That didn't sound right, so I just checked and at least here in the US, all Specialized e-bikes are mid-drive and use a Brose motor.
Specialized, Trek or Orbea, which one?
- Thread starter Firnatine
- Start date
It is a rear hub motor. The hub is smaller then the cassette thats why you can't see it in the picture.
You are right, Specialized does not use Mahle motors but at the same time you are wrong about them using a Brose. Specialized SL1.1 motor was designed
and made for all their turbo eBikes. No other eBike uses it since its proprietary for Specialized only. Thanks for all the comments everyone. I'm 95% sure I'll be going with the Specialized Turbo Creo Evo.
Must be a lot of misinformation on the web then. I found several articles stating that Specialized uses motors that are made by Brose.
Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
- Region
- Europe
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- Mazovia, PL
All full power Specialized Turbo e-bikes (that is, Levo, Kenevo, Vado and Como) use Brose motors. All "superlightweight" Turbo e-bikes (Creo SL, Levo SL and Vado SL) use a Mahle motor.
Firnatine: You are right these motors are "Specialized" because Specialized took part in both customizing these motors as well as tuning them to specific purposes:
- Specialized 1.1 is made by Mahle (all SL e-bikes). That motor is made per order of Specialized only and unavailable to any other brand.
- Specialized 1.2e is Brose CB
- Specialized 1.2 is Brose T
- Specialized 1.2s is Brose TF
- Specialized 1.3 is Brose S Alu
- Specialized 2.1 is Brose S Mag
It's about the 2.1 motor. Specialized took care to greatly extend the warranty and fix the issues in new 2.1 motors.
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Is the motor in the SL models a proprietary design that's made for Specialized by Mahle then? Just trying to understand and get educated.
Correct
Specialized worked with mahle to produce the motor used in their sl range. This is in the bike you are looking at.
Specialized also worked with brose to produce their full power motors, hence the confusion from the other people posting
The brose motor developed a reputation as unreliable in the mountain bike world during 2019 , which is a shame because it's a lovely motor. So far, the new SL / mahle motor seems to be very reliable - they put a lot of effort into waterproofing etc
Good review on youtube. At about 5:35 into the video they discuss the new motor.
You'll find a lot of good quality discussions about the motor if you research the levo sl . The ultralight motor has created a lot of interest in the mountain bike world.
I have a Gain and I have been test riding both the Domane + HP and the Creo. If you want longer range and a wide power band the Domane is best. When I was riding it I was pretty sure that I would always use power because of how much it weighs. Both the Orbea and Specialized both ride very well with the motor off. Orba uses the ebikemotion hub and Specialized the proprietary mid drive. Both motors are made by Mahle. The hub motor used by Orbea feels stronger and is spected at 40 nm. The mid drive on the Creo is rated at 35nm and is class 3. It has a larger primary battery. Both have the same battery capacity after adding extender batteries and most likely have similar range. Neither has the power of the Trek. The components on the base carbon Creo are not as good as on the Gain, in fact they seem pretty basic for a $7000 bike. The Gain has Ant+ and connects to Garmin and other computers, this doesn’t seem to be the case with the Creo. I decided to keep riding my Orbea.
Alaskan
Well-Known Member
At 70 now, I have been consistently putting around 7,000 mile per year on my bikes for the past 3 years since I resumed riding after three decades. I have been riding some heavy equipment but as the tech has improved and good light weight ebike have come to market, I have been moving that direction along with the industry trend.
I test rode the Turbo Creo in Carbon and found it gorgeous. I also have a close friend, a former bike racer who is in his fifties, who owns one and loves it. I ride with him frequently. It is an awesome bike but lacking oomph especially in the steep hilly place I live in. My conclusion is that performance compromises were made to avoid the "embarrassment of riding an ebike"
I also rode the new Domane+ HP in the middle version. I liked the look and feel of the bike and the power of the Bosch speed motor. It does have a considerably fatter downtube that gives away it "E" identity. Just because it has more power, you don't have to use it. It is nice to have it in reserve when wanted though, like dashing back for shelter if the weather turns. I was disappointed in the drive train Trek put on this bike as it lacks gear range at both the speedy end and for climbing. At that price point they should be putting their microspline 12 speed with the 10-51 tooth chainring. (which is the one I have on my Trek Allant 9.9+).
What I ended up buying was the Cannondale Topstone Neo Carbon 3, It has the Bosch Speed Motor with the 500 watt battery and weighs in at 39 lbs. They really leaned out the downtube as much as they could and still hold a full 500 watt battery. You have to slowly wiggle it out with the two sides wanting the hold the battery in place and carefully align it putting the battery back in. It also has a really innovative suspension both front and back and gets way better range than my Trek Allant due to its significantly lower weight (14lbs).
www.cannondale.com
Cannondale makes the 2 version with a fixed fork, 2x11 drive train and weighs in at just 36 lbs.
www.cannondale.com
They, like most high end ebikes, are hard to find right now, especially in certain sizes. I have been riding mine for two weeks now and just loving it. I have been doing exhaustive looking recently for my bike and would be glad to share what I found and where, if you decide you want to go that way.
