Supercharger Rohloff HS vs Delite Nuvinci HS

[CharlieMK]

Hi,

I’m looking for a HS bike which I will mainly use for my commute (50km one way). I’m living in a flat area with almost no slopes. The roads I’ll be biking on are asphalt/pavement with a not so occasional pothole. I have test-driven the Delite Nuvinci. I liked it, but the highest gear is not high enough. It is fine until 35 km/h, but when I was going faster the cadence was too high. My assumption is that the Rohloff’s highest gear is comfortable enough for doing at least 40 km/h, although I have not (yet?) been able to test drive a Rohloff.

My main requirement is a maintenance-free bike, so I certainly want a belt. I guess there are two options:
- take the Delite with Nuvinci and customise the sprocket so I can go faster with it
- take the supercharger with Rohloff (+ belt) and swap the tires for Moto-X Schwalbes

If the Delite’s Rohloff would also be equipped with a belt it would be a no-brainer, but it has a chain instead. So I guess it comes down to the question if I need a rear suspension (Delite) in my situation.

Opinions?

 

[tompat]

For comparing gear ratios, use the german Ritzelrechner ("gear counter") website. Here I've done a comparison of the Rohloff Speedhub with the Nuvinci N380 with the correct chain ring and pinion gears. As it seems the Nuvinci has a higher top-end gearing and Rohloff excels in ultra low gearing. Use the cadence slider to your preference!

Ritzelrechner comparison Rohloff and Nuvinci

I have the Supercharger GX Rohloff HS, I can maintain a comfortable cadence up to full assist (45 kmph). So far the gearing is not the speed limiter but air resistance is. Above 35-38 something it really begins to take a toll on your muscles and the engine (battery). These bikes has a fairly upright seating position and you are catching a lot of wind. If you are not a highly fit cyclist (which I am not) I'd not count on more than 30-35 kmph average speed over your 50 km commute. This is important to know if you want to get an appreciation on how long the commute takes. My commute is 33 km one way and I make it in an hour. Guess I can cut a few minutes over time when getting in better condition.

I chose the Supercharger for:
+ The frame integrated batteries
+ Rohloff, it is supposed to be bulletproof
+ Gates belt drive, as you mention it gives many maintenance free kms.

If you ride mostly on paved roads you don't have any benefit from the full suspension. I've got a few km of gravel road with a lot of potholes and even I don't feel the need to have full suspension. The Thudbuster seatpost works to some degree but I am looking at swapping to the the Bodyfloat, it seems softer and more suspension-like.

As for the tires I'm also looking to convert to Super Moto-X. The Rock Razors are nice and not too noisy on flat surface. But having 99 pct flat surfaces to ride on I'm not feeling the need for the knobs.

About changing the sprockets to get higher gearing, I don't think you can. The Bosch system is calibrated to a certain gear ratio and there are threads (on this forum and on the German pedelec forum) with conversions that went bad. Main problems seems to be the assistance gets confused since cadence and speed does not match, so it cuts off and on, and displays wrong speed sometimes.

 

[CharlieMK]

For comparing gear ratios, use the german Ritzelrechner ("gear counter") website. Here I've done a comparison of the Rohloff Speedhub with the Nuvinci N380 with the correct chain ring and pinion gears. As it seems the Nuvinci has a higher top-end gearing and Rohloff excels in ultra low gearing. Use the cadence slider to your preference!

Ritzelrechner comparison Rohloff and Nuvinci

I have the Supercharger GX Rohloff HS, I can maintain a comfortable cadence up to full assist (45 kmph). So far the gearing is not the speed limiter but air resistance is. Above 35-38 something it really begins to take a toll on your muscles and the engine (battery). These bikes has a fairly upright seating position and you are catching a lot of wind. If you are not a highly fit cyclist (which I am not) I'd not count on more than 30-35 kmph average speed over your 50 km commute. This is important to know if you want to get an appreciation on how long the commute takes. My commute is 33 km one way and I make it in an hour. Guess I can cut a few minutes over time when getting in better condition.

Wow, good to know. Guess that’s what R&M means with their gear range expressed in metres in their brochure. The Nuvinci indeed has a higher highest gear according to that information as well.

I took the bike for a 50 km test drive (actually for the exact commute i’d need to do), and finished in 1h31m. The average speed was therefore around 33, but I felt I could have gone slightly faster on long flat roads, if the gears would allow me to.

About changing the sprockets to get higher gearing, I don't think you can. The Bosch system is calibrated to a certain gear ratio and there are threads (on this forum and on the German pedelec forum) with conversions that went bad. Main problems seems to be the assistance gets confused since cadence and speed does not match, so it cuts off and on, and displays wrong speed sometimes.

