Specialized Turbo Vado SL: An Incredible E-Bike (User Club)

[2wheelsgood]

I guess SL motors are programmed for a kind of "soft cut-off", so the transition between assisted vs unassisted is barely noticeable. As the EU/UK law requires the assistance "should be gradually reduced to become zero at 25 km/h", the actual motor power delivered in the transition zone must be very low anyway (despite the audible motor buzz). I would not worry about it were I you My Vado SL actually cuts of at some 26 km/h so yes, it could be the tolerance. What tyre width are you using?

Just the standard Pathfinder Sport 38s. I have ordered the 42 Pros though and they will be fitted next week.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Just the standard Pathfinder Sport 38s. I have ordered the 42 Pros though and they will be fitted next week.

Well, the tyre size is programmed in the system. I actually do not know for what tyre size the default Wheel Circumference is entered in the TCU. It might be your TCU reports a different speed than it actually is? I am really not sure!

 

[mogulman]

So. I've always felt pretty confident riding Vader, my 5.0 SL. Felt like I could keep up with other riders. My son, 22 year old, got an older Felt carbon road bike 10x2 gearing and we decided to do a ride together. He isn't a bike rider, but is wanting to start getting into it. He is pretty fit.

We rode about 20 miles with about 500 feet of ascent over the course. Basically he was blowing me away. I tried keeping up with him and setting microtune. 70, 80, 90,100 percent.

I was peddling at about 80-85 rpm cadence almost the entire time. I could catch him on bigger hills. All the other times I had to keep my power at 90-100% in order to keep up with him. I think he was consistently riding at 19mph and higher on the flats.

Do I just relegate myself to ”Thats just the way it is!". Or maybe I'm too weak to ride with fit bike riders on a road bike? Or maybe I need a full ebike to keep up with them?

I mostly ride alone or with some people who aren't in great shape, so it's not a big deal. Just felt bad that I couldn't keep up.

Just wondering what other people's experience is with riding a Vado SL and trying to keep up with fit road bike riders? Is it partially due to aerodynamics too?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Or maybe I need a full ebike to keep up with them?

Yes. And use Microtune there to keep at their speed.

Is it partially due to aerodynamics too?

Very much. While it is possible to ride a full power e-bike at 25 mph, that eats the battery very fast.

I could match or exceed roadies on our workouts last Summer. I was riding a Vado 6.0 (this is like U.S. Class 3 Vado 5.0) but always took two 600 Wh batteries for a merely 70 km workout!

Pay attention to the Average and Max Speed. I was riding at 40 or 50% assistance, and actually needed two batteries (degraded to 500 Wh each). I could venture such a workout with a 710 Wh battery on a new Vado 5.0 but certainly would have no juice for returning home (20 km)! I had to ride up the starting line, too (20 km).

Just wondering what other people's experience is with riding a Vado SL and trying to keep up with fit road bike riders?

I could cope against very much able riders with a derestricted Vado SL if I used 80/80% (gravel) or 100/100% (asphalt) assistance. Gravel (not road) rides. Bear in mind, I own and often carry 4 Range Extenders. If such a ride occured in a hilly area, I would have not stood a chance!

 

[2wheelsgood]

If the hills are not too savage and your bike is limited to 25km/h then I am afraid you have little chance of keeping up with a fit rider on a road bike.

My old bike is a 10kg hydrid and I am faster on that on a regular route than I am on the Vado SL.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

So. I've always felt pretty confident riding Vader, my 5.0 SL. Felt like I could keep up with other riders. My son, 22 year old, got an older Felt carbon road bike 10x2 gearing and we decided to do a ride together. He isn't a bike rider, but is wanting to start getting into it. He is pretty fit.

We rode about 20 miles with about 500 feet of ascent over the course. Basically he was blowing me away. I tried keeping up with him and setting microtune. 70, 80, 90,100 percent.

I was peddling at about 80-85 rpm cadence almost the entire time. I could catch him on bigger hills. All the other times I had to keep my power at 90-100% in order to keep up with him. I think he was consistently riding at 19mph and higher on the flats.

