Specialized Vado 5.0 IGH Cadence Survey

[jessed]

@rarobo that’s frustrating to hear. Life would be simpler if everybody was reporting the same cadence-speed numbers! I wonder if some of the Vado’s are shipping with 22T rear cogs and some of them are shipping with 24T. That would explain why some people are reporting that they can hit 28mph in the 90s and others can’t hit it till the 100s.

Would you mind counting how many teeth are in your rear cog?

 

[rarobo]

@rarobo that’s frustrating to hear. Life would be simpler if everybody was reporting the same cadence-speed numbers! I wonder if some of the Vado’s are shipping with 22T rear cogs and some of them are shipping with 24T. That would explain why some people are reporting that they can hit 28mph in the 90s and others can’t hit it till the 100s.

Would you mind counting how many teeth are in your rear cog?

My rear cog has 24T, I live in the North Georgia foothills, so flat roads are hard to find, Last week I rode the Chief Ladiga/ Silver Comet trail where I could test it on sections that were unoccupied, on a former engineered railway it could have had a slight grade, I wii be in Florida in January where I know it’s level. One thing I noticed that is different from some post is when you top a hill as you coast down the gear ratio changes as your coasting speed increases, that’s when I use the lowest cadence setting, I have a 3 mile stretch where I stay on the brakes to keep the speed under 40mph

 

[Tim C]

I agree with the original poster on the cadence levels for various speeds with the Vado 5.0 igh. For example 72 rpm gives me about 20 mph and 80 rpms provides right about 22mph. This is all in the slowest setting on the cadence level choices on a smooth blacktop road btw. I am not comfortable pedaling above 80 so have talked my my local bike shop guy who works with a lot of Enviolo hubs about going from the stock 24 tooth rear cog to a 22 tooth. He says this will give me about 10 % lower cadence levels which should bring my 80 rpms to around 25 mph or slightly more. 28 will still be a bit high but I don't regularly need to go that fast as 25 is plenty for me. It should also allow a better use of the different cadence settings on the controller and still have plenty adjustment to get up steep hills at least in turbo. He wasn't able to find one from his regular suppliers so was going directly to Gates company which is located here in CO.
I also own a Priority Current with a manual shifted 5 speed Enviolo which I am told has the 360 degree igh as compared to the 380 degree in the Vado. With my friend and I pedaling together in top gear the Vado had a ever so slightly higher cadence level than the Current. However 1st gear in the Current is much higher than the Vado so that is how they get it to go that fast. They both run out of gearing about the same rpm but I am not sure I would want to try the gear up the Priority any more since 1st is so high already. It should be fine on the Vado though with is greater gear range. Looking forward to this tweak on this truly amazingly smooth machine.

I'm doing the same - my bike shop had a chat with Specialized and they are going to swap out the rear cog for the smaller 22 tooth as it will still work with the same belt and provide slightly more speed without too much of a sacrifice on hills. Let us know how it feels for you.

 

[TiCruiser]

If you Google Enviolo Sprocket ratio calculator it will give you a link on the Enviolo site where you can download a spreadsheet that will give you speed at various cadences after you put in some variables.

 

[Nonlinear]

I'll chime in since I've installed a PearTune and can finally get up to 45 kmh (28 mph). To get to that speed, I need a cadence of about 95-100 rpm. This usually happens going downhill.

 

[PSm]

that is crazy. 100+ RPM at 28mph is not appropriate top gearing for a bike with a motor ridden on pavement. for reference a typical performance road bike is at about 75 RPM, a higher end hybrid/fitness bike is at 80 RPM and even a lower end hybrid/fitness bike is in the low 90s.

specialized either doesn’t intend anyone to ride these bikes fast, or something is broken. enviolo claims a 380% range on these hubs, which is comparable to the range of an 11-42 cassette.

Can you use this site https://www.bikecalc.com/speed_at_cadence
with the front and rear gear teeth, and then multiply by the eviolo % range above and below 100% ?

