Turbo Vado 5.0: IGH or chain?

[teskow]

" How many car racers use automatic transmission?"
I just read a couple of days ago that most now use paddle shifters do they must be automatic transmissions. Many double clutch?

 

[rarobo]

" How many car racers use automatic transmission?"
I just read a couple of days ago that most now use paddle shifters do they must be automatic transmissions. Many double clutch?

That’s correct the Ford 10 speed automatic will out run the straight shift , they have removed the torque converter slip ,slowly getting that way

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I just read a couple of days ago that most now use paddle shifters do they must be automatic transmissions. Many double clutch?

Why should any automatic transmission car have any shifter?

 

[scrambler]

Options Stepan, Options...

Many modern consumer automatic transmissions cars offer both a fully automatic mode and a manual mode, for those who like it or find a need to change gears manually under some circumstances.
Some have paddle shifting , some have a traditional shifter with the regular P, N, D, L position, and then when you push the shifter to the Left, you have a Plus and Minus (up and down) position you can temporarily push the shifter in to upshift or downshift. And that even on cars with a Continuously Variable Transmission.

Nothing wrong with more options, it opens the solution to more people and allow people who like it one way to experiment with the other way, and who knows, sometimes find out they can enjoy it too.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Options Stepan, Options...

Many modern consumer automatic transmissions cars offer both a fully automatic mode and a manual mode, for those who like it or find a need to change gears manually under some circumstances.
Some have paddle shifting , some have a traditional shifter with the regular P, N, D, L position, and then when you push the shifter to the Left, you have a Plus and Minus (up and down) position you can temporarily push the shifter in to upshift or downshift. And that even on cars with a Continuously Variable Transmission.

Nothing wrong with more options, it opens the solution to more people and allow people who like it one way to experiment with the other way, and who knows, sometimes find out they can enjoy it too.

All the above has nothing to do with race cars. The same Vado IGH will be a dream on the pavement but will not pass the demanding trip in mixed terrain. There is simply no all-rounder.

Did anyone mention electric and hybrid cars that have no transmission whatsoever? Still the P, N, D, R buttons there.

 

[Tim C]

You're never too old to get your leg over!

Seriously, around here, there are quite a few male riders using step-throughs.

Yep - I have a step-through. Really makes life easy

 

[Tim C]

All the above has nothing to do with race cars. The same Vado IGH will be a dream on the pavement but will not pass the demanding trip in mixed terrain. There is simply no all-rounder.

Did anyone mention electric and hybrid cars that have no transmission whatsoever? Still the P, N, D, R buttons there.

@Stefan Mikes As previously mentioned, you can add a manual gear selector on the IGH bikes to override the automatic system - so you can have the best of both worlds (similar to most automatic cars)

 

[GuruUno]

All the above has nothing to do with race cars. The same Vado IGH will be a dream on the pavement but will not pass the demanding trip in mixed terrain. There is simply no all-rounder.

Did anyone mention electric and hybrid cars that have no transmission whatsoever? Still the P, N, D, R buttons there.

Not that this has anything to do with e-bikes, but an interesting observation nonetheless (as Stefan points out about electric cars and hybrid cars), I was at drive thru at the local bank Saturday on my Vado 5.0, and a Tesla Model 3 pulled into the stall to my left. I saw his right front tire had a gash in it and alerted him to it. He said he knew and was getting new tires in a few days. I had mentioned that I heard that Tesla Model 3 cars wear out tires rapidly. He informs me that because the car weighs close to 8,000 pounds + high torque tends to wear out the tires more rapidly than "normal" cars, he has to replace tires every 8,000 to 12,000 miles at over $600 per tire!! So, for the adopters of electric cars, although a positive thing for the environment, (supposedly), at over $2,500 for 4 new tires at say every 10,000 or so miles....is the electric car owner (at least in this example) really saving any money or is owning that car a much, much more expensive proposition than was initially bargained for? Some reference: https://www.hotcars.com/tesla-model-s-plaid-tire-problem-solved-ford-mustang-mach-e/

 

[mschwett]

