specialized creo 2

[WildPaul]

Late last week I took delivery of an S-Works Creo 2 in size 56. I'm still getting it dialed in, with the help of our awesome local Specialized-owned dealer (Biker's Edge here in CT.) I'll do a full/proper review after a few more weeks of riding, but thought I'd drop a few initial impressions here -

First, for context, I currently own and regularly ride a Vado 5.0 IGH, temporarily owned a Vado 5 SL for a few weeks (before returning it), and have test-ridden many other e-bikes over the past few years. Otherwise my acoustic bike experience is decades old at this point ;-)

So - after just a few dozen miles on the s-works creo 2 over the last few days, first impressions: this is easily the most amazing bike I have ever personally ridden. Which, of course it should be, at over $15k with accessories! Straight from the store, I was a bit underwhelmed - the ride felt harsh, the derailleur was making strange noises under load, the tires felt soggy, the seat was uncomfortable, and my riding position/comfort was off. Here's what it took to get that all sorted:

• Swapped OEM seat for s-works power with mirror (my personal favorite saddle)
• Disassembled, re-greased, re-assembled, and re-calibrated the entire groupset
• Installed 3 supplied spacers to increase stack height by 15mm
• Replaced OEM dropper post with a roval terra carbon seatpost with 20mm setback
• Converted tires to tubeless
• Installed shimano pd-eh500 pedals

After these adjustments, I am very happy to report that I now feel like I'm getting my money's worth (which is really saying something, given the eye-watering price tag!) Of all the changes listed above, I think the seatpost replacement easily had the most impact. Specialized's decision to install a heavy, stiff/uncomfortable, nearly-useless (drop range) seatpost on this otherwise insanely nice carbon bike is just baffling to me. It's just laughably bad, a ridiculously overweight piece of hardware on an otherwise top-spec, superlight machine. I haven't weighed it yet, but I'd guess that replacing the seatpost easily shed a pound, maybe even two - and the roval carbon is SO much more comfortable, while still maintaining that "crisp-but-compliant" carbon feel that matches the bike perfectly.

Ok - so after these adjustments I was finally able to get a few "this feels right now" rides in today and I'm happy to report: this bike is so, so, so good. Like, it's almost hard to describe how good it is. It is an incredibly smooth, supple, and FAST ride. The closest I've ever come to feeling like a bike just disappears underneath me. Half of my rides today were power OFF and astonishingly (for me at least), I still felt like I was one with the wind - this bike wants to GO. I also really love the more relaxed geometry, personally. My back/neck won't let me ever become a super-aero speed demon anyway, so for me the gravel-inspired geometry (together with the electric assist!) is the perfect compromise between something even more upright (i.e. Vado SL) vs a pure acoustic road bike (i.e. Tarmac).

Regarding the 1.2 motor: Riding in eco (currently set to 35/35) feels like MORE than enough assist on this bike. By way of comparison, during my previous rides on an SL 1.1 motor (Vado SL 5.0) I felt like eco/35/35 was just barely enough to compensate for the weight of the bike, and I only started feeling the "benefit" of assistance (that "wind at my back" feeling) when I set power to sport (50/50) or above. With this new 1.2 motor, a setting of eco/35/35 feels equivalent to what sport/50/50+ felt like on the 1.1 motor (with the obvious caveat that the Vado SL 5.0 was probably ~5 pounds heavier than my current creo 2 setup.)

I have yet to do any range tests/calculations, but my guess is that @Stefan Mikes' assertions are correct: IF you dial the assist level on this bike to output similar wattage (equivalent to a lower assist level on this bike vs the SL 1.1 motor), then range will be the same - otherwise I'd assume that range will be reduced compared to the creo 1 at the same settings (although you'll go faster!) There's no magic here - watts are watts after all Still, I really like this setup - it means that I can get the same efficiency when I want to use an even lower assist, but then I also have even more power on demand if/when I decide I need it (to catch up to the group, tackle a hill, etc.) In default sport mode on this bike, I quickly reach 28mph on the flats. Turbo is insane, way overpowered for anything other than a super steep incline (and actually I just realized I still have my turbo set to 80/80... I haven't even tried 100/100 yet )

Oh, also, the motor is extremely quiet. It's basically imperceptible to my ears most of the time, with a very soft whir that I can only really hear when going up-hill, slow, with full assist. It is equivalent or maybe even quieter than the 2.2 motor on the Vado 5, and definitely a LOT quieter than the 1.1 motor at all speeds.

That's it for now. I'll report back after a few hundred more miles! Also of course please feel free to hit me up with any questions and I'll do my best to answer. Next big milestone for me is achieving my first century, which I'm planning with some family and friends at next year's Marin Century ride in CA. Hoping this bike can help me get it done!

