The Sondors Bike is Unravelling a Bit

[Chas]

Interesting, I missed that part. That $4,000 two-wheeler sounds like a description of the bike in the original sales video (Jon's bike with the green rims and no pedals). Jon H. stated it was a 3000 watt bike (and I have a video still showing 72 volts on the cycle analyst). That bike had a Crystalyte HS motor, 72v Electric Rider battery, Crystalyte 40A controller. What is odd is that they would use a $4,000, 3,000 watt bike in the sales video to sell a $500, 350 watt bike. That was my first red flag. Just looking at the video, my first thoughts were - no way a 350watt bike is going to go that fast on a city street, or ride that easily in sand (I've built several and they can' t do what Sondors was claiming).

Of course that video has been taken down now that they have the money.

It all seemed so simple, back at the start:

The Latvian-born Sondors, a former toy business tycoon, said he hit upon the idea of an electric bicycle while recovering from a sports injury. He saw a friend riding an electric-powered two-wheeler, and was dismayed to learn it cost $4,000. He decided to try to build an affordable e-bike, he said.

http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-sondors-ebike-lawsuit-20150423-story.html

The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

 

[EULITTLB]

@Chas you mean like the shipping cost guaranteed to be less than $194 - MUCH LESS was stated given the volume of sales........ and would you believe it, $194 was the lowest we could go.

Feel really proud I predicted no shipping refunds, they are playing catch-up lol.

 

[wa5]

But to be fair Ian, they did have the "volume of sales" caveat. maybe they just needed to sell more bikes lol...
What about the shipping discounts for those that referred other customers to the brand?
what about the charitable donations that were touted at the beginning?

Good news, Storms representative on IGG, Bruce Choate (or is he Chris Oleniks man? I get a little confused) has confirmed that the 30 day warranty is a goer, of course he is basing that on the same 5 seconds of Video that we have all seen. His argument appears to be that the video statement would be enough to make any court rule in the customers favour. From that statement, and Storms current activities, I presume that means that anybody who wants to claim on the "very generous" 30 day warranty, will have to pursue Storm in court, so nothing new there then.

 

[PowerMe]

It's kind of hilarious and sad at the same time how these guys who are really just rabid customers and fans of SS try to act like they are on the "team" of his campaign. They control nothing. The bike's success or failure rests completely on the shoulders of the 1 guy whose name is on the bike. I don't care how many Facebook pages they create or what they do on a comments section, unless they have their hands directly in the pot 'o money they are the same as everyone else. I don't know why they even bother arguing with "the trolls." What's it to them? They'll get their bikes and be happy, isn't that the name of the game? And beyond that, who cares what anyone else thinks of the campaign? It's not THEIR campaign, it's just a campaign they have helped fund. As long as they get what they paid for, that's all that should matter.

 

[Credible Hulk]

It's kind of hilarious and sad at the same time how these guys who are really just rabid customers and fans of SS try to act like they are on the "team" of his campaign. They control nothing. The bike's success or failure rests completely on the shoulders of the 1 guy whose name is on the bike. I don't care how many Facebook pages they create or what they do on a comments section, unless they have their hands directly in the pot 'o money they are the same as everyone else. I don't know why they even bother arguing with "the trolls." What's it to them? They'll get their bikes and be happy, isn't that the name of the game? And beyond that, who cares what anyone else thinks of the campaign? It's not THEIR campaign, it's just a campaign they have helped fund. As long as they get what they paid for, that's all that should matter.

You've summed up what I've wondered all along. What do these people have to gain by rabidly and blindly promoting this crappy little startup ebike? One would think they'd have more important things to worry about in their lives. Why are they so heavily invested (not just financially) in this thing? Reminds me of Stockholm syndrome in a way, people who become enthralled by their abusers or kidnappers.

 

[wa5]

I believe that even if Storm / Ivars does manage to ship all bikes to all customers (Doubtful IMHO) and they are of a quality and specification that matches the claims (again, Doubtful), Creditors, such as Agency 2.0 wont get the money Storm owes them.

Should customers care what suppliers do, as long as they get their product? I guess that some large companies have been doing similar things for years, Sweat shops in third world countries spring to mind when I think of things that I find unpalatable. I'm not quite sure where I stand on not paying 2.0, I don't think they were angels, but they did provide a service, a contract was agreed to and the money hasn't been paid...

 

[George S.]

If Storm wants to sell the bike on an ongoing basis he could offer Chris some payments, or a piece of the company. Doubt they would make great partners. Chris can tie up the company and any assets. And who knows what IGG has, now. The bike might sell. Pick a price. The last PR piece was pretty solid.

Curious Chris has gone dark, mute. Storm claims complete credit for the design in a recent release. Ah, partners.

 

[wa5]

15 bikes have been claimed for the third run (October delivery), still at $649. not too sure shares in Stormco would be worth much

 

[George S.]

If you get 6,000 bikes out there, mostly in places like California, it might create something. The CF is dead. They should end it.

I'd try to cross-brand. Put the Home Depot name on it, Ridgid or whatever it is. Put one in every store. Demo it on Saturday for a month or two.