For example: my single speed has 64x20 gearing, and my speed in mph x 4 = ~ my cadence. Now I have a Wahoo gps and cadence sensor, but before that used that estimate. 20mph = 80rpm, 30mph = 120rpm

 

[Bill G]

This may be apples to oranges, but when I first got my Nevi 3 (class 3) which has an Enviolo hub (not automatic), I couldn't get close to 28 mph. I reset the hub to full overdrive and that solved my problem. Here is the information I used: https://support.enviolo.com/hc/en-us/articles/360011809699-CVP-Reset-to-full-overdrive

 

[PSm]

If as mentioned, the IGH is like an 11-42 cassette range, and the front is 50, from bikecalc…

 

[jimji]

Hey folks the enviolo hub app has changed. I opened it up a month ago and it looked completely different and let me set my preferred cadence down lower. When I did that it made a big difference in my peddling speed. I also had my bike shop put on a 22 tooth cog on the back and between that and the new adjustment in the app I can do 28 mph at only 76 RPM if I'm remembering right. It's pretty fabulous now but it could still be slower since I'm still not using those higher cadence settings. Still always in either slowest or slower but I'm not complaining as this is a now and enjoyable bike to ride at speed.

 

[Nonlinear]

Hey folks the enviolo hub app has changed. I opened it up a month ago and it looked completely different and let me set my preferred cadence down lower. When I did that it made a big difference in my peddling speed. I also had my bike shop put on a 22 tooth cog on the back and between that and the new adjustment in the app I can do 28 mph at only 76 RPM if I'm remembering right. It's pretty fabulous now but it could still be slower since I'm still not using those higher cadence settings. Still always in either slowest or slower but I'm not complaining as this is a now and enjoyable bike to ride at speed.

Do you have to manually set the cadence through the Enviolo app every time you restart the bike? I was able to reduce the cadence, but the setting resets when I power off the bike, and the Enviolo returns to the default cadence setting (80 rpm). If you don't have to reset, how do you save the setting? I don't see any option in the app for that.

 

[jimji]

Sorry but I can't help you with that mine I stayed at the lower one since I said it and I don't remember having to save anything at all. I can't check right now either since I'm laying on a beach in Mexico lol. Maybe check with your bike shop

 

[Nonlinear]

So I tried setting the cadence in my Enviolo app from 80rpm to 70rpm on the ride home today. There was no discernable difference in bike speeds. Then when I got home, I opened the Enviolo app again, and it had been reset to 80rpm! There is no "save" function in the app, so either the app or hub is not saving the setting, or the Specialized TCU is setting it back to 80rpm (I assume this is the case, since you can select the cadence level in the TCU - I assume this will override whatever you set the Enviolo app to). I'd be curious to hear how this is working for others who have the IGH.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Nonlinear, I am only speculating now...
What I could notice was Specialized e-bikes take the "commands" by Bluetooth rather slowly. For instance, the command to "discharge the Range Extender first" for Vado SL takes many seconds to actually "drive the lesson home". Maybe it is similar with Enviolo?

Please tell me: Does Mission Control have any parameters related to Enviolo settings? Is there any place to set Enviolo in the TCD-w2 display menus?

 

[jimji]

Yeah I would just try playing with that Enviolo app again. I don't remember but I may have left if open when I took off the first time in case I needed to change it. I noticed immediately that it felt like I had one more lower cadence setting on the mission control. I also ride on paved and gravel county roads in the country and tend to use Slower on the gravel and slowest on the pavement. It really is so nice not to have to wirlwind those pedals to go fast enough. I also bought some new handlebars with a higher rise but then the seat felt under supportive so had to go with something 3/4" wider which made a nice difference. I believe this bike just needs a few tweaks like this to make it great. I do not see anything in the Mission control that takes the place of opening up the Enviolo app. Good luck

 

[Rich W.]

