The Green Room

[BarryS]

At least one UN scientific climate scare supporter has sacrificed taking showers and goes stinky as he flies and limo rides to hobnob at the expensive upper-class events.

If people would just think If the most dangerous thing to the planet is C02 . That means in reality when all this massive waste of tax money is gone and there's still C02 Issues according to Lefty . They'll have to start eliminating the largest cause of C02 . Ahh lets see what could that be ??? Oooh yeah the Population and Cow Farts Duhhhhh!!!!! That;s Science for yah After all isn't that the end game anyway ? lest I be a conspiracy nut This is what you get when people deny The Big Guy isn't Biden it's YHWH . What's most said is all this effort if we are even being told the truth there. Would change the Temps less then 1 degrees in 100 years .

 

[Art Deco]

Speaking of storage challenge (though not specifically green storage in this case) this announcement from my little corner of the world made some headlines this week:

Quoting from this news article:

An energy provider's plan to build Australia's largest battery is the latest development in a quickly transitioning energy market.

Origin Energy has unveiled plans to build a giant 700-megawatt capacity battery at its coal-fired power plant in Eraring, south of Newcastle, in the New South Wales Hunter region.

Origin's proposed 700MW battery, and Neoen's 500MW battery in western NSW, will be the two largest storage devices in the world, and will be worth a combined $1 billion.

The plan is to feed the battery with the existing coal power plant, transitioning to storage and load distribution once the power plant reaches end of life in a decade.

It's a fast changing space here in Australia. Investment in green energy is charging ahead, despite mixed messages and a lack of incentives at the Federal level. The rationale I read is a reduced appetite for money lenders to invest in new fossil fuel projects, the cost effectiveness of new renewable versus fossil fuel projects, and plummeting confidence in existing fossil fuel investments.

The proto-battery facility in South Australia, the largest in the world at the time of completion, has proven its worth in the three years since. It has more than paid for itself in energy savings to consumers, and absorbed fluctuations in the grid avoiding regular summertime brown- and blackouts.

Wow. A billion dollar battery. That's worse than Specialized,

 

[pmcdonald]

For the interested, this article took a dive into the research on full lifecycle emissions of utility battery storage:

Estimating The Carbon Footprint Of Utility-Scale Battery Storage

As utilities combine renewable energy with large battery storage systems, there has been increasing interest in the carbon footprint of such systems. In this article, I attempt to make that calculation.

www.forbes.com

It found batteries in tandem with renewables generated about a third the emissions versus coal, per kWh.

That's based on a battery life of 400 full cycles. It doesn't take into account battery recycling at the end of life, an emerging industry here in Australia.

 

[Art Deco]

For the interested, this article took a dive into the research on full lifecycle emissions of utility battery storage:

Estimating The Carbon Footprint Of Utility-Scale Battery Storage

As utilities combine renewable energy with large battery storage systems, there has been increasing interest in the carbon footprint of such systems. In this article, I attempt to make that calculation.

www.forbes.com

It found batteries in tandem with renewables generated about a third the emissions versus coal, per kWh.

That's based on a battery life of 400 full cycles. It doesn't take into account battery recycling at the end of life, an emerging industry here in Australia.

I wonder what's involved in battery recycling anyway. 400 cycles doesn't sound like much before a Recycle or Rebuild.

 

[pmcdonald]

I wonder what's involved in battery recycling anyway. 400 cycles doesn't sound like much before a Recycle or Rebuild.

400 is on the low side. A Powerwall is good for about 1000 - 1500 at least, the million mile battery about 4000. These emerging batteries dramatically bring the CO2/kWh equation down.

From my exceptionally limited understanding of battery recycling, they first discharge and disassemble the battery, then granulate it. Domestically we have the facilities to extract and recycle the aluminium, copper and steel. Lithium, cobalt, manganese and nickel is sent to facilities in South Korea for hydrometallurgical processing and recovery. Using this method about 95% of the battery is recovered.

With the huge untick in battery use I think we'll see more legislative push and more of a private business case for recycling. Toyota in Europe, for example, recycle 91% of their car batteries. They aim to reach 100%.