Best,
Paul

 

[mschwett]

Late last week I took delivery of an S-Works Creo 2 in size 56. I'm still getting it dialed in, with the help of our awesome local Specialized-owned dealer (Biker's Edge here in CT.) I'll do a full/proper review after a few more weeks of riding, but thought I'd drop a few initial impressions here -

First, for context, I currently own and regularly ride a Vado 5.0 IGH, temporarily owned a Vado 5 SL for a few weeks (before returning it), and have test-ridden many other e-bikes over the past few years. Otherwise my acoustic bike experience is decades old at this point ;-)

So - after just a few dozen miles on the s-works creo 2 over the last few days - this is easily the most incredible bike I've ever personally ridden. Which, of course it should be, at over $15k with accessories! Straight from the store, I was a bit underwhelmed - the ride felt harsh, the derailleur was making strange noises under load, the tires felt soggy, the seat was uncomfortable, and my riding position/comfort was off. Here's what it took to get that all sorted:

• Swapped OEM seat for s-works power with mirror (my personal favorite saddle)
• Disassembled, re-greased, re-assembled, and re-calibrated the entire groupset
• Installed 3 supplied spacers to increase stack height by 15mm
• Replaced OEM dropper post with a roval terra carbon seatpost with 20mm setback
• Converted tires to tubeless
• Installed shimano pd-eh500 pedals

After these adjustments, I am very happy to report that I now feel like I'm getting my money's worth (which is really saying something, given the eye-watering price tag!) Of all the changes listed above, I think the seatpost replacement easily had the most impact. Specialized's decision to install a heavy, stiff/uncomfortable, nearly-useless (drop range) seatpost on this otherwise insanely nice carbon bike is just baffling to me. It's just laughably bad, a ridiculously overweight piece of hardware on an otherwise top-spec, superlight machine. I haven't weighed it yet, but I'd guess that replacing the seatpost easily shed a pound, maybe even two - and the roval carbon is SO much more comfortable, while still maintaining that "crisp" carbon feel that matches the bike perfectly.

Ok - so after these adjustments I was finally able to get a few "this feels right now" rides in today and I'm happy to report: this bike is so, so, so good. Like, it's almost hard to describe how good it is. It is an incredibly smooth, supple, and FAST ride. The closest I've ever come to feeling like a bike just disappears underneath me. Half of my rides today were power OFF and astonishingly (for me at least), I still felt like I was one with the wind - this bike wants to GO. I also really love the more relaxed geometry, personally. My back/neck won't let me ever become a super-aero speed demon anyway, so for me the gravel-inspired geometry (together with the electric assist!) is the perfect compromise between something even more upright (i.e. Vado SL) vs a pure acoustic road bike (i.e. Tarmac).

Regarding the 1.2 motor: Riding in eco (currently set to 35/35) feels like MORE than enough assist on this bike. By way of comparison, during my previous rides on an SL 1.1 motor (Vado SL 5.0) I felt like eco/35/35 was just barely enough to compensate for the weight of the bike, and I only started feeling the "benefit" of assistance (that "wind at my back" feeling) when I set power to sport (50/50) or above. With this new 1.2 motor, a setting of eco/35/35 feels equivalent to what sport/50/50+ felt like on the 1.1 motor (with the obvious caveat that the Vado SL 5.0 was probably ~5 pounds heavier than my current creo 2 setup.)

I have yet to do any range tests/calculations, but my guess is that @Stefan Mikes' assertions are correct: IF you dial the assist level on this bike to output similar wattage (equivalent to a lower assist level on this bike vs the SL 1.1 motor), then range will be the same - otherwise I'd assume that range will be reduced compared to the creo 1 at the same settings (although you'll go faster!) There's no magic here - watts are watts after all Still, I really like this setup - it means that I can get the same efficiency when I want to use an even lower assist, but then I also have even more power on demand if/when I decide I need it (to catch up to the group, tackle a hill, etc.) In default sport mode on this bike, I quickly reach 28mph on the flats. Turbo is insane, way overpowered for anything other than a super steep incline (and actually I just realized I still have my turbo set to 80/80... I haven't even tried 100/100 yet )

That's it for now. I'll report back after a few hundred more miles! Also of course please feel free to hit me up with any questions and I'll do my best to answer. Next big milestone for me is achieving my first century, which I'm planning with some family and friends at next year's Marin Century ride in CA. Hoping this bike can help me get it done!

Best,
Paul

nice report! excellent move on getting rid of the useless, heavy dropper post! i have the roval alpinist post and the s works romin with mirror on both my bikes. the shape was a little better for me than the power, which I liked as well.

post pictures!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Congratulation, Paul