Specialized Turbo Vado SL: An Incredible E-Bike (User Club)

[fatshark]

many of us have puzzled over these puzzles !

mission control’s elevation records come from your phone, not the bike or any maps, and different phones have different altimeters. the latest iphones have barometric altimeters which are cross referenced to GPS for “leveling” purposes, and they’re not bad. GPS only altitude is useless. cross referencing recorded altitude from the altimeter to known elevational from GPS map positions is the best way, which is i believe what strava and rwGPS do. i tend to trust strava’s elevation numbers most.

as for moving time, if you hit pause and start a bunch in mission control, you’ll find more and more discrepancy with the strava moving time, which is calculated by strava from the position data and seems VERY uppity about considering when you’re stopped. even slight movement in the position track, as you see with GPS when rapidly stopping, does not show as stopped for a while in strava. take a close look at the strava ride analysis and see if it thinks you were moving for 21-25 minutes more than you think you were.

otherwise, those three results are actually quite similar. some have found much bigger errors due to incorrect wheel size setting, bad GPS reception, etc.

Thanks Mark ... I wonder if Mission Control's moving time is related to the bike moving time, whereas Strava takes its info from the movement of the GPS sensor? That way, if I parked up and walked around (without manually pausing Mission Control) the GPS would still record movement if the phone was in my pocket, but MC wouldn't 'count' it as the bike was stationary.

I'll give this a test ...

 

[RonnyW]

Hi All,

After testing the Vado 4 and the Vado S L4, I purchased the SL non-eq last weekend.

As I have a spare wheelset from my normal racing road bike, I was wondering if I could install it on the Vado SL.

The wheels are DT Swiss E1800 spline with 28mm tyres (real width on rim is 30mm).

E 1800 SPLINE - Robust Endurance Road Wheels | DT Swiss

Robust and reliable, these road wheels are perfect for commuting or everday use cruising the city.

www.dtswiss.com

Specialized specs I found:
Front Hub: 12x110mm, 24 Hole, Rear Hub: 12x148mm, 28 Hole

DT Swiss specs:
12x110mm and 12x142mm

So looks like the back hub is too narrow to fit.. I don't suppose you can compensate for that?

 

[ronaan]

So I did my first ride on Sunday and had a nice 40 km tour with my best friend. He has a full power bike, Kalkhoff Entice 5B+ I think. We're both heavy boys, and I haven't been on a bike for serious riding in something like seven years.

In the end I had to get off and push the bike for two short (100m) instances, where my legs just couldn't keep going on 20%+ uphill situations. I also "pushed" on a 200m downhill section (almost trail like) where I just didn't trust myself and the bike enough.

Other than that, it was amazing. The battery would have lasted the whole way, but I put the range extender on at 13% remaining in the main battery.

Considered changing the chainblade to something smaller but I might also just try to regain some leg power and deal with the 44/45 setup.

Took the bike to work this morning and managed 19 km in 55 minutes. Good portion of downward road though, max speed 61.3 km/h

The way home will take a bit longer.

 

[mschwett]

Thanks Mark ... I wonder if Mission Control's moving time is related to the bike moving time, whereas Strava takes its info from the movement of the GPS sensor? That way, if I parked up and walked around (without manually pausing Mission Control) the GPS would still record movement if the phone was in my pocket, but MC wouldn't 'count' it as the bike was stationary.

I'll give this a test ...

definitely. strava seems to determine moving time from the GPS track, not the wheel sensor data. you can also see a variant of this when you use strava’s “correct distance” function which changes time, not just distance, lol!

for my rides, where i often pause mission control at every small stop (for a stop light) i’ll often see a difference of up to 5 minutes over a couple hours.

 

[mschwett]

So I did my first ride on Sunday and had a nice 40 km tour with my best friend. He has a full power bike, Kalkhoff Entice 5B+ I think. We're both heavy boys, and I haven't been on a bike for serious riding in something like seven years.

In the end I had to get off and push the bike for two short (100m) instances, where my legs just couldn't keep going on 20%+ uphill situations. I also "pushed" on a 200m downhill section (almost trail like) where I just didn't trust myself and the bike enough.

Other than that, it was amazing. The battery would have lasted the whole way, but I put the range extender on at 13% remaining in the main battery.

