Super Commuter Version 1.1
- Thread starter Ravi Kempaiah
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Ravi Kempaiah
Well-Known Member
- Region
- Canada
- City
- Halifax
Actually, we had to request Bafang to tweak the firmware and set to 750W without lowering the low-end torque.
They sell these units rated at 1000W but we wanted to comply with the legal laws and keep it at 750W.
It still has all the oomph needed to get upto 28mph speed and maintain it and because it is hardly stressed at 750W, it would last a very long time. You wouldn't notice much difference in torque at 750W or 1000W and we care more about reliability and keeping it safe/legal.
I am curious to understand why you think we should offer 1000W?
The Juggernaut is limited to a top speed of 50 km/h (which can be reprogrammed from the display), which is the residential speed limit in Edmonton, Alberta.
I actually can only easily reach this speed limit with the throttle (Pedaling at level 5 assist gets me to about 32 km/h); the bike maintains 50 km/h at 500W, which extends battery life.
I like the 1500W peak to get the full 160Nm of torque for steep hill climbing, and good acceleration.
The motor handles this power from any gear, even if I forget to downshift, and go full throttle in high gear from a standstill.
I keep hearing that the Rohloff hub is best for handling increased power, so it is a bit of a shame not to use it to its full potential.
It's not crucial, but I like that Biktrix offers 500W (You might also consider a 500W option to be street legal in Canada.), 750W, and 1000W (peak 1500W) options; I would trade the power for less weight and better design (such as mounts for multiple spare batteries) however.
I actually can only easily reach this speed limit with the throttle (Pedaling at level 5 assist gets me to about 32 km/h); the bike maintains 50 km/h at 500W, which extends battery life.
I like the 1500W peak to get the full 160Nm of torque for steep hill climbing, and good acceleration.
The motor handles this power from any gear, even if I forget to downshift, and go full throttle in high gear from a standstill.
I keep hearing that the Rohloff hub is best for handling increased power, so it is a bit of a shame not to use it to its full potential.
It's not crucial, but I like that Biktrix offers 500W (You might also consider a 500W option to be street legal in Canada.), 750W, and 1000W (peak 1500W) options; I would trade the power for less weight and better design (such as mounts for multiple spare batteries) however.
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Feliz
Well-Known Member
Hey dmark, I have a Juggernaut as well and having 1500 Watts at your disposal is awesome isn't it? I also find my 3" tires a good compromise between skinny and fat (4") tires. I'm considering putting a Rohloffon on my Biktrix, have you thought about that? I'm in Vernon BC and a former Edmonton resident.
Hi Feliz, I am a new Edmontonian (5 years) from Ontario. I haven't had a problem with gears and chain on the Juggernaut to consider a switch to Rohloff. The Juggernaut runs so well that I am reluctant to make these kinds of changes.
I use the Juggernaut for winter commuting with the stock 26 x 4 tires, but I also own a 27.5 x 3 set that I may buy studded tires for. I find I am riding more on ice than on deep snow, and Internet postings have me thinking that a narrower, fully inflated, studded tire is better than a fat tire for ice. I've had a few slips on with 26 x 4 knobbies without studs.
The next use I may make of an ebike is summer touring. The Super Commuter interests me for this function, as it appears that Ravi is attempting to set distance records. I assume he is accompanied on his trips by people who will supply him with fresh batteries, but I would like to see a setup for making these kinds of trips alone, with extra batteries mounted on the bike. I think a bike could potentially be designed to hold up to five batteries on the main triangle (Btw, I dislike the sloped top tube on the Juggernaut because it reduces the real estate in the main triangle and makes it impossible to carry the bike on my shoulder).
I use the Juggernaut for winter commuting with the stock 26 x 4 tires, but I also own a 27.5 x 3 set that I may buy studded tires for. I find I am riding more on ice than on deep snow, and Internet postings have me thinking that a narrower, fully inflated, studded tire is better than a fat tire for ice. I've had a few slips on with 26 x 4 knobbies without studs.
