The Green Room

[Art Deco]

MA so far ahead due to population demographics?

What is MA ?

 

[Taylor57]

What is MA ?

Massachusetts

 

[Art Deco]

Massachusetts

Massachusetts has a population? I guess I learned something new on EBR today. Grin.

 

[Taylor57]

Massachusetts has a population? I guess I learned something new on EBR today. Grin.

It seems a rather progressive green group as well!

 

[J.R.]

I hadn't heard much about the problems with green energy during winter until this year. Maybe I'm not paying close enough attention, and most of you are up on all this. Texas is in the midst of an artic blast and a state known for energy is suffering major blackouts and rolling blackouts when the power is needed most. Texas is near 25% green energy production now and frozen wind turbines are inoperable and solar farms are also having problems.

Texas Outages Put Reliability Of Renewable Energy In The Spotlight

Everyone wants clean energy, but reliability is what really counts in a crisis.

www.forbes.com

Texas doesn't suffer these winter conditions often or for long periods of time. The news prompted me to read about the issues in western PA where turbines are installed on mountain peaks. They often stop the turbines in winter because the blades throw ice and it's often too dangerous. In addition the added ice weight can burn out the generators. One option is to spray the turbines from helicopters with deicing made from petrochemicals. Switzerland has been studying the problem for some time.

I never put much thought into the weather challenges of this energy sector. I've read about the challenges of capacity and storage, not much about winter production. I haven't come to an opinion yet, I just thought it was an interesting story.

 

[Art Deco]

Reliable green energy still has a long way to go, especially when the weather is so variable. While the rest of the USA is getting buried in snow, it's finally melting here. This morning I got (tiny) power production from my solar panels for the first time in about weeks. Never been blocked by snow for more than three days before since I installed them six years ago.

Since the grid stayed up, I had no issues but I'm thinking about adding battery backup. Wonder how long a pair of Como batteries would run my lights and kitchen ...

 

[reed scott]

We are all heavily addicted to electrical and fossil fuel power. If fusion never becomes reality the ONLY possible way to maintain some semblance of what we think of as ‘modern life’ is conventional nuclear. We may not like it but this is just the way it is.

 

[Art Deco]

Not going to happen. Not now, nor in a century. Bringing back oil lamps, coal, and zeppelins is more likely.

 

[J.R.]

Reliable green energy still has a long way to go, especially when the weather is so variable. While the rest of the USA is getting buried in snow, it's finally melting here. This morning I got (tiny) power production from my solar panels for the first time in about weeks. Never been blocked by snow for more than three days before since I installed them six years ago.

Since the grid stayed up, I had no issues but I'm thinking about adding battery backup. Wonder how long a pair of Como batteries would run my lights and kitchen ...

We had some record setting winters in 2015 and 16 here in south central. 2015 it snowed on Thanksgiving and kept snowing until spring. It was memorable to me because I was commuting by ebike. The rail trail remained covered for about 2-1/2 months or more. In 2016 we also had a lot of snow, we had a one day snowstorm that dropped 38 inches. By far the worst winter snow and ice storm was February 2014, we had a couple snowstorms in a 2 day period that ended on the third day with freezing rain and sleet. The farm directly behind my back field had a large barn collapse. Telephone poles were down everywhere blocking the roads. Even with a 4x4 you couldn't go anywhere due to the poles and trees blocking the roads. Stuck at the house for 6 days without power. Central PA had 400,000 customers without power at one time.

Many states have it much worse in winter. The issues for green energy seem almost insurmountable. Tech, cost, infrastructure, terrain, weather. I wish the pop-media would offer people more rational reporting on the challenges we face. We can't flip a switch. There has to be support for innovation and time for gradual change.

