specialized creo 2

Specialized seems to measure stack height the vertical distance between the bottom bracket and the point on the future shock that the stem sits, without spacers, which would go below the future shock. This is the minimum stack height measurement, equivalent to the stack of a non-futureshock bike with the stem seated right on top of the head tube.
Just to clarify, does this mean that the true stack height should be from the center of BB to the top of the top tube at the junction of top tube and the black plastic headset cover piece? This is where I measured my old Diverge to agree with stack spec on that one. In addition, for 58cm frame on the Creo, they show a top tube length of 590mm measured from top of head tube level to center of seat post.. If you consider the "higher" stack height of 638mm, and the forward reach of 401mm, and calculate the rearward reach to center of seat post (638/tan(16.5deg)) = 189mm), and add 401 and 189 together, you get exactly 590 which is the "lower" top tube length shown to be about 3" lower. I know this is getting really detailed, but for my adjusted saddle height of 30", this is a difference of 3" of handlebar height. Since the angle of the seat tube is more vertical and the head tube is more "laid out", the distance between the two decreases as height goes up, so if their drawing were correct, the combined reach forward and back should add up to 4mm shorter...
 
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Just to clarify, does this mean that the true stack height should be from the center of BB to the top of the top tube at the junction of top tube and the black plastic headset cover piece? This is where I measured my old Diverge to agree with stack spec on that one. In addition, for 58cm frame on the Creo, they show a top tube length of 590mm measured from top of head tube level to center of seat post.. If you consider the "higher" stack height of 638mm, and the forward reach of 401mm, and calculate the rearward reach to center of seat post (638/tan(16.5deg)) = 189mm), and add 401 and 189 together, you get exactly 590 which is the "lower" top tube length shown to be about 3" lower. I know this is getting really detailed, but for my adjusted saddle height of 30", this is a difference of 3" of handlebar height. Since the angle of the seat tube is more vertical and the head tube is more "laid out", the distance between the two decreases as height goes up, so if their drawing were correct, the combined reach forward and back should add up to 4mm shorter...

Just to clarify, does this mean that the true stack height should be from the center of BB to the top of the top tube at the junction of top tube and the black plastic headset cover piece? This is where I measured my old Diverge to agree with stack spec on that one. In addition, for 58cm frame on the Creo, they show a top tube length of 590mm measured from top of head tube level to center of seat post.. If you consider the "higher" stack height of 638mm, and the forward reach of 401mm, and calculate the rearward reach to center of seat post (638/tan(16.5deg)) = 189mm), and add 401 and 189 together, you get exactly 590 which is the "lower" top tube length shown to be about 3" lower. I know this is getting really detailed, but for my adjusted saddle height of 30", this is a difference of 3" of handlebar height. Since the angle of the seat tube is more vertical and the head tube is more "laid out", the distance between the two decreases as height goes up, so if their drawing were correct, the combined reach forward and back should add up to 4mm shorter...
Here’s what I did to estimate the way specialized measures their stack height:
My 2021 XXL Creo specs say the bottom bracket height is 269.5mm, Stack 675, Reach 399, Horiz top tube 605. Adding the bottom bracket height to the stack gives about 945mm which is just over 37 3/16 in., floor to “stack height point”. My bike has three 5mm spacers that sit on top of the headset cover (duckbill) that raise the future shock up by 15mm. You can see in the photo that if you remove the 15mm of spacers (just over 9/16 in.), the future shock cartridge will sit 9/16 in lower and bring the stem down with it to sit at about 37 3/16 in. So I think Specialized includes the headset cap and the point on the future shock that a stem rests on (without any spacers) In their stack height measurement.

Just to check other measurements, I measured from that 37 3/16 point on the headset to the center of the seat post (horizontally) and got about 23 5/8 in. (600 mm), which is pretty close to the 605 spec.
 

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Just to clarify, does this mean that the true stack height should be from the center of BB to the top of the top tube at the junction of top tube and the black plastic headset cover piece? This is where I measured my old Diverge to agree with stack spec on that one. In addition, for 58cm frame on the Creo, they show a top tube length of 590mm measured from top of head tube level to center of seat post.. If you consider the "higher" stack height of 638mm, and the forward reach of 401mm, and calculate the rearward reach to center of seat post (638/tan(16.5deg)) = 189mm), and add 401 and 189 together, you get exactly 590 which is the "lower" top tube length shown to be about 3" lower. I know this is getting really detailed, but for my adjusted saddle height of 30", this is a difference of 3" of handlebar height. Since the angle of the seat tube is more vertical and the head tube is more "laid out", the distance between the two decreases as height goes up, so if their drawing were correct, the combined reach forward and back should add up to 4mm shorter...
Are you performing this size assessment because you don't have access to a store where you can test ride the actual bike? Are you almost always in-between sizes?
 