Do I just relegate myself to ”Thats just the way it is!". Or maybe I'm too weak to ride with fit bike riders on a road bike? Or maybe I need a full ebike to keep up with them?

I mostly ride alone or with some people who aren't in great shape, so it's not a big deal. Just felt bad that I couldn't keep up.

Just wondering what other people's experience is with riding a Vado SL and trying to keep up with fit road bike riders? Is it partially due to aerodynamics too?

Bit of everything I’d say and I wouldn’t worry about it too much. Age and all that. If you do more rides/get fitter on the Vado SL that will help but averaging 19mph is pretty fast in my opinion. I’d certainly have been dropped on my Vado SL as I’d have been over the 25km cut off at that speed and even if I had assist that’s faster then I can normally go. If you’re going to do a lot with your son maybe look at either a bigger motor or go the drop bar route of the Creo etc.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

your bike is limited to 25km/h

Mogulman's e-bike is limited to 45 km/h but Vado SL is not aerodynamic and is underpowered for road racing

 

[mogulman]

I think I was riding at 11/12 on my gearing at 80-85 cadence.

@Stefan Mikes so I know you have a full Vado. Assuming it was in the USA or derestricted. It seems like you are able to keep up with road biker, at the expense of having to keep multiple batteries.

Do you enjoy it? Or would you rather ride the SL and not worry?

 

[BEC111]

So. I've always felt pretty confident riding Vader, my 5.0 SL. Felt like I could keep up with other riders. My son, 22 year old, got an older Felt carbon road bike 10x2 gearing and we decided to do a ride together. He isn't a bike rider, but is wanting to start getting into it. He is pretty fit.

We rode about 20 miles with about 500 feet of ascent over the course. Basically he was blowing me away. I tried keeping up with him and setting microtune. 70, 80, 90,100 percent.

I was peddling at about 80-85 rpm cadence almost the entire time. I could catch him on bigger hills. All the other times I had to keep my power at 90-100% in order to keep up with him. I think he was consistently riding at 19mph and higher on the flats.

Do I just relegate myself to ”Thats just the way it is!". Or maybe I'm too weak to ride with fit bike riders on a road bike? Or maybe I need a full ebike to keep up with them?

I mostly ride alone or with some people who aren't in great shape, so it's not a big deal. Just felt bad that I couldn't keep up.

Just wondering what other people's experience is with riding a Vado SL and trying to keep up with fit road bike riders? Is it partially due to aerodynamics too?

Your experience highlights one of big delusions of the anti Ebike crowd. I average between 14 mph and 16 mph on my usual W&OD routes. There are several sect where I can ride 20-25 mph slower riders and pedestrians allowing. Even at those speeds I’m frequently passed by road bikes going 30 mph or more. Fears about Ebike speeds seem misplaced in these contexts.

 

[mogulman]

Your experience highlights one of big delusions of the anti Ebike crowd. I average between 14 mph and 16 mph on my usual W&OD routes. There are several sect where I can ride 20-25 mph slower riders and pedestrians allowing. Even at those speeds I’m frequently passed by road bikes going 30 mph or more. Fears about Ebike speeds seem misplaced in these contexts.

Totally agree.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

Your experience highlights one of big delusions of the anti Ebike crowd. I average between 14 mph and 16 mph on my usual W&OD routes. There are several sect where I can ride 20-25 mph slower riders and pedestrians allowing. Even at those speeds I’m frequently passed by road bikes going 30 mph or more. Fears about Ebike speeds seem misplaced in these contexts.

There’s been loads of complaining about this with road cyclists who through age or disability get a lightweight e road bike so they can continue to ride out with groups like they previously have. But the unassisted groups frequently ride faster then the 25km cut off and so they struggle to keep up. It was a terrible reactionary decision to pick that speed as cut off 20mph

 

[Rás Cnoic]

There’s been loads of complaining about this with road cyclists who through age or disability get a lightweight e road bike so they can continue to ride out with groups like they previously have. But the unassisted groups frequently ride faster then the 25km cut off and so they struggle to keep up. It was a terrible reactionary decision to pick that speed as cut off 20mph

Sorry hit button by mistake- 20mph or 32km would be a better cut off point.