I test rode the Turbo Creo in Carbon and found it gorgeous. I also have a close friend, a former bike racer who is in his fifties, who owns one and loves it. I ride with him frequently. It is an awesome bike but lacking oomph especially in the steep hilly place I live in. My conclusion is that performance compromises were made to avoid the "embarrassment of riding an ebike"
I also rode the new Domane+ HP in the middle version. I liked the look and feel of the bike and the power of the Bosch speed motor. It does have a considerably fatter downtube that gives away it "E" identity. Just because it has more power, you don't have to use it. It is nice to have it in reserve when wanted though, like dashing back for shelter if the weather turns. I was disappointed in the drive train Trek put on this bike as it lacks gear range at both the speedy end and for climbing. At that price point they should be putting their microspline 12 speed with the 10-51 tooth chainring. (which is the one I have on my Trek Allant 9.9+).
What I ended up buying was the Cannondale Topstone Neo Carbon 3, It has the Bosch Speed Motor with the 500 watt battery and weighs in at 39 lbs. They really leaned out the downtube as much as they could and still hold a full 500 watt battery. You have to slowly wiggle it out with the two sides wanting the hold the battery in place and carefully align it putting the battery back in. It also has a really innovative suspension both front and back and gets way better range than my Trek Allant due to its significantly lower weight (14lbs).
Topstone Neo Carbon Lefty 3
An e-gravel bike with full suspension and true horsepower. The most capable, fun loving gravel bike ever made goes full power. Anything’s possible.
www.cannondale.com
Cannondale makes the 2 version with a fixed fork, 2x11 drive train and weighs in at just 36 lbs.
* PDP
www.cannondale.com
They, like most high end ebikes, are hard to find right now, especially in certain sizes. I have been riding mine for two weeks now and just loving it. I have been doing exhaustive looking recently for my bike and would be glad to share what I found and where, if you decide you want to go that way.
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WattsUpDude
Well-Known Member
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- San Francisco, Bay Area
I previously had an Orbea Gain and I agree with all your points. It was fantastic as a bike but it wasn’t a fantastic eBike.
Captain Slow
Well-Known Member
Can you give us an idea of how far you're riding each day, the elevation gain and the speed? I like my Creo, but it just doesn't have the power of the Domane HP+. If you're doing an average of say 28 km/hr. or slower and say 100 km's a day then the Creo will likely be ok. But if the group is going to be doing say 33 km/hr. then I'm not sure the Creo battery will be enough. I think the Domane HP+ can be had in a dual battery configuration if that's what you need.
I guess it also depends upon how much power you're supplying. When you ride your Santa Cruz do you know what your FTP is and your watts/kg? What about the group in general? That would help understand how much power you need to keep up with the group. If the difference is small then the Creo will likely be fine, but the bigger that gap the more likely you'll want the Domane HP+.
I guess it also depends upon how much power you're supplying. When you ride your Santa Cruz do you know what your FTP is and your watts/kg? What about the group in general? That would help understand how much power you need to keep up with the group. If the difference is small then the Creo will likely be fine, but the bigger that gap the more likely you'll want the Domane HP+.
Good to know about the connectivity, the Specialized dealer said it did not connect, but he was not very knowledgeable about the bike. I ride mostly with the bike off and only use it occasionally, might explain our different impressions.
I've read quite a few reviews on the Gain and other bikes that use the Ebikemotion X345 rear hub drive, and they are all very positive about the amount of assist in hilly terrain being quite adequate. So I suppose some people are just looking for way more assist than others are.
Captain Slow
Well-Known Member
Suppose it also depends on where you live. If I lived in San Francisco I'm sure I'd want a pretty powerful motor.
Alaskan
Well-Known Member
That is always the case around here. We are folks of various ages, various fitness levels and a wide range of cycling experience, some are capable bike mechanics while other have all work and adjustments done at an LBS.
That is why it is always good to begin an inquiring post with a brief statement as where where you fall in the continuum and also do so when you answer a question. That way each party can assess the relevance of the answer for their circumstances.
Interestingly enough one of the reviews I read was from a bike shop in the bay area that they tested in the San Francisco area.
WattsUpDude
Well-Known Member
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- USA
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- San Francisco, Bay Area
It’s good for what it is. The PAS is very good for a cadence sensor. The power is also decent for the wattage and battery size. Having said that, it’ll never match the predictability, responsiveness and natural feel of a torque sensor based PAS. And I do live and ride around the SF Bay Area. Launching from a standstill while going uphill is one of the many scenarios that a middrive, torque sensor based PAS can never be substituted. On a cadence sensor PAS, you always have that momentary delay where the motor needs to catch up and kick in. It’s not well suited for us hill riders.
WattsUpDude
Well-Known Member
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- USA
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- San Francisco, Bay Area
They’re trying to sell a product that they carry.
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