Not that this has anything to do with e-bikes, but an interesting observation nonetheless (as Stefan points out about electric cars and hybrid cars), I was at drive thru at the local bank Saturday on my Vado 5.0, and a Tesla Model 3 pulled into the stall to my left. I saw his right front tire had a gash in it and alerted him to it. He said he knew and was getting new tires in a few days. I had mentioned that I heard that Tesla Model 3 cars wear out tires rapidly. He informs me that because the car weighs close to 8,000 pounds + high torque tends to wear out the tires more rapidly than "normal" cars, he has to replace tires every 8,000 to 12,000 miles at over $600 per tire!! So, for the adopters of electric cars, although a positive thing for the environment, (supposedly), at over $2,500 for 4 new tires at say every 10,000 or so miles....is the electric car owner (at least in this example) really saving any money or is owning that car a much, much more expensive proposition than was initially bargained for? Some reference: https://www.hotcars.com/tesla-model-s-plaid-tire-problem-solved-ford-mustang-mach-e/

if you're going to repeat stuff you hear either on the internet or in person, it's good to do even a tiny bit of fact checking.

a model 3 weighs around 4,000lb, usually a bit under.

a bmw model 3 sedan weighs just over 3,500lb. so a model 3 is heavier - by about 14 percent.

the michelin tires stock on a tesla with 18" wheels have a 45,000 mile warranty, provided you rotate them. the guy you talked to is an idiot.

electric cars DO have a TON of torque from very low speeds, and are a bit heavier, but if you're not driving like an idiot (see above!) you're going to get much, much, much more than 8-12k miles on them.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I had a talk with two nice guys at a local restaurant bar by name of Partisan Cuisine I joined the chat of those two guys when I heard the friend of one of them rode a powerful "e-bike". He said the man had a 20" fat tyre custom e-bike with a huge motor and an immense battery, able to travel even at 100 km/h, throttle only even of that "moped" had pedals, and it weighed over 60 kg (130+ lb).

The guy was telling us how he made fun of the "e-bike" owner: 'Man, you paid well over US$7,000 for it? Would not it be simpler to just buy a motorcycle? And what do you need the pedals for?"

He also said the rear wheel in that man's "e-bike" got damaged very quickly beyond repair: not only big weight of the bike but immense torque exerted on that wheel in the first place!

 

[scrambler]

Sure, let us keep polarizing this world on everything, even the most riduclous and superfluous.
It is not messed up enough as it is...

All this time spent on finding reason to criticize, hate, vindicate, discriminate... would bring so much more reward if it was turned towards the positive side of things....

 

[GizmoEV]

He informs me that because the car weighs close to 8,000 pounds + high torque tends to wear out the tires more rapidly than "normal" cars, he has to replace tires every 8,000 to 12,000 miles at over $600 per tire!!

I got over 60,000 miles on the factory tires on my Kia Soul EV and the tires on my Kia Niro EV seem to be holding up just as well. Drive crazy and the tires wear out fast, regardless of what propulsion system is employed.

 

[BigJ]

I start coming to the same conclusion. The Vado 5.0 IGH might be an interesting city commuter e-bike.

I have given a second thought to whether I would be happy with the IGH and now I would say: "It's not for me". I've realized I mostly ride mixed terrain (it is called "gravel cycling"). However fantastic the IGH might be, it cannot do the single important thing: the IGH cannot predict the type of terrain ahead. It often happens I am confronted with a sudden hill on my forest rides. With the derailleur/chain, I simply dramatically downshift in advance and often go into Turbo mode to negotiate the hill. Were it the automatic IGH, it would only start working during the climb; and I would lose the momentum. Or, I could be just riding into the sand: the same action with the derailleur: a dramatic downshift before I rode into the sand. The automatic IGH would make me suddenly stop, and that might mean a crash.

Horses for courses. The IGH might be a perfect commuter e-bike but not an all-rounder!

Hey Stefan,
I've been using the "cadence" adjustment lately to act like I am dropping a bunch of gears on a derailleur drivetrain. This method seems to help me keep my momentum on hills and stay comfortable in the pedals. Though it does not feel exactly like riding an analog bike, it's closer.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Hey Stefan,
I've been using the "cadence" adjustment lately to act like I am dropping a bunch of gears on a derailleur drivetrain. This method seems to help me keep my momentum on hills and stay comfortable in the pedals. Though it does not feel exactly like riding an analog bike, it's closer.

BigJ, I appreciate the Enviolo Automatiq and were I only riding pavement, I would become a fan as "the cadence is King (or Queen)". However, I'm afraid the automatic IGH e-bike would not be good for me for the kind of activities I do on chain/derailleur e-bikes. I'm glad your Vado IGH serves you well!

