The Green Room

[Art Deco]

Emissions from China plus N. America (USA and Canada) equals the rest of the world, IIRC. Remember also that much of the pollution in China is produced by factories making goods for the N. American markets. We offshored our pollution along with our jobs.
But it's much too late to point fingers now. This is the kind of weather we oldsters will see for the rest of our lives. And we will have to deal with it.

 

[john peck]

And China's pollution probably equals the rest of the world combined.

Thatś a very convenient cop-out. Sure, China & India have a bit less than on third of world population,
but here´s some disturbing stats for you: The U.S. has 5% of the the world´s population, but...we
consume 1/3 of itś paper, more than 1/4 of the aluminum, 1/5 of the copper. We are responsible for
50% of the world´s solid waste, without even mentioning our use of fossil fuel. Of the 17 leading
countries, we are dead last in sustainability!

 

[john peck]

And China's pollution probably equals the rest of the world combined.

Here´s more, the U.S, consumes 66,525 kilowatt hours of fossil fuel annually; that´s more
that twice as much a China, (23,337 kwh) & the UK,(25,528 kwh) put together! Only
12% of our energy use is renewable! The U.S. military is the single greatest user of fossil fuels
in the world!

 

[J.R.]

The US has brought more people out of poverty and saved more lives than any other country in the history of mankind. Russia after the revolution, China pre and post WWII, many countries in Africa and South America. Yes, some took advantage and got wealthy too. What are the amount of US resources spent to actually better peoples lives. Compare that number to any other country. What is the percentage of our resources that were spent to help save the world from the Nazi's? Keeping Stalin in line after he killed more than 40 million of his own citizens? China? Yes some of those things were long ago, and some got wealthy along the way. Do you just turn that sort of ambition and industrialization off like a water spigot? How is it turned on when needed? How do you keep the knowledge base and workforce while its turned off? How do we help the new and still poverty stricken?

Blame is easy. Making a U-turn in a subcompact car is very different than a double or triple tractor trailer. Mabe we should've started the turn a quarter mile back, but that has passed.

 

[john peck]

The US has brought more people out of poverty and saved more lives than any other country in the history of mankind. Russia after the revolution, China pre and post WWII, many countries in Africa and South America. Yes, some took advantage and got wealthy too. What are the amount of US resources spent to actually better peoples lives. Compare that number to any other country. What is the percentage of our resources that were spent to help save the world from the Nazi's? Keeping Stalin in line after he killed more than 40 million of his own citizens? China? Yes some of those things were long ago, and some got wealthy along the way. Do you just turn that sort of ambition and industrialization off like a water spigot? How is it turned on when needed? How do you keep the knowledge base and workforce while its turned off? How do we help the new and still poverty stricken?

Blame is easy. Making a U-turn in a subcompact car is very different than a double or triple tractor trailer. Mabe we should've started the turn a quarter mile back, but that has passed.

Being an apologist does not refute the facts, nor does it address the problem.

 

[J.R.]

Being an apologist does not refute the facts.

It's not being an apologist, it looking at the issue from all sides and not just a myopic viewpoint. I gave no one a free pass. The issues and solutions aren't simple. Many countries in history have made changes at any human cost. The people killed building the pyramids, the great wall of China, the third reich.

 

[Art Deco]

Here´s more, the U.S, consumes 66,525 kilowatt hours of fossil fuel annually; that´s more
that twice as much a China, (23,337 kwh) & the UK,(25,528 kwh) put together! Only
12% of our energy use is renewable! The U.S. military is the single greatest user of fossil fuels
in the world!

On the military fossil fuel use ...
We just abandoned our Afghanistan bases from our longest running war ever, and troop pull backs from other areas are being scheduled.

It is possible that the US military has past it's peak spending now. The companies that historically profited from our war efforts are often showing declining stock values today.

The cynic in me says that TPTB (the powers that be) just aren't interested in military power anymore, and will put their money and effort into building a global medical industrial complex instead.

 

[J.R.]

Being an apologist does not refute the facts, nor does it address the problem.

Replying to the edit, 'address the problem'. That was the entire substance of my post. Help the future, without killing people.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

And China's pollution probably equals the rest of the world combined.

My house will be just as burnt from American pollution as Chinese pollution.

Does this view look "Chinese?":

 

[john peck]

Replying to the edit, 'address the problem'. That was the entire substance of my post. Help the future, without killing people.

The planet can no longer afford the U.S. as it´s policeman. I have nothing but sympathy for the
women in Afghanistan., Sudan, & elsewhere. Either way people are going to die! At this rate your
grandchildren are going to be cannibals. It not just people at stake! We must take a responsible
stewardship of the planet! Something goes extinct every day; if we don´t fix it, we will eventually
join that list.

 

[Art Deco]

My house will be just as burnt from American pollution as Chinese pollution.