 

[GAJ]

So. I've always felt pretty confident riding Vader, my 5.0 SL. Felt like I could keep up with other riders. My son, 22 year old, got an older Felt carbon road bike 10x2 gearing and we decided to do a ride together. He isn't a bike rider, but is wanting to start getting into it. He is pretty fit.

We rode about 20 miles with about 500 feet of ascent over the course. Basically he was blowing me away. I tried keeping up with him and setting microtune. 70, 80, 90,100 percent.

I was peddling at about 80-85 rpm cadence almost the entire time. I could catch him on bigger hills. All the other times I had to keep my power at 90-100% in order to keep up with him. I think he was consistently riding at 19mph and higher on the flats.

Do I just relegate myself to ”Thats just the way it is!". Or maybe I'm too weak to ride with fit bike riders on a road bike? Or maybe I need a full ebike to keep up with them?

I mostly ride alone or with some people who aren't in great shape, so it's not a big deal. Just felt bad that I couldn't keep up.

Just wondering what other people's experience is with riding a Vado SL and trying to keep up with fit road bike riders? Is it partially due to aerodynamics too?

What tire pressure do you use?

I have had no ill effects with 70 psi.

Maybe have your son reduce his by 10 psi.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

@Stefan Mikes so I know you have a full Vado. Assuming it was in the USA or derestricted. It seems like you are able to keep up with road biker, at the expense of having to keep multiple batteries.

Do you enjoy it?

I decidedly enjoyed that experience, although my riding mates of both sexes were joking: 'Stefan is the only one person we know who brings a pannier to a road racing workout!' It was a great pleasure to be able to take the lead at times, and let the rest of the group draft behind me (no braking allowed!) On the evening returns, I could serve the whole group with my mighty Supernova headlight, so they could see the road in the front of them perfectly! (I still estimate a single battery at 40-50% assistance would do if not the necessary commutes before and post the ride).

Or would you rather ride the SL and not worry?

This depends on several factors. For solo rides, Vado SL is often my primary choice as I am not in hurry, can dictate my own tempo, get a good workout, and enjoy riding 'just a bike'. If it comes to gravel group rides, my modified Vado SL is often my primary choice. Its low weight and slightly agressive tubeless tyres make the e-bike handle the rough terrain a way better than the heavy Vado could. I often need to carry the e-bike over obstacles, and there Vado SL is the natural choice. Pretty recently, I was on a 70+ mile Vado SL solo ride; or on a 60 mile gravel ride with a slow group, and could do each of those trips on the main battery + a single Range Extender.

If high speed or steep climbing capability is required, it is the Vado. Otherwise, it is Vado SL.

 

[mschwett]

Your experience highlights one of big delusions of the anti Ebike crowd. I average between 14 mph and 16 mph on my usual W&OD routes. There are several sect where I can ride 20-25 mph slower riders and pedestrians allowing. Even at those speeds I’m frequently passed by road bikes going 30 mph or more. Fears about Ebike speeds seem misplaced in these contexts.

99% of road bike riders don't get anywhere near 30mph unless they're going downhill or only for a minute or two. people exaggerate the speeds of other cyclists all the time because of their perception of other riders, or because they're trying to make a point, but it's simply not true.

look at the actual facts. the fastest people out there are on strava, and even a cursory glance at any mostly flat strava segment of reasonable length shows that the VERY fastest riders are averaging <20mph, not 30mph. here's an example : https://www.strava.com/segments/10640979

this is a 10 mile out and back loop. wind effects would be balanced on the out and back. it's almost completely flat. one traffic light to speak of. 1,054 riders have recorded it in the last 10+ years, and the 90th percentile average speed this year is 16.5mph, and all time it's 18mph.

yes, strong riders can ride 25+ mph for a minute or two. but we're talking about a minute or two. this short <1 mile completely flat segment has 14,100 people's best times: https://www.strava.com/segments/432873 the 90th percentile on that one this year is 25mph... and it's a cycle track, often used by time trial riders to practice!