Thank you. Ok, I just did the same and with inflated tires and verifying BB height, my 58cm 2018 Diverge specs were 265 mm floor to center of BB and 624 mm from center of BB for stack height. That's 889 mm, or 35". That's right in the middle of that first 5mm spacer above the duck bill. Seems Specialized isn't consistent with their definition of (or measurement of) 'stack'. I got in touch with Specialized, got an email back, added details, and replied. They're forwarding to the Creo team. I'll write back with their response.
 

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Thank you. Ok, I just did the same and with inflated tires and verifying BB height, my 58cm 2018 Diverge specs were 265 mm floor to center of BB and 624 mm from center of BB for stack height. That's 889 mm, or 35". That's right in the middle of that first 5mm spacer above the duck bill. Seems Specialized isn't consistent with their definition of (or measurement of) 'stack'. I got in touch with Specialized, got an email back, added details, and replied. They're forwarding to the Creo team. I'll write back with their response.
Yikes, that's frustrating. My local Specialized had very little interest in discussing sizing, geometry, etc, or working with me on fit. Kinda annoying when spending so much on bicycles!
 
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Yep, I agree. I'm at the point with so many miles (and years) on bikes, that I need to get more upright with it being level from top of saddle to top of bars. The fact that Specialized seems to have different measurement types for an industry "stack" is frustrating.
 
First, an apology. I got the wrong stack spec for my 2018 Diverge from the Specialized technical guy on the phone. Turns out that my 2018 Diverge Expert gravel bike's stack spec for 58mm is within 1mm of the Creo 2 spec for same frame size. So, I verified the BB height and remeasured. BB height of 265 mm (270 for Creo) plus stack spec of 639mm (638 for Creo 2) takes me to the top of the third spacer. I recall they're 5mm each. I had added a Salsa stem back in 2018 which was 90mm with a 65/115 angle (depending on mounting it to rise or fall). That gave me an additional 5 inches to the top of the stem. Level with my saddle.
I ordered the Creo 2 from Bangtail Bikes in Bozeman, and they were all over the specs--knew everything about the specs. Finally! Looks like my bike will be available for pickup in late summer. They must be very popular. They told me that the production quantities would likely be higher for the dark blue than mustard color, with the blue available sooner...
 
Late last week I took delivery of an S-Works Creo 2 in size 56. I'm still getting it dialed in, with the help of our awesome local Specialized-owned dealer (Biker's Edge here in CT.) I'll do a full/proper review after a few more weeks of riding, but thought I'd drop a few initial impressions here -

First, for context, I currently own and regularly ride a Vado 5.0 IGH, temporarily owned a Vado 5 SL for a few weeks (before returning it), and have test-ridden many other e-bikes over the past few years. Otherwise my acoustic bike experience is decades old at this point ;-)

So - after just a few dozen miles on the s-works creo 2 over the last few days, first impressions: this is easily the most amazing bike I have ever personally ridden. Which, of course it should be, at over $15k with accessories! Straight from the store, I was a bit underwhelmed - the ride felt harsh, the derailleur was making strange noises under load, the tires felt soggy, the seat was uncomfortable, and my riding position/comfort was off. Here's what it took to get that all sorted:
  • Swapped OEM seat for s-works power with mirror (my personal favorite saddle)
  • Disassembled, re-greased, re-assembled, and re-calibrated the entire groupset
  • Installed 3 supplied spacers to increase stack height by 15mm
  • Replaced OEM dropper post with a roval terra carbon seatpost with 20mm setback
  • Converted tires to tubeless
  • Installed shimano pd-eh500 pedals
After these adjustments, I am very happy to report that I now feel like I'm getting my money's worth (which is really saying something, given the eye-watering price tag!) Of all the changes listed above, I think the seatpost replacement easily had the most impact. Specialized's decision to install a heavy, stiff/uncomfortable, nearly-useless (drop range) seatpost on this otherwise insanely nice carbon bike is just baffling to me. It's just laughably bad, a ridiculously overweight piece of hardware on an otherwise top-spec, superlight machine. I haven't weighed it yet, but I'd guess that replacing the seatpost easily shed a pound, maybe even two - and the roval carbon is SO much more comfortable, while still maintaining that "crisp-but-compliant" carbon feel that matches the bike perfectly.

