do you really feel that Ivars is not winging it with the claims regarding his bike is specced with, obviously not guaranteeing or standing by anything with warranty? There is no guarantee of what spec the battery will be or what will or won't turn up - I would have thought the USA authorities would have been hot on battery certification too, especially for a product sold with no insurance liability cover.

There are a lot of hurdles to overcome, even I can look beyond the stated claim of a May 2015 delivery, now changed to "start shipping in May" 5500+ bikes that you begin to ship in May might take months until you get the last one out - Ivars will probably ship 50 or so bikes, have huge logistical and customs/sales tax issues and then come up with something else that he might "guarantee" LIKE THE SHIPPING COST - any claim or statement is worthless from him imo.

 

[Hurley]

"Sorry to me pedal assist is a gimmick if you know how to properly manage your throttle."

This has got to be most ridiculous statement regarding E-Bikes I have read in a long time. I don't even know where to start...

ri·dic·u·lous
rəˈdikyələs/
adjective

1. deserving or inviting derision or mockery; absurd.
   
   synonyms: laughable, absurd, comical, funny, hilarious, risible, droll, amusing,farcical, silly, ludicrous; More

 

[George S.]

The tone of the campaign has changed remarkably since A2 left.

http://gosondors.com

The thing I want to know is, people are handing over several hundred thousand dollars to the IGG site, mostly for shipping. The only name on the IGG Sondo site now is A2.0. To me that means A2.0 is getting the money, a lot of money, and maybe that means they have settled already.

Why would A2.0 be the only name on a campaign where they were stiffed? If you fire an employee, and he sues you, does he come in and do his job for a while?

The Press, such as it is, has never gotten anything right on this campaign. There's this whipsaw thing. Deep down, a lot of people wanted these guys to fail. Last week was like party time if you were short Sondo. And now? So if they don't fail? And the bike is half decent?

What if the Sondo works out? And then the Wave? And then the RadRover? And then the Karmic? They are buying bins of parts, not developing an intergalactic death ray. The bikes would be a lot more interesting with an intergalactic death ray...

PS- I like throttles. You can still pedal, and you get exactly the amount of assist you want. I especially like throttle with a watt meter. Now I know exactly what is going on. I do like the way pedal assist turns some mid-drives into chain saws if you fiddle with the chain and leave the system on.

 

[J.R.]

Not sure George, just took this screen shot on the Sondors/IGG page.

Storm listed on team.

 

[pxpaulx]

What if the RadRover works out? And then the Sondo? And then the Wave? And then the Karmic? They are buying bins of parts, not developing an intergalactic death ray. The bikes would be a lot more interesting with an intergalactic death ray...

Fixed the order there Mike sent the first container of Radrover bikes to production two and a half weeks ago and provided an expected delivery date of June 26th. Given how in depth and up front he has been both in the campaign and with me directly, I expect to receive the bike then - even if the Sondors campaign was first, I have a feeling they won't be first with an actual punch (bike) in public!

 

[George S.]

Not sure George, just took this screen shot on the Sondors/IGG page.
View attachment 2802
Storm listed on team.

That's hard to figure, updated an hour ago. But you'd think they were all best buddies, not engaged in a lawsuit. The fact that A2 is mentioned anywhere, and especially with Sondors? Plus they no longer are pre-selling on gosondors, just referring over here. Too complicated for me.

 

[stevenast]

So if they don't fail? And the bike is half decent?

So, what if Sonders delivers ... let's say, 1,000 bikes, then declares bankruptcy. And the bikes come with bottom-end components.

Is that success? ...or failure?

 

[George S.]

Success is supplying all the bikes. The bike has to be about what Court rode in his video on Demo Day.