 

[GuruUno]

Hey Stefan,
I've been using the "cadence" adjustment lately to act like I am dropping a bunch of gears on a derailleur drivetrain. This method seems to help me keep my momentum on hills and stay comfortable in the pedals. Though it does not feel exactly like riding an analog bike, it's closer.

re: I have given a second thought to whether I would be happy with the IGH and now I would say: "It's not for me". I've realized I mostly ride mixed terrain (it is called "gravel cycling"). However fantastic the IGH might be, it cannot do the single important thing: the IGH cannot predict the type of terrain ahead. It often happens I am confronted with a sudden hill on my forest rides. With the derailleur/chain, I simply dramatically downshift in advance and often go into Turbo mode to negotiate the hill. Were it the automatic IGH, it would only start working during the climb; and I would lose the momentum. Or, I could be just riding into the sand: the same action with the derailleur: a dramatic downshift before I rode into the sand

EXACTLY

 

[BigJ]

BigJ, I appreciate the Enviolo Automatiq and were I only riding pavement, I would become a fan as "the cadence is King (or Queen)". However, I'm afraid the automatic IGH e-bike would not be good for me for the kind of activities I do on chain/derailleur e-bikes. I'm glad your Vado IGH serves you well!

Stefan,
Never bring a knife to a gun fight. I own 5 bicycles. All of them have their place in my quiver. I've yet to see an ebike brand add the automatiq IGH to a mountain bike and/or gravel specific bicycle. Perhaps for reasons you have expressed. Cheers!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Stefan,
Never bring a knife to a gun fight. I own 5 bicycles. All of them have their place in my quiver. I've yet to see an ebike brand add the automatiq IGH to a mountain bike and/or gravel specific bicycle. Perhaps for reasons you have expressed. Cheers!

I used to own 4 of them I perfectly understand why you love your Vado IGH!

Your comment is just fabulous @BigJ and I enjoyed it! For myself, I reduced the number of e-bikes owned to N-2 and with any new technology wonder I ask myself two questions:

• Which of my e-bikes would become abandoned in case I bought the latest & greatest?
• Will the new e-bike make me a better cyclist?

Sadly, the answers make me stick to the existing e-bikes, and I can control my Gear Acquisition Syndrome Oh, I really wanted a Creo to realise it was the same kind of silly ideas that made me buy a Giant Trance E+ 2 Pro

All the best to you!

 

[GuruUno]

I used to own 4 of them

Guns or knives?

 

[dynamic]

All the above has nothing to do with race cars. The same Vado IGH will be a dream on the pavement but will not pass the demanding trip in mixed terrain. There is simply no all-rounder.

Stefan, I love your experience with things you actually own and have used for extended periods. Don't make this statement having never ridden the bike.

For the record, I took my vado IGH on everything from sand/gravel to light single track. I promise you, the terrain I took it on puts any picture I have seen stefan post to shame. If you *require* to spin up before a hill, because you can't let go of old ways of doing things, then simply increase the cadence setting. That will cause the same behavior. The automatic IGH is simply *exceptional* when working.

All that said: I still recommend people stay away from this bike. And, I do think there is terrain reasoning behind it. I have now run into a series of local people who have owned this bike and every single one of them developed problems like mine. I *think* terrain other than simple paved city terrain may be part of the issue. And because I *did* do the above terrain, the bike couldn't handle it.

 

[GuruUno]

Stefan, I love your experience with things you actually own and have used for extended periods. Don't make this statement having never ridden the bike.

For the record, I took my vado IGH on everything from sand/gravel to light single track. I promise you, the terrain I took it on puts any picture I have seen stefan post to shame. If you *require* to spin up before a hill, because you can't let go of old ways of doing things, then simply increase the cadence setting. That will cause the same behavior. The automatic IGH is simply *exceptional* when working.

All that said: I still recommend people stay away from this bike. And, I do think there is terrain reasoning behind it. I have now run into a series of local people who have owned this bike and every single one of them developed problems like mine. I *think* terrain other than simple paved city terrain may be part of the issue. And because I *did* do the above terrain, the bike couldn't handle it.

1,000 % agreed. It's a shame though. Maybe in the next few years it could be perfected. Maybe. But given the track record of Specialized sloooooooow response for things, who know, maybe when I'm dead