Considered changing the chainblade to something smaller but I might also just try to regain some leg power and deal with the 44/45 setup.

Took the bike to work this morning and managed 19 km in 55 minutes. Good portion of downward road though, max speed 61.3 km/h

The way home will take a bit longer.

sounds like a fantastic first ride! 40lm is nothing to sneeze at for a first go, the bike must fit you well.

a 20% grade takes better than 1:1 gearing for most of us, i’ve enjoyed having a smaller front ring on my SL bike.

 

[mschwett]

Hi All,

After testing the Vado 4 and the Vado S L4, I purchased the SL non-eq last weekend.

As I have a spare wheelset from my normal racing road bike, I was wondering if I could install it on the Vado SL.

The wheels are DT Swiss E1800 spline with 28mm tyres (real width on rim is 30mm).

E 1800 SPLINE - Robust Endurance Road Wheels | DT Swiss

Robust and reliable, these road wheels are perfect for commuting or everday use cruising the city.

www.dtswiss.com

Specialized specs I found:
Front Hub: 12x110mm, 24 Hole, Rear Hub: 12x148mm, 28 Hole

DT Swiss specs:
12x110mm and 12x142mm

So looks like the back hub is too narrow to fit.. I don't suppose you can compensate for that?

yeah - “road boost” wheel sizing. you can get an adapter, i’m not sure it’s something you’d want to frequently change, as this notes the wheel needs to be re-dished by 3mm.

Problem Solvers Rear 6mm Booster Kit - 6-Bolt Hub

Wonder why the Problem Solvers Booster Hub Spacing Kit - Rear is a mountain biker favorite in the Rear Axle Conversion Kit collection? Part #03-000188. Booster thru-axle hub spacer kits are designed to give your non-Boost front and rear thru-axle hubs the boost they need to fit any...

www.worldwidecyclery.com

 

[ronaan]

sounds like a fantastic first ride! 40lm is nothing to sneeze at for a first go, the bike must fit you well.

a 20% grade takes better than 1:1 gearing for most of us, i’ve enjoyed having a smaller front ring on my SL bike.

The saddle is better than I anticipated, didn't even wear padded pants.

38T chainring seems to be the way to go if I switch it out, right? I'd lose some theoretical top speed but at 40km/h I'm not actively trying to accelerate anyway. Doesn't hurt to try. Well it hurts the bank account but meh.

 

[mschwett]

The saddle is better than I anticipated, didn't even wear padded pants.

38T chainring seems to be the way to go if I switch it out, right? I'd lose some theoretical top speed but at 40km/h I'm not actively trying to accelerate anyway. Doesn't hurt to try. Well it hurts the bank account but meh.

that’s a pretty big jump; but with 38 up front and 10-45 in back you’d have some pretty serious climbing ability! i’d go 40t to keep the top end above 4.0:1 but it really depends how much you see super steep grades like that. i do a bit of gravel / off road on my creo SL (very similar to your vado) and 20% is just about my limit.

 

[rochrunner]

I'm more and more confused with all these systems, Mark!
Take my latest long ride:

• Wahoo and BLEvo both have reported about the same distance ridden (good)
• The elevation gain data for both systems didn't match Strava
• Wahoo gave the net ride time 10 minutes shorter than BLEvo. I compared the average ride speed to other group ride members and Wahoo was correct
• Wahoo typically reports weird Max Speed because of some glitch.

How to live?

Just a comment on total elevation numbers. When I do a ride with my Garmin Edge, the data is also uploaded to Strava and to another program that I use called SportTracks. When I do a virtual ride with my Wahoo Kickr and FulGaz app, the data goes right to Strava, but they also send me a .fit file that I can manually upload to Garmin Connect and SportTracks. The point is that the total elevation gain in all these scenarios never matches across platforms, sometimes significantly, and even when applying topo map "correction", etc.