Ok - so after these adjustments I was finally able to get a few "this feels right now" rides in today and I'm happy to report: this bike is so, so, so good. Like, it's almost hard to describe how good it is. It is an incredibly smooth, supple, and FAST ride. The closest I've ever come to feeling like a bike just disappears underneath me. Half of my rides today were power OFF and astonishingly (for me at least), I still felt like I was one with the wind - this bike wants to GO. I also really love the more relaxed geometry, personally. My back/neck won't let me ever become a super-aero speed demon anyway, so for me the gravel-inspired geometry (together with the electric assist!) is the perfect compromise between something even more upright (i.e. Vado SL) vs a pure acoustic road bike (i.e. Tarmac).

Regarding the 1.2 motor: Riding in eco (currently set to 35/35) feels like MORE than enough assist on this bike. By way of comparison, during my previous rides on an SL 1.1 motor (Vado SL 5.0) I felt like eco/35/35 was just barely enough to compensate for the weight of the bike, and I only started feeling the "benefit" of assistance (that "wind at my back" feeling) when I set power to sport (50/50) or above. With this new 1.2 motor, a setting of eco/35/35 feels equivalent to what sport/50/50+ felt like on the 1.1 motor (with the obvious caveat that the Vado SL 5.0 was probably ~5 pounds heavier than my current creo 2 setup.)

I have yet to do any range tests/calculations, but my guess is that @Stefan Mikes' assertions are correct: IF you dial the assist level on this bike to output similar wattage (equivalent to a lower assist level on this bike vs the SL 1.1 motor), then range will be the same - otherwise I'd assume that range will be reduced compared to the creo 1 at the same settings (although you'll go faster!) There's no magic here - watts are watts after all :) Still, I really like this setup - it means that I can get the same efficiency when I want to use an even lower assist, but then I also have even more power on demand if/when I decide I need it (to catch up to the group, tackle a hill, etc.) In default sport mode on this bike, I quickly reach 28mph on the flats. Turbo is insane, way overpowered for anything other than a super steep incline (and actually I just realized I still have my turbo set to 80/80... I haven't even tried 100/100 yet 😅)

Oh, also, the motor is extremely quiet. It's basically imperceptible to my ears most of the time, with a very soft whir that I can only really hear when going up-hill, slow, with full assist. It is equivalent or maybe even quieter than the 2.2 motor on the Vado 5, and definitely a LOT quieter than the 1.1 motor at all speeds.

That's it for now. I'll report back after a few hundred more miles! Also of course please feel free to hit me up with any questions and I'll do my best to answer. Next big milestone for me is achieving my first century, which I'm planning with some family and friends at next year's Marin Century ride in CA. Hoping this bike can help me get it done!

Best,
Paul
 
Wow. I'm getting the poor man's one at $6500. The bike shop said the were waiting for the Governor and his wife to pick up theirs. But when I tried to convince them that I was more important than the gov, my plea didn't stick. I'll be getting mine late summer....
 
I ordered the Creo 2 from Bangtail Bikes in Bozeman, and they were all over the specs--knew everything about the specs. Finally! Looks like my bike will be available for pickup in late summer. They must be very popular. They told me that the production quantities would likely be higher for the dark blue than mustard color, with the blue available sooner...
I will post pics soon, but I love the gold color in person. There was talk about it being the lesser colorway or resale could be lower, but I don't see it. The color is great!
Wow. I'm getting the poor man's one at $6500. The bike shop said the were waiting for the Governor and his wife to pick up theirs. But when I tried to convince them that I was more important than the gov, my plea didn't stick. I'll be getting mine late summer....
TBH, the difference between my expert Diverge and comp Creo is less than I expected. Braking and shifting feels the same. It's not as slow unpowered as I expected. The main difference is it's clearly a stiffer bike so if the terrain is rough I'd opt for the Diverge. The stem is also 100 cm for my size, versus 90 and 80 might be ideal according to my bike fit. Both are tubeless which is a must imo. Will probably add the carbon wheels before long, and am considering swapping the dropper for a more comfortable post or the reverb. I really like the dropper! It's just a little too... probing.. over bumps. The Diverge carbon post isn't amazing, but it will at least spring your butt into the air rather than sucker punch you.

If the Expert had a colorway that I liked better, I would have ordered it. Even had a chance to get a discount on one. Seems like they could upsell a lot of people with more interesting color choices..
 
If the Expert had a colorway that I liked better, I would have ordered it. Even had a chance to get a discount on one. Seems like they could upsell a lot of people with more interesting color choices..
It is even more to that. I fancied I had earned a lot and could buy me an S-Works. In that dull colour?! No way.
 
Wow. I'm getting the poor man's one at $6500. The bike shop said the were waiting for the Governor and his wife to pick up theirs. But when I tried to convince them that I was more important than the gov, my plea didn't stick. I'll be getting mine late summer....
I feel like they managed to produce ten of these bikes per country! it's painful stuff. Late summer northern hemisphere?!!!!
 
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