My bicycle maker said it’s a common thing to do. Do you have a reference where it is mentioned that this may cause issues?

I chose the Supercharger for:
+ The frame integrated batteries
+ Rohloff, it is supposed to be bulletproof
+ Gates belt drive, as you mention it gives many maintenance free kms.

If you ride mostly on paved roads you don't have any benefit from the full suspension. I've got a few km of gravel road with a lot of potholes and even I don't feel the need to have full suspension. The Thudbuster seatpost works to some degree but I am looking at swapping to the the Bodyfloat, it seems softer and more suspension-like.

May I know why you didn’t go for the Supercharger Nuvinci? Do you think the Rohloff is (much) better?

 

[tompat]

Wow, good to know. Guess that’s what R&M means with their gear range expressed in metres in their brochure. The Nuvinci indeed has a higher highest gear according to that information as well.
I took the bike for a 50 km test drive (actually for the exact commute i’d need to do), and finished in 1h31m. The average speed was therefore around 33, but I felt I could have gone slightly faster on long flat roads, if the gears would allow me to.

At the Ritzelrechner, choose "Speed" in the "%display"-box and you can see the speeds for each gear. It helps to visualize the gears.

My bicycle maker said it’s a common thing to do. Do you have a reference where it is mentioned that this may cause issues?

Maybe he/she meant it is common to do on other bikes, such as non-electric or with simpler (dumber) electric assist systems?
Here's a thread on this very forum but I know I've seen others on the german pedelec forum.
https://electricbikereview.com/foru...ce-cx-power-cutting-speedo-up-and-down.16164/

May I know why you didn’t go for the Supercharger Nuvinci? Do you think the Rohloff is (much) better?

I have no past long term experience of either Rohloff or Nuvinci, I just spent months researching all that I could find and the conclusion was that the Rohloff hub appears virtually bulletproof. Users report cycling over 100.000 km with the hub and I like that, I'd rather spend my money on quality products than maintenance. Some say they are on their third bike with the same Rohloff hub.
My commute, although far less than yours, still appears to be quite a bit longer than most riders that seem to commute up to 20-25 km one way.

That said I don't know much about the Nuvinci longevity. I did test ride a few Nuvinci equipped R&M's and found them very nice. Many users don't like the continuous variable transmission but I found it very modern and pleasing. It is said to be considerably less efficient than other systems, but that doesn't matter so much with the electric electric assisted bikes.

 

[CharlieMK]

Maybe he/she meant it is common to do on other bikes, such as non-electric or with simpler (dumber) electric assist systems?
Here's a thread on this very forum but I know I've seen others on the german pedelec forum.
(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

He mentioned it in the context of the Nuvinci Delite after I came back from my test drive. Anyway I don’t blame him, these things are very new and we’re all learning.

However, I’ll challenge him on this topic to see what he says.

I have no past long term experience of either Rohloff or Nuvinci, I just spent months researching all that I could find and the conclusion was that the Rohloff hub appears virtually bulletproof. Users report cycling over 100.000 km with the hub and I like that, I'd rather spend my money on quality products than maintenance.

Amen. But still, I don’t expect to do my commute more than two times a week. That’s 200km * 52 weeks max, so let’s say I’ll be doing 10000 km a year. A Rohloff would last for 10 years then, possibly 30. By then I won’t be using this bike anymore, and moving the Rohloff from bike to bike seems silly to me.

If i can drive 50000 km maintenance free with the Nuvinci (5 years), I’ll be more than happy.

That, combined with the (new) knowledge that the Nuvinci has a higher highest gear, makes me lean towards the Delite Nuvinci again.

 

[tompat]

the Nuvinci has a higher highest gear, makes me lean towards the Delite Nuvinci again.

If you were going on average 33 kmph in highest gear withthe Delite Nuvinci, it would translate to 57 in cadence. In comparison, the Rohloff on a Supercharger GX in highest gear needs a cadence of 61 for the same average speed. IMHO this is not large enough difference to be a major decision point. I'd consider other factors such as full suspension or not, frame integrated batteries or not, which aesthetics is most pleasing to you (both frame design and colours available).

You haven't mentioned your choice of batteries. Dual or single?
The Supercharger is ready for dual batteries even if you buy the bike with only a single battery, whereas the Delite can not be retrofitted with a second battery if you don't order the bike with dual battery.

They seem to be about equally priced. Whatever choice you make I think you will be pleased with the quality of R&M and the technical refinement of the Bosch system. And if you care, do update us with how your 50 km commute is going when you get your bike. It is quite a long way and not many does that distance.