I think that the problem is exactly what constitutes a "gain". Obviously a big climb up a hill counts, but what about a gently rolling road? Should every little up and down count? Even a speed bump is an elevation change of a few inches. It's similar to a problem when studying fractal geometry that's often expressed as "How long is the coastline of Britain?" When you look at it on a large scale map, it's easy to measure around the outline and come up with a number. But then as you start zooming in, at every scale you notice some jaggedness and have to measure in and out of all those irregularities. Continue to zoom in and more detail appears, adding to the length as you trace around them. Elevation gain is the same thing: do you just count the difference between the bottom and top of climb, or do you count every undulation along the way?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

do you count every undulation along the way

This, except of bumps. That's why my Q1 total elevation gain is a massive figure even if I'm riding in the flatland.

The reason is even the smallest climb takes your and motor power for increase in the potential energy. Part of that energy is recovered on descents to increase the kinetic energy but big part of it is lost as heat (in the brakes but not only there).

 

[rochrunner]

The reason is even the smallest climb takes your and motor power for increase in the potential energy. Part of that energy is recovered on descents to increase the kinetic energy but big part of it is lost as heat (in the brakes but not only there).

Thanks for increasing the entropy of the Universe...

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Thanks for increasing the entropy of the Universe...

Well, eventually everything we input into the cranks becomes heat

 

[Stefan Mikes]

38T chainring seems to be the way to go if I switch it out, right?

I had a 38T chainring in the combination with a 11-46T cassette in high mountains on my full power Vado and that saved my life...

 

[fatshark]

I also count speed bumps in my elevation gain ... every little bit helps
I must look at the options for a new chainring ... I've barely touched the smaller cogs at the back and would be keen to reduce some of the steeper angles the chain has to subtend to reduce wear.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Let me tell you a story @fatshark.

There is a climb in our Mazovia province (which is basically flat) that is a benchmark for Warsaw roadies: The Góra Kalwaria Climb. It is mere 10.1% but roadies don't use mountain gearing here. When I used to climb that hill with my powerful Vado (48-42T gearing at that time), I could ride up the hill like a boss However, my Vado SL has a modified gearing without the granny gear, so the low gear is 44-36T. And the motor is half as powerful as the big 1.2s. Climbing Góra Kalwaria on my Vado SL is something I can do only with great effort. I would fail climbing any steeper hill on that e-bike with such a gearing!

 

[kahn]

Well, eventually everything we input into the cranks becomes heat

I am cranky if it is too hot or too cold!

 

[mschwett]

Let me tell you a story @fatshark.

There is a climb in our Mazovia province (which is basically flat) that is a benchmark for Warsaw roadies: The Góra Kalwaria Climb. It is mere 10.1% but roadies don't use mountain gearing here. When I used to climb that hill with my powerful Vado (48-42T gearing at that time), I could ride up the hill like a boss However, my Vado SL has a modified gearing without the granny gear, so the low gear is 44-36T. And the motor is half as powerful as the big 1.2s. Climbing Góra Kalwaria on my Vado SL is something I can do only with great effort. I would fail climbing any steeper hill on that e-bike with such a gearing!

10% on a long, paved road, is a VERY significant climb, certainly mid-drive territory! most extended climbs here are 6-10% just because that's how roads have been built in the new world for the last 100 years. it looks maybe like the one you're referring to is quite short though, with some extremely steep sections.

gearing, of course, is directly tied to grade and weight. predictably, i found that a 14lb lighter bike (7% lighter total load) allowed me to climb comfortably with 7% longer gearing, e.g. going from 42:42 on my creo to the equivalent of 42:39. the same would apply of course going in other other direction, e.g. from a Vado SL to a Vado, you'll need even shorter gearing to make a meaningful human contribution.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I am cranky if it is too hot or too cold!

You're a roadie by heart...

 

[Stefan Mikes]

gearing, of course, is directly tied to grade and weight. predictably, i found that a 14lb lighter bike (7% lighter total load) allowed me to climb comfortably with 7% longer gearing, e.g. going from 42:42 on my creo to the equivalent of 42:39. the same would apply of course going in other other direction, e.g. from a Vado SL to a Vado, you'll need even shorter gearing to make a meaningful human contribution.

It also depends on the rider's weight.

 

[mschwett]

It also depends on the rider's weight.

yep, of course. my 7% figure above is including the rider's weight. for some of us it might be easier to save 7% total weight by dieting than by buying a more expensive bike, others the opposite! and of course one can always just get a bigger battery and motor, big vado vs little vado !