 

[Art Deco]

400 is on the low side. A Powerwall is good for about 1000 - 1500 at least, the million mile battery about 4000. These emerging batteries dramatically bring the CO2/kWh equation down.

From my exceptionally limited understanding of battery recycling, they first discharge and disassemble the battery, then granulate it. Domestically we have the facilities to extract and recycle the aluminium, copper and steel. Lithium, cobalt, manganese and nickel is sent to facilities in South Korea for hydrometallurgical processing and recovery. Using this method about 95% of the battery is recovered.

With the huge untick in battery use I think we'll see more legislative push and more of a private business case for recycling. Toyota in Europe, for example, recycle 91% of their car batteries. They aim to reach 100%.

From Australia to Korea and back seems like a long, expensive, and polluting boat ride just to get raw materials back. IDK how the process works with lead acid car batteries either, and I really should. The biggest battery factory in the states is here in Pennsylvania.

 

[Art Deco]

And about those fuel cells ... about as likely as "clean coal" for economic reasons alone. From a blog I follow by a professor I believe knows what he's talking about.

Cassandra's Legacy

A blog about collapse as caused by depletion of mineral resources and climate change

cassandralegacy.blogspot.com

 

[pmcdonald]

And about those fuel cells ... about as likely as "clean coal" for economic reasons alone. From a blog I follow by a professor I believe knows what he's talking about.

Cassandra's Legacy

A blog about collapse as caused by depletion of mineral resources and climate change

cassandralegacy.blogspot.com

Thanks for posting. I read through a number of articles - he's a very thoughtful writer.

 

[Handlebars]

Climate is what the experts expect. Weather is what people get. And this weather sucks.

That's nonsense. What the experts expect, is called a prediction - and a prediction is simply the most likely of their projections. Otherwise, it's known as a forecast. For weather we have forecasts. For climate we have predictions or forecasts also.
Something more important than making up, just blabbering out some nonsensical definitions, is to pay attention. So pay attention, please.

Isn't it funny to you, in a very stinky way, that what the experts you trust say, is never about how long a period of weather events it takes in order to make climate data. They say things like : "Weather is what you dress for before going out today. Climate is what clothes you bring with you for a vacation somewhere"
That isn't science. That is treating you like a moron. Now you can't answer a simple question because you accepted being treated like a moron.

The climate clowns always berate people about "weather is not climate", weather is short term, climate is longer term.
but after what amount of collection of days or data do the weather events or data become climate? Did they ever tell you? can you find out ? Nope.

You do realize by now, don't you, that you're not dealing with a science?
All the decades of putting people down over the difference and not one of you can even attempt to answer the question of what amount of weather record makes climate data.
And you won't question why you don't know the answer, after you've performed the numbskullery of the "no definitions for us!" routine for decades.

 

[Handlebars]

Hey Consider the same people pushing climate and attacking you . Are the same one's calling us raciest and Bigots at School board meetings . Where it's been exposed they are teaching our 2nd Graders about anal Sex...

Hey!Teacher! Leave them kids alone.

 

[Art Deco]

I didn't notice how but this but this thread' s down a rabbit hole again. This is about climate and preparing for extreme weather, and what we do when we can't just burn coal and oil anymore. Not what your school board or Sunday school said. Stay on topic.

 

[BarryS]

WOW, you really believe this crap? NUTS!!! Hopefully, someday the "religulous" crap will be shut down.