I'm still going on the assumption this is a decent bike, and it's very eye-catching. If they are well south of $1,000, this could be the breakthrough bike. So far, I'm impressed that Storm put in a massive effort, on the ground, in China. It is his bike in that sense, though I'd like proof he 'designed' it. If the China stuff means it is a good bike, maybe state of the art at the price point, it's kind of explosive, actually. The potential.

They need to leave the CF behind. There were massive problems with this bike. Storm is a rather complicated man. But he did prove incredibly focused, once he got to China.

I'd really like to see this bike.

 

[Brambor]

George, what criteria do you employ to consider it to be a decent bike (besides the looks)?

 

[PowerMe]

There's an assumption that Storm wants to continue with this ebike after this campaign and deliveries are completed. That may not be an accurate assumption. Or maybe he'll be on to something else after this, like some other ebike or some other product entirely. Or maybe he'll just be done and go hang out on a beach.

 

[J.R.]

I'm glad to see other real discussion on this bike. I'm a little surprised people find this bike design so appealing as I'm not a fan of the battery box.

George, you are on to something with licensing this bike. "Sam's" would be a good fit and with licensing you could make a lot of money from a laptop at home. No need to be involved with manufacturing or an organization, just administration of the license.

 

[PowerMe]

Is it the design that's so appealing or the fact that it's a fat tire ebike for cheap?

 

[Brambor]

funny but the ONLY thing I consider appealing about this bike is the battery box. lol

 

[PowerMe]

Awww Brambor. You can get a plastic lunch box at Walmart!

 

[George S.]

George, what criteria do you employ to consider it to be a decent bike (besides the looks)?

If it's a geared Bafang motor and if the Samsung cells are assembled in a way that won't create problems, you are pretty much left with the bike that they sell in big box stores. It's a very simple bike. There are good procedures to build a battery pack, but they aren't necessarily going to kill the pricing. They are 'all' using these cheap cases now. The charger is probably not very expensive, and they should use some kind of BMS. I can point to 'name' brands (reviewed here) that use cheaper cells, probably basic BMS and charger.

In other words, it might be an $80 motor, with volume, and the cells for the battery might be $2 apiece. The controller has to be cheap. He's skating (dangerously) around some regulations. But to be fair, I bought a bike kit from Hong Kong. About what the Sondo costs. I didn't want anyone to look at it, see if it matched the regs. I just went and picked it up at the PO. You know, no questions asked. I know how batteries are being sold.

They hit the timing in one sense. A year ago the cells were not cheap but now they seem to be cheap. I assume these are old assembly lines making cells Tesla won't touch because of the capacity. Supposedly Tesla will buy all the production for the newest cells.

If you look at the other sub-$1k ebikes that have been around, this one could appeal to someone who had no idea what an ebike is, or what it is supposed to do. They were getting young people at the one Demo ride. That says a lot.

 

[George S.]

There's an assumption that Storm wants to continue with this ebike after this campaign and deliveries are completed. That may not be an accurate assumption. Or maybe he'll be on to something else after this, like some other ebike or some other product entirely. Or maybe he'll just be done and go hang out on a beach.

That theory is supported if the split with Chris can't be fixed. Storm took all the money (he sort of admits this) but if he tries to form a company, Chris can sue him very easily and tie up the assets of the company. So Storm heroically builds the bikes, gets them delivered, and walks away. Chris gets nothing, and Storm just eludes the lawyers and court decrees as in the past.

It's tough to actually make something, the process of making things, manufacturing. Which ending is better? I screwed Chris, even though that was the end of the bike. Or I did what I had to do to build the bike, and then Chis and I worked stuff out?

Look at the way he poses with these bikes. This is his baby. No one does things the way Storm does things. So I hope he built a bike people will be happy to own.

What a long strange trip it's been...

 

[Brambor]

The $$ still doesn't add up. I sort of thought as best case scenario that he will build and deliver some of the bikes while promoting the brand for investment. When the investors buy pieces of the brand then newly found money would be used to build the rest of the bikes while a new bike gets developed, this time with higher price. A recognized brand can afford to sell at this higher price and slowly recoup the money initially spent.

 

[George S.]

The $$ still doesn't add up. I sort of thought as best case scenario that he will build and deliver some of the bikes while promoting the brand for investment. When the investors buy pieces of the brand then newly found money would be used to build the rest of the bikes while a new bike gets developed, this time with higher price. A recognized brand can afford to sell at this higher price and slowly recoup the money initially spent.

It would be nice to know how many bikes are in this first run. Everyone who is not in this first run would be at something of a disadvantage. The Agency claim is huge. If most of the bikes are paid for and in the process of being delivered, that's one thing. Most people were at that first price point, and scheduled for "May". If those people actually have bikes coming, it's fairly clean. But the actual production has not been made known, that I have seen.

So, how many bikes are on the way?

 

[PowerMe]

I still go with the primary point: customers or "funders" of this campaign aren't concerned with and don't need to be concerned with the machinations that go on behind the scenes. They plunked down their $$$ and what they care about is getting the item they expect. That's it.

All the debate about how Storm is handling business, partner issues, who owes who what at what % of gross or net, agency 2.0 issues, IGG issues, is not the business or concern of the contributors. Their focus remains on the thing they are funding. If they get that thing (in this case an ebike that works) then that's all that's required.