The next use I may make of an ebike is summer touring. The Super Commuter interests me for this function, as it appears that Ravi is attempting to set distance records. I assume he is accompanied on his trips by people who will supply him with fresh batteries, but I would like to see a setup for making these kinds of trips alone, with extra batteries mounted on the bike. I think a bike could potentially be designed to hold up to five batteries on the main triangle (Btw, I dislike the sloped top tube on the Juggernaut because it reduces the real estate in the main triangle and makes it impossible to carry the bike on my shoulder).
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Ravi Kempaiah
Well-Known Member
- Region
- Canada
- City
- Halifax
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Mark!
I get where you are coming from. The watt ratings on motors are tricky.
What really matters are:
- range/kwhr,
- max speed
- how quickly it gets upto speed
and in the current setup, it will haul a 135Kg human + luggage without much problem. It has the Boost hub that is found on high-end eMTB and the Titanium frame is stiff yet very light. Motor + Rohloff combo has no problem maintaining 45kmph top speed all day long.
This is precisely the reason why we have 880whr battery + Grin satiator charger. It charges the battery at 7A current. So, 0 to 80% in 2 hours.
I have done LOTs of long distance trips and what you need is a charger like that and it eliminates the need for spare batteries. Let's say you do 80kms in the morning and stop for lunch/rest (you don't want to pedal soon after a meal), that will give you another 80kms of range in about 2 hours.
There will be an upgraded battery of 1250 whrs in about 2 months and with that you absolutely don't need spare batteries. You could do 100kms in the morning + break for lunch/charging + 100kms in the afternoon. 200kms a day is a decent trip that can sustained for a week or two. And eliminating the need for spare batteries makes room for real luggage that you do want to carry.
The record I am attempting in August it to highlight the efficiency. 750+kms in a day at a cost of less than $1 proves how far the ebike tech has come. I plan to have just 1 spare battery. While I am riding on one, the other will be charging at 7A on the satiator and when it is time switch, you just swap. The whole ride is video recorded, so we know how many batteries are exchanged.
Someone recently set a record on Tesla Model 3: https://cleantechnica.com/2019/07/0...ord-2781-km-1728-miles-travelled-in-24-hours/
They used an ultra fast charger that pumps in 190+ KW of power. It is really amazing how far the tech has come in the last 5 years.
I like almost all of the design choices you made here. Titanium frame ,rohloff, large capacity battery, racks, nice front fork(I like that you went for Auron), very good charger. Imo 750w is a very good power output(especially if it can supply most of that power at lower cadences). If the motor is reliable and long lasting at these levels that's great.
A minor issue is that for this price point the battery may have better frame integration. I believe because of titanium frame manufacturing process you have to use tubes(ruled surfaces in general) so how about a rectangular front tube which will give you a nice platform to mount whichever battery you like and probably will be more stable and pleasant to the eye.
I hope this bike will get the attention it deserves. Good luck.
A minor issue is that for this price point the battery may have better frame integration. I believe because of titanium frame manufacturing process you have to use tubes(ruled surfaces in general) so how about a rectangular front tube which will give you a nice platform to mount whichever battery you like and probably will be more stable and pleasant to the eye.
I hope this bike will get the attention it deserves. Good luck.
The Juggernaut has a 1008Whr battery that weighs 11 lbs with estimated 70-100 km per charge (estimated recharging of 80% in 2 hours). I would like to travel Edmonton to Calgary (about 300 km). With the Juggernaut, this trip could potentially be done with 2 batteries and 2 chargers with one stop halfway.
What is the weight of your 880Whr battery and what is the weight of your 1260Whr battery?
Thanks for the information.
Ravi Kempaiah
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- Region
- Canada
- City
- Halifax
9lbs
11lbs
Your bike comes with 3A charger. I am curious to know how can it charge in 2 hours?