 

[6zfshdb]

We were out of power for 8 days as a result of Hurricane Sandy in October of 2012. My neighbor had just installed a solar system which was connected to the power grid. That way, he could sell the unused power he generated to the power company. As a safety measure, the system is designed to shut down during a power outage. That way, electricity back fed into the grid won't harm power company employees working on downed lines. Ironically, after spending all that money on solar, he was out of power just like the rest of the neighborhood.

One by one, all my other neighbors ran out of gasoline for their portable generators since no gas stations in the area were pumping due to the outage. We invited the neighbors to shower and fill their water jugs at our place since we have a large generator powered by a diesel tractor. To fuel it, I siphoned home heating oil from my 1000 gallon in ground tank. It provides enough stored fuel for over a month if necessary. Not very "green" I'm afraid but it came in handy when even the solar power failed.

 

[Art Deco]

Indeed @J.R. Time is of the essence, as the lawyers say. And powerful lobbies have put this transition off for half a century and counting.
@6zfshdb I set it up so my solar system is switchable, using inverters designed for that, but I only get about half of maximum power when off grid mode. And when we had our only 3 day outage here, it took me two days just to figure out how to switch it to run my freezer and a few lights and gadgets. Not ready to sell that to the public yet.

 

[reed scott]

Indeed @J.R. Time is of the essence, as the lawyers say. And powerful lobbies have put this transition off for half a century and counting.
@6zfshdb I set it up so my solar system is switchable, using inverters designed for that, but I only get about half of maximum power when off grid mode. And when we had our only 3 day outage here, it took me two days just to figure out how to switch it to run my freezer and a few lights and gadgets. Not ready to sell that to the public yet.

I'm sure you are correct that powerful interests have "put off this transition" for half a century but just WHAT are we transitioning to? Texas just proved wind and solar are a recipe for freezing to death as people are literally doing daily here. Yes we need alternative energy. But we can never give up reliable backup power. Please change my mind.

 

[Art Deco]

I'm sure you are correct that powerful interests have "put off this transition" for half a century but just WHAT are we transitioning to? Texas just proved wind and solar are a recipe for freezing to death as people are literally doing daily here. Yes we need alternative energy. But we can never give up reliable backup power. Please change my mind.

If I knew that I'd be as rich as Bill Gates. But I do know that Exon, BP, and any remaing non bankrupt fracking and coal companies will fight like hell for whatever is left of BAU.

 

[J.R.]

I'm sure you are correct that powerful interests have "put off this transition" for half a century but just WHAT are we transitioning to? Texas just proved wind and solar are a recipe for freezing to death as people are literally doing daily here. Yes we need alternative energy. But we can never give up reliable backup power. Please change my mind.

I don't know where we are going. Some if the biggest voices in the green movement are hypocrites. Bill Gates, was a great businessman, now retired and in his travels on his private jet put 16,000 tons of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. That's just plane travel for a year to his many houses, awards shows, climate seminars and interviews. The average person is responsible for 5 tons of greenhouse gases for everything they do in a year.

I don't think 'big oil' is the demon some think they are with regard to renewables. Big oil are some of the biggest investors in green energy. It's not out of the goodness of their heart, it's a pure capitalist move. They want a slice of the pie. They want a manageable transition. I can see plenty to criticize them for, but they are energy companies and they would want to make green money too

How Renewable Energy Can Pay Off for Big Oil

Oil-and-gas companies with large renewables portfolios, like Equinor and Total, could use spinoffs to realize the value of those businesses, says RBC Capital Markets analyst Biraj Borkhataria.

www.barrons.com

3 Oil Companies That Are Becoming Renewable Energy Stocks | The Motley Fool

Renewable energy is the future of energy, and these oil companies know it.

www.fool.com

How the six major oil companies have invested in renewable energy projects

Oil and gas is often painted as the dirtiest sector within the energy industry, but major companies have been investing heavily in renewable technologies

www.nsenergybusiness.com

The renewable energy strategies of oil majors – From oil to energy?