If you don't need the full suspension and you decide to go with the Nuvinci, there is also the option of a Supercharger GT Nuvinci HS. It has the N380 and Gates belt drive and is considerably cheaper than the two options above. And it has Super Moto-X tires.

By the way, where are you located, guess not in the US since you use metric units?

 

[CharlieMK]

If you were going on average 33 kmph in highest gear withthe Delite Nuvinci, it would translate to 57 in cadence. In comparison, the Rohloff on a Supercharger GX in highest gear needs a cadence of 61 for the same average speed. IMHO this is not large enough difference to be a major decision point. I'd consider other factors such as full suspension or not, frame integrated batteries or not, which aesthetics is most pleasing to you (both frame design and colours available).

Going 33 with the Nuvinci was very comfortable. However this was the average speed (including stops). To actually reach that average, I had to go a lot faster most of the time. I started to have problems with the cadence as soon as I was going 35-38km/h or more and the cadence really was becoming too high for me. Looking at the calculator, that means that I 'max out' on 65 rotations per minute, which translates to 35km/h on the Rohloff.

Perhaps not a large enough difference indeed.. I should get my hands on a Rohloff to do the test.

By the way, I do not care very much about aesthetics (if I would, I'd like the Supercharger more). I do like the fact that the Supercharger is the 'newest model', with the Delite I might get the feeling that I'm buying older technology (although this may also prove to be advantageous).

You haven't mentioned your choice of batteries. Dual or single?
The Supercharger is ready for dual batteries even if you buy the bike with only a single battery, whereas the Delite can not be retrofitted with a second battery if you don't order the bike with dual battery.

Definitely dual battery right from the start.

If you don't need the full suspension and you decide to go with the Nuvinci, there is also the option of a Supercharger GT Nuvinci HS. It has the N380 and Gates belt drive and is considerably cheaper than the two options above. And it has Super Moto-X tires.

I'm not sure if I need the full suspension. It seemed nice, but I didn't compare with a non-full suspension bike.

By the way, where are you located, guess not in the US since you use metric units?

Indeed, I'm located in Belgium! Our highest 'mountain' is something around 650 metres I think, so mostly I'll be riding on flat roads. However our road infrastructure can be quite bad in some places (potholes etc.).

 

[Alaskan]

I have the Nevo Nuvinci GH with Bosch CX and find that I can comfortably maintain an average cadence of 70 which gives me an average speed of 16mph. I fitted my bike with the Nyon display which helps capture lots of ride data. Here is a printout of my Bosch ebike connect data from a 24 mile ride showing speed and cadence during the ride, which was mostly flat with a few long hills. I am 67 years old and a relative newbee to ebikes, starting riding in February. I have been knocking off over 300 miles a month (305 in March and 351 in April) and have worked on getting my cadence up. A cadence of 75 to 80 helps get the best assist out of the CX, especially when going up hills. Take note of the circle graph in the bottom section that shows that I contributed 38% of the power while Mr. Bosch accounted for 62%. You can also see what assist levels I used during this ride. I only put the bike in Turbo assist when climbing hills and predominantly try to keep it in tour mode.

The Nevo has a front suspension and I have a body float with a Selle Anatomica seat (second photo down). Not quite the cushy comfort of full suspension on roads but still quite comfortable. I have a simpler dual battery set-up, carrying a second battery in my trunk bag when needed.

 

[CharlieMK]

Thanks for the input.
I'm starting to wonder if perhaps something was wrong with the Nuvinci that I tested.

I've found this thread, where 'over50' seems to have the exact same complaint as I have. BurbManDan replied that it is highly unlikely that the highest gear would be too low.

Moreover, the gear calculator (posted by tompat) shows that i should have been doing 43 km/h with a cadence of 76. I often use the gym's hometrainer and I usually set it at a cadence of 80, which is quite comfortable. I'm pretty sure that I maxed out at 38km/h. I'm not sure what my cadence was at that point, but I assume it must have been around 80. So either the calculator is wrong, or the testbike was not tuned to perfection.

Seems like I'll have to find another Nuvinci test-bike.

 

[Alaskan]

Thanks for the input.
I'm starting to wonder if perhaps something was wrong with the Nuvinci that I tested.

I've found this thread, where 'over50' seems to have the exact same complaint as I have. BurbManDan replied that it is highly unlikely that the highest gear would be too low.

Moreover, the gear calculator (posted by tompat) shows that i should have been doing 43 km/h with a cadence of 76. I often use the gym's hometrainer and I usually set it at a cadence of 80, which is quite comfortable. I'm pretty sure that I maxed out at 38km/h. I'm not sure what my cadence was at that point, but I assume it must have been around 80. So either the calculator is wrong, or the testbike was not tuned to perfection.

Seems like I'll have to find another Nuvinci test-bike.