over many many thousands of miles riding at average speeds in the 15-18 range, i get passed, for sure. but not all that often. on flat ground, with no wind, i cruise around 18mph and almost never get passed. seriously. almost never. i get passed going uphill all the time.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

99% of road bike riders don't get anywhere near 30mph unless they're going downhill or only for a minute or two. people exaggerate the speeds of other cyclists all the time because of their perception of other riders, or because they're trying to make a point, but it's simply not true.

look at the actual facts. the fastest people out there are on strava, and even a cursory glance at any mostly flat strava segment of reasonable length shows that the VERY fastest riders are averaging <20mph, not 30mph. here's an example : https://www.strava.com/segments/10640979

While I do totally agree most of road cyclists who do not ride in a peloton achieve the average speed less than 20 mph, they ride at the crusing speed far above 20 mph.

These data from a road cycling workout (a group but not a peloton) I took part in prove your statement about the average speed of <20 mph. However, note the max speed of over 31 mph, and indeed our cruising speed oscillated between 22 and 25 mph. Reference. (I'm sure you can interpret these data!)

While an e-biker can easily exceed the performance of a road cyclist (mostly 70% SPORT with some 100% TURBO). How easily a roadie can be passed against headwind...

 

[2wheelsgood]

Had my appointment yesterday to get the Pathfinder Pro 42s fitted tubeless and they also fettled the bike a bit and sorted the gears for me - bike is transformed.

The new tires suit the bike perfectly, I have them at 40psi and that feels perfect. They will naturally lose some pressure in the next few weeks so I will monitor by how they feel. Gear change is also much better now that it is properly setup. The mechanical crunching has gone and replaced by slick clicks on every change.

This is now the bike that I hoped it would be.

 

[2wheelsgood]

New saddle today. I gave the standard Bridge Sport a few weeks but it really is the wrong shape for my butt. Took a chance on a Power Comp as the stubbier look and shape of it looked as though it might work so I bought online. Fitted this morning and it felt better straight away.

Went for a ride this afternoon and only realised when I was home that I hadn't once thought about the saddle on the return part of the journey - I take this as a very good sign.

Just a rear mudguard and some pedals to purchase next and bike will be complete

 

[BEC111]

While I do totally agree most of road cyclists who do not ride in a peloton achieve the average speed less than 20 mph, they ride at the crusing speed far above 20 mph.

View attachment 178625
These data from a road cycling workout (a group but not a peloton) I took part in prove your statement about the average speed of <20 mph. However, note the max speed of over 31 mph, and indeed our cruising speed oscillated between 22 and 25 mph. Reference. (I'm sure you can interpret these data!)

View attachment 178626
While an e-biker can easily exceed the performance of a road cyclist (mostly 70% SPORT with some 100% TURBO). How easily a roadie can be passed against headwind...

This is my experience as well. To be fair, most rod bi’e riders on the W&OD are not speeding along at very high speeds. I can usually keep up at my cruising speeds, 14-16 mph, and usually can pass them up the long shallow rail trail assents but they then frequently come up next to me on my hybrid style Vado SL, see an old guy casually trucking along (I’m 76) and say, “Is that an e-bike?”

A short discussion about e-bikes and the SL usually follows and then the younger road bike guy, it’s never women, accelerates and is quickly hundreds of yards away.

The really fast folks appear out of no where and zoom. FWIW, the fastest riders are often preparing for the various road races that occur in the Washington DC area. The Armed Forces Cycling Classic prep fills the trail with small peloton of extremely fit young men speeding by practicing racing techniques.

So maybe my perceptions are distorted due to my experience.

 

[Abridged]

I'm not terribly fit and I don't use the Vado 5 SL battery unless there's big hills or the rain comes on and I want to get home faster. Pretty much anyone on a road bike passes me. It was a bit of a shock for what's left of my macho credentials at first but I'm too old to worry about going not very fast on a bike. The Vado SL is a great bike and tremendous fun which for me is really the only important thing.