Renewables, especially wind and solar, are taking a role of increasing importance in the energy industry. Therefore, oil majors are progressively posi…

www.sciencedirect.com

 

[Art Deco]

I respectfully disagree. Legally they must protect shareholder value as long as they can. BP made some green noise in their annual report and immediately got sued by shareholders, and Chesapeake was fighting for pipelines when they went into bankruptcy.

 

[J.R.]

I respectfully disagree. Legally they must protect shareholder value as long as they can. BP made some green noise in their annual report and immediately got sued by shareholders, and Chesapeake was fighting for pipelines when they went into bankruptcy.

Unlike the strange world we find ourselves in, friends can disagree and remain friends. Hopefully we won't get canceled No one person knows everything. I'm sure I haven't read everything you have on the issue.

 

[Art Deco]

Bill Gates claims his private jets are green b/c they are powered by biofuels. John Kerry claimed his 50 plus room mansion was greener than his neighbors ( probably bigger ) mansions, and Leonardo Dicaprio owns either the fourth or fifth largest yacht in the world. Greenwash much ?

 

[Sierratim]

Some of Bill's thoughts on the future of nuclear;

TerraPower: why Bill Gates thinks nuclear energy is the future

TerraPower has never built a nuclear plant. But it's got radically different plans for them.

www.inverse.com

IBM Predicts Technology in Five Years

Every year, IBM predicts the top five changes in technology that will significantly impact the world in the next five years. This year, the list inclu...

www.energydigital.com

 

[Art Deco]

I don't know where we are going. Some if the biggest voices in the green movement are hypocrites. Bill Gates, was a great businessman, now retired and in his travels on his private jet put 16,000 tons of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. That's just plane travel for a year to his many houses, awards shows, climate seminars and interviews. The average person is responsible for 5 tons of greenhouse gases for everything they do in a year.

I don't think 'big oil' is the demon some think they are with regard to renewables. Big oil are some of the biggest investors in green energy. It's not out of the goodness of their heart, it's a pure capitalist move. They want a slice of the pie. They want a manageable transition. I can see plenty to criticize them for, but they are energy companies and they would want to make green money too

How Renewable Energy Can Pay Off for Big Oil

Oil-and-gas companies with large renewables portfolios, like Equinor and Total, could use spinoffs to realize the value of those businesses, says RBC Capital Markets analyst Biraj Borkhataria.

www.barrons.com

3 Oil Companies That Are Becoming Renewable Energy Stocks | The Motley Fool

Renewable energy is the future of energy, and these oil companies know it.

www.fool.com

How the six major oil companies have invested in renewable energy projects

Oil and gas is often painted as the dirtiest sector within the energy industry, but major companies have been investing heavily in renewable technologies

www.nsenergybusiness.com

The renewable energy strategies of oil majors – From oil to energy?

Renewables, especially wind and solar, are taking a role of increasing importance in the energy industry. Therefore, oil majors are progressively posi…

www.sciencedirect.com

The Barron's article is certainly worth reading. If big oil can in fact spin off renewable energy companies that would bring investors the kind of returns based on hopes rather than profits that Tesla does, that would be huge. I doubt they can when their stock prices are still falling, but it's possible.

But it still seems likely that it will take a disrupter like Elon Musk to change them. GM and Ford would still claim that electric cars are 50 years away if it wasn't for him.

 

[Art Deco]

Some of Bill's thoughts on the future of nuclear;

TerraPower: why Bill Gates thinks nuclear energy is the future

TerraPower has never built a nuclear plant. But it's got radically different plans for them.

www.inverse.com

IBM Predicts Technology in Five Years

Every year, IBM predicts the top five changes in technology that will significantly impact the world in the next five years. This year, the list inclu...

www.energydigital.com

I have heard of Tetrapower before, but not "traveling wave reactors". They sound like fission reactor meets Star Trek teleportation, so I'll quote the doctor (Bones?) From tnat show... "I'll wait to see what it does to your molecules first".