Does this view look "Chinese?":

View attachment 96076

I'm sorry, @Mr. Coffee , but that picture looks like the future. Maybe it's time to move? You know the area and the fires..

 

[PedalUma]

The planet can no longer afford the U.S. as it´s policeman. I have nothing but sympathy for the
women in Afghanistan., Sudan, & elsewhere. Either way people are going to die! At this rate your
grandchildren are going to be cannibals. It not just people at stake! We must take a responsible
stewardship of the planet! Something goes extinct every day; if we don´t fix it, we will eventually
join that list.

A friend in N.J. sent an email this morning with the UN Report, asking if it is too late. This is what I told her.

"Yes. It is too late to go backwards. There will be a crash of the current situation and some sort of emergence of something very different, hopefully sustainable. When the very first European explorers set foot on Tasmania the population was 20,000. The people had a material culture that included 15 basic, biodegradable and stone tools. The smallest tool kit ever recorded. The Tasmanians were naked and spent All day Every day singing! There was no treasure, there were no monuments, nor ruins, or dumps, or mines, or farms, or leaders. Just naked people singing all day."

It was the oldest continuous culture on earth.

 

[Art Deco]

To all involved in this thead ... what the lastest IPCC report said was "It's too late to raise an alarm, it's time for "mitigation". Oversimplified to say "harm reduction" as the younger people say.
And that's the purpose of this thread, especially for ebikers who know how little energy it takes to get around and actually live. /end rant

 

[Mr. Coffee]

I'm sorry, @Mr. Coffee , but that picture looks like the future. Maybe it's time to move? You know the area and the fires..

Move to where, exactly? What with sea level rise, desertification, and catastrophic wildfire where will be left to live? I hear Greenland might be pleasant in the future and the skiing will likely be great there.

 

[Art Deco]

Move to where, exactly? What with sea level rise, desertification, and catastrophic wildfire where will be left to live? I hear Greenland might be pleasant in the future and the skiing will likely be great there.

Yes, safe havens are hard to find today, and I don't know your circumstances. But I'd be looking if I wasn't planted here in Pennsylvania. Not news, but I'll see this out from where I am, but that's a huge decision for you and yours .

 

[john peck]

Move to where, exactly? What with sea level rise, desertification, and catastrophic wildfire where will be left to live? I hear Greenland might be pleasant in the future and the skiing will likely be great there.

Some folk seem to think a joy ride into outer space is cool. I´d love to discuss that with ´em one on one.

 

[Art Deco]

Some folk seem to think a joy ride into outer space is cool. I´d love to discuss that with ´em one on one.

If I had to have that discussion with them I would want to know why their employees should pay for such adventures. Now Branson is apparently selling tickets for about a half million a seat for about 10 minutes of space ride time.

 

[PedalUma]

Here is a brief article about running oil production in reverse by using kelp that holds promise. I think the problem with mitigation is that it creates an offsets mentality of I can ride my rocket because I planted some trees. We need both stopping the destructive actions And employing constructive actions. I do not know if people are capable of doing things like giving up gross polluting cars and private trips to the edge of space.

'Run The Oil Industry In Reverse': Fighting Climate Change By Farming Kelp

A Maine startup is drawing high-profile support for its low-tech plan to soak up carbon emissions. It says its kelp farms will sink to the ocean floor and lock the carbon away for millennia.

www.npr.org

 

[Art Deco]

The great thing about biological solutions is that they can scale like crazy, because they reproduce. The bad thing is that they can can scale like crazy when we don't want them to anymore.
Probably the most powerful arrow in the quiver of Science with a capital S that we have today.
Edit after reading this, 1600 buoys (?) Is not trivial as a start up project, even if it is a drop in the ocean.
It reminds me that when the St. Lawrence seaway to the Great lakes was so polluted, and zebra mussels started reproducing like crazy. Turns out the was an element in the pollution they needed, and could filter out of the muck.
They grew untill they plugged up turbines and crashed some ecosystems, but cleaned up the sulpher or whatever element they were after.

 

[john peck]

Here is a brief article about running oil production in reverse by using kelp that holds promise. I think the problem with mitigation is that it creates an offsets mentality of I can ride my rocket because I planted some trees. We need both stopping the destructive actions And employing constructive actions. I do not know if people are capable of doing things like giving up gross polluting cars and private trips to the edge of space.

'Run The Oil Industry In Reverse': Fighting Climate Change By Farming Kelp

A Maine startup is drawing high-profile support for its low-tech plan to soak up carbon emissions. It says its kelp farms will sink to the ocean floor and lock the carbon away for millennia.

www.npr.org

View attachment 96108View attachment 96109View attachment 96110

Those pics are something; how can people live like that? Saw an item the other day where commuters
in our largest cities are paying as much as or more than $10k a year to commute.Thatś just an insane
exercise in masochism. Gotta be a better way to make a living. I´d rather eat dirt.