Yeah - I'm in the same boat. Cadence setting is on "Slowest" and in Turbo mode (ie max power) - I get around 42-43kph (around 26mph) on the flat with no wind, but with a cadence or over 100rpm. I have just had a chat on the phone with the bike shop. They feel its the gear ratios and if you want to get more speed they may be able to swap out the gear set but the downside is less support for the lowest gear on hills. Anyway I have started the conversation and they are going to look into it.

I’m doing this on my Tero. I never use 1st anyway so I’ll start with a chain ring. If that doesn't do it, then its a new drive train - cassette, derailleur, shifter….but chain ring first. The drive train idea would give my low gearing back - 12sp 11-50 or even 10-52 (more $$). But maybe as my fitness improves the chain ring will prove adequate. I’m new to this so just starting to experiment, but I would like to be able to ride at higher speeds when sharing the road with cars and 100+ cadence isn’t reasonable. I’ll do the test for general info.

 

[Nonlinear]

So I tried setting the cadence in my Enviolo app from 80rpm to 70rpm on the ride home today. There was no discernable difference in bike speeds. Then when I got home, I opened the Enviolo app again, and it had been reset to 80rpm! There is no "save" function in the app, so either the app or hub is not saving the setting, or the Specialized TCU is setting it back to 80rpm (I assume this is the case, since you can select the cadence level in the TCU - I assume this will override whatever you set the Enviolo app to). I'd be curious to hear how this is working for others who have the IGH.

On my commute to work today, I changed my cadence in the TCU from "Standard" to "Slowest". When I arrived at the office, I checked the cadence in the Enviolo app, and it reported a value of 65 rpm. Based on this, and my earlier results above, I'm convinced that the cadence setting in the MasterMind TCU overrides the cadence setting in the Enviolo app. It's not possible to adjust the setting in the Enviolo app, because the MasterMind will override it. This is how it works on my bike, anyway.

 

[jimji]

I am beginning to wonder if the difference in my bike is related rto them updating the software after they put the 22 tooth sprocket on the back. Who knows. Just for fun I would try deleting both your apps and reloading them and see what happens.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I'm convinced that the cadence setting in the MasterMind TCU overrides the cadence setting in the Enviolo app. It's not possible to adjust the setting in the Enviolo app, because the MasterMind will override it.

Toldya

Is there any place to set Enviolo in the TCD-w2 display menus?

Besides, I do not think the big Vado has a TCU. It has the TCD-w2

 

[MacGuy]

@rarobo that’s frustrating to hear. Life would be simpler if everybody was reporting the same cadence-speed numbers! I wonder if some of the Vado’s are shipping with 22T rear cogs and some of them are shipping with 24T. That would explain why some people are reporting that they can hit 28mph in the 90s and others can’t hit it till the 100s.

Would you mind counting how many teeth are in your rear cog?

Hi there--I've been planning to get a Vado 5.0 since my test rides last summer with the auto had exactly the issue you identified. But now after waiting for months, the dealer says no Vado 5.0 in sight. But they do have a Vado 5.0 Auto. I'll test ride it this weekend, but wonder for those that have had it for a while, if this issue has gotten resolved with a software update or it's about shifting the small cog or it's just as much of an issue as ever.

 

[Nonlinear]

On my commute to work today, I changed my cadence in the TCU from "Standard" to "Slowest". When I arrived at the office, I checked the cadence in the Enviolo app, and it reported a value of 65 rpm. Based on this, and my earlier results above, I'm convinced that the cadence setting in the MasterMind TCU overrides the cadence setting in the Enviolo app. It's not possible to adjust the setting in the Enviolo app, because the MasterMind will override it. This is how it works on my bike, anyway.

I just wanted to follow up with official information from Enviolo (I contacted them via email). They confirmed my results above, stating

"Because the interface is controlled by the Brose motor software, the Brose is dominant over our app. The change in the app will be canceled by the motor. Change in cadance can only be done by the Brose display."

Thus, it seems we can only control cadence via the Mastermind app, not via the Enviolo app (since it is overridden by the Mastermind). Just sharing in hopes this helps someone!