Where on earth do you get your moral compass from ?
Do I believe they are teaching it in School ?? Yeah : The School Board admits it with Zealous Joy . What on earth is religious about being against Death . That's why it's wrong . It bring premature death . Not only to the individuals involved but to the future of the Family Unit . Do you actually know any gay people ? Have you ever been approached ? Do you know that 1 out of 8 is walking around with HIV and doesn't know it because they are embarrassed to go get tested . I mean 1 out of 8 who is sick . That is tremendous .
So do you know Gay people ? I do : Lots of them. Probably close to 100 over the last 30 years . So Go away You're lost . The Carp is people like you who tell these people they are normal because you believe the agenda to normalize it . Make friends with someone gay and you'll see . Not one is well adjusted . They are depressed and lonely. It's not the glanderous life you see promoted on TV and in Almost every commercial . I'm talking about someone who has been gay for 10 years or more. Not a Pedophile Pervert who goes home to his wife and kids after he scores . That's a whole other problem.
Do you know how rampant AIDS still is . The death rate is down or I should say slowed down due to drugs . That they are sick all the time from.
We are promoting a life style to Children that will kill them.
That's not religion : That's Biology
So please don't assume from a comment you even understand.
As for religious : I don't think you know what the difference of religion vs religious even is . Majority don't . They just believe what they hear . Just like they do with the gay lifestyle.

 

[Handlebars]

This is about climate and preparing for extreme weather

It isn't, if you cannot define what you're yapping about. Your religion vs ... that is all it is, since you refuse to define the subject. A dubious and dangerous religious mania.
Go to your priests and ask for the defining line between weather and climate and then come back and tell us.
If you have nothing, it's religious mania.
You mock those who you believe mistake one for the other, so give the guidelines. Or not... if it's only another dangerous cult.
Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
By your works you will be known. So show your work. Thank you!

 

[Handlebars]

NASA hits it out of the universe.
"Climate, however, is the average of weather over time and space."
Oh my, they're getting spooky on ya.

 

[Art Deco]

Statistics indicate I’m in my last decade. With any luck I’ll miss the pain millions will endure.

Statistics lie a lot. Medical science is in a exponential growth stage. And curmudgeons are notoriously hard to kill. So you may well be riding a lot longer than you think, and perhaps helping others adapt to a changing world...

 

[BarryS]

Thanks for the confirmation

 

[BarryS]

Statistics lie a lot. Medical science is in a exponential growth stage. And curmudgeons are notoriously hard to kill. So you may well be riding a lot longer than you think, and perhaps helping others adapt to a changing world...

Man's knowledge has increased more in the last 10 years vs all of history. It however seems to have made him foolish , selfish, and self righteous to a point what they tell us is Good is bad and what is Bad is Good . And those who still see the Truth are called deniers, Bigots , Haters and a long list of other names . Attempting to silence the fact the people running the World's affairs are mostly stupid . Most are to self involved to see that or want to admit it .
The Earth isn't burning up > Not yet anyway . And when it does it won't be due to lack of Green Energy . Rather because it's written it will . As quickly as it came to be in the first place .

 

[pmcdonald]

Heatwaves may render parts of Sydney unliveable in decades

With Australia's largest city facing 50-degree-plus summers, experts say its suburbs must be radically redesigned and rebuilt in order to remain liveable.

www.abc.net.au

An interesting article discussing challenges relating to urban design and housing construction here in Australia. The challenge we face is a heating climate and a built environment in large part designed at odds with that.

We've adopted some, IMO, terrible urban design practices over the decades that are totally unsuitable for our hot climate down here: acres of uncovered car parks and dark bitumen roads that act as heat amplifiers, a proliferation of native trees in cities that, while water efficient, aren't good sources of shade or cooling, housing design that is only starting to get properly energy efficient.

Like frogs in a pot we only seem to change our behaviour when the status quo becomes unbearable. Heaven forbid we enact some proactive urban planning!

As I type we're just starting a week long heat wave (yay ). Temps are in C.

 

[Sierratim]

Another energy storage idea that doesn't need hugely expensive batteries;

Augwind To Build 120 MWh Of Compressed Air Energy Storage For Solar In Israel - CleanTechnica

In Israel's recent solar-plus-storage tender, at least 120 MWh of storage will be from CAES systems built by Augwind.

cleantechnica.com

 

[Sierratim]

Statistics lie a lot. Medical science is in a exponential growth stage. And curmudgeons are notoriously hard to kill. So you may well be riding a lot longer than you think, and perhaps helping others adapt to a changing world...

What's the quote; "Lies, D#*n Lies, and Statistics"?