3A charger puts out 3Ah every hour, so if your battery is 21Ah, it would take more than 5 hours. Please educate me here....!
It would take 2 days to do it comfortably. If you want to do it in a day, you def need 2 batteries and two 5A chargers, not 3A.
Feliz
Well-Known Member
With all the BBS motors ( at least the ones I have ) they are programable using the appropriate cable so no matter how the bike is delivered with tinkering 1500+ Watts should be achievable. I don't care how fast my bikes go I care more about hill climbing ability. I set all my bikes at 20 mph tops but I don't commute or at least I haven't for 20 years.
Ravi Kempaiah
Well-Known Member
- Region
- Canada
- City
- Halifax
Thank you, Johnny!
Yes, it is a $600 fork and rides pretty well.
Re: integration.....I think one day, we will get there but until then we have proceed slowly and very carefully.
Shaping Titanium is challenging compared to forging or forming Al tubes. Also, welding Ti is not like welding Al tubes.
I am reading from the website, "Our batteries charge up to 80% in just 2 hours. This means less time charging and more time riding!" This must be referring to the 11.6Ah battery. Sorry for the confusion I have created.9lbs
11lbs
Your bike comes with 3A charger. I am curious to know how can it charge in 2 hours?
3A charger puts out 3Ah every hour, so if your battery is 21Ah, it would take more than 5 hours. Please educate me here....!
View attachment 35166
It would take 2 days to do it comfortably. If you want to do it in a day, you def need 2 batteries and two 5A chargers, not 3A.
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You are right welding also seems to be harder with titanium frames.
I still prefer a well made titanium frame like yours to a fancier looking alu frame. After all frame geometry is what contributes to ride quality not how fancy it looks.
Feliz
Well-Known Member
I've just sorted out the purchase and delivery of a bike to me in Canada with Pushkar the principal of the company. It was a pleasure doing business with him. I even considered having a friend of mine, an electrical engineer, ebike store owner, and former MB racer build me an identical or near identical ( I prefer Shimano brakes ) bike but I couldn't come near the price Pushkar is selling them for. Review to follow.
Deafcat
Active Member
Great to hear Feliz! It will be a fantastic extended range tour bike. I hope to be able to ride one to the farm eventually (250km distance, mostly completely flat in Saskatchewan). It's appealing to think that in just a few years, there should be an electric gravel bike that could do this on a single charge...
Feliz
Well-Known Member
Hey, I was born in Rabbit Lake Sask......a long time ago. Im looking for great things from ebike technology in the coming years, mostly from batteries.
I guess it's the engineer in me but I get as much of a kick out of the technology in a bike as I do from riding it. I believe we both own Biktrix Juggernauts, I love mine.
I'm really looking forward to riding the Wattwagon Commuter, it should be an awesome bike, it's priced several thousand less than any comparable bike I could find in Canada plus it comes with the awesome Bafang Ultra which has to be one of the best ebike motors made, it's certainly the best of the ones I've used but it's hard to keep up with them all with companies like Grin etc putting out motors now.
Regards
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Feliz
Well-Known Member
Riding an ebike to milk the cows is cool but how would you get the milk back? Trailer I guess!
Deafcat
Active Member
Haha yea, no cows at the farm, only chickens and organic vegetables. I do run Juggernaut as well yep! Amusingly enough, also an engineer.
I definitely agree on the Bafang Ultra... It's pretty much the new standard by which to compare all other mid-drives. Future improvements at Bafang should follow a similar formula, aiming primarily to simply shrink the packaging and weight of the motor, without sacrificing great riding and performance characteristics or reliability (their newish G521 motor is a good attempt at this).
I definitely agree on the Bafang Ultra... It's pretty much the new standard by which to compare all other mid-drives. Future improvements at Bafang should follow a similar formula, aiming primarily to simply shrink the packaging and weight of the motor, without sacrificing great riding and performance characteristics or reliability (their newish G521 motor is a good attempt at this).
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