I hear folks talk about a 25km assist level in some places. In the US the CX has a maximum assist level of 20mph = 32kmph. When I hit 19.5 and the assist fades out gaining a faster cadence in the same gear becomes quite difficult unless I am going down hill. Do you know what the maximum electrically assisted speed is on the bike you tested?

 

[CharlieMK]

I hear folks talk about a 25km assist level in some places. In the US the CX has a maximum assist level of 20mph = 32kmph. When I hit 19.5 and the assist fades out gaining a faster cadence in the same gear becomes quite difficult unless I am going down hill. Do you know what the maximum electrically assisted speed is on the bike you tested?

I tested a 45km/h assisted bike, which in practice should keep on assisting until let's say 42-43km/h. Therefore it is quite easy to reach a high cadence. The high gear range then becomes the bottleneck.

 

[Alaskan]

My bike has the CX so the only way I can get up to 28 mph is going down hill. I think my cadence going down hill at 28 mph is around 90. I will be heading out in an hour or so and live near the top of a good hill. I will get the bike up to 28 and take note of the exact cadence with the Nuvinci set at maximum overdrive ratio. I will let you know later just what the results were.

 

[Alaskan]

Going down hill just now in full overdrive on the Nuvinci, at 28mph I had a cadence of 75...at 30mph the cadence was 82

 

[CharlieMK]

Going down hill just now in full overdrive on the Nuvinci, at 28mph I had a cadence of 75...at 30mph the cadence was 82

75 seems like a good cadence, and is consistent with the information provided by the calculator. I think I'll go with the Delite Nuvinci.

 

[Alaskan]

A caution: the speed result at that cadence will only be the same if the delight and supercharger have the same front and rear belt or chain sprocket and the same tire circumference. I is my understanding that the particular model of bike has the Bosch firmware fine tuned for the bike and the sprocket used and that the warranty is voided if you change out a sprocket (front or rear).

The Nevo Nuvinci GH comes equipped with the Super Moto X tires and they are fantastic, whisper quiet, very grippy and give a soft, smooth ride.

 

[CharlieMK]

Still in doubt, but I'm going to make my decision end of this week.

The Ritzelrechner confuses me, since the Delite has 62-584 tires. The ritzelrechner only goes up to 60-584, meaning the Nuvinci is yet a notch faster than I thought. This contradicts with the test drive I did and where I felt that my cadence was very high to get to 43 km/h.

I'm going to try to testdrive a Supercharger Rohloff HS and at the same time a Delite Nuvinci HS for a very short distance, and my decision will be based on how easy it feels to get to 43 km/h.

Keep you posted.

 

[Hompie]

I test drove and bought a Supercharger HS Nuvinci Touring 3 weeks ago. Delivery in August. I had no problem reaching 42-43 but it is true that unless you are on a cycling highway average speed will be less.

I stumbled upon R&M accidently while searching for a full suspension 45km/h with baggage carrier and fenders. Went to look at the Delite but bought a SuperCharger.

My wife has an other brand Automatic Nuvinci and it’s really problematic, so I was hesitant on the Nuvinci but it’s a manual and ok. Did notice you need to learn to put it perfectly in high gear, doesn’t take long.

Rohloff should also work but I wanted the belt, it’s a daily commuter but did not need the extra cost for the extra reliability. And I did not need it to last 10 years, I’m sure in 4 years there will be much improved bikes on the market and I will switch.

If you need sustained High speed get a Stromer (carefull, little to no suspension) as for Delite, did not check the details but have 2 regular mountain bikes with suspension, the forks and dampers need annual maintenance also, and tweaking and tuning, couldn’t be bothered for my daily commuter there. I weigh 110 kg (125 when I started cycling) and the mechanical seat suspension works for me, I want low maintenance everywhere (hence the belt) and daily driver.

I also suspect the Delite will get integrated batteries, I don’t like to drive old models,

Either way, it’s like debating between a bmw 5 series, E class or Audi A6. It’s a luxury problem, all will be great.

I’m eagerly waiting for mine and annoyed it takes so long, was hoping to use it all summer daily.

 

[Alaskan]

"Either way, it’s like debating between a bmw 5 series, E class or Audi A6. It’s a luxury problem, all will be great."

Well said Hompie, that is a perfect analogy.

 

[LVSW]

I also have a Supercharger nuvinci HS ordered for delivery in late August. I like the ease of use of the nuvinci. It will be perfect for my commute and planned weekend usage. I still find the whole hub and belt setup to be amazing.

 

[Hompie]

Search on YouTube for citruscycles Canada, the guy just did a great 1h review of the Rohloff version.
Btw, I would switch tires based upon your commute description if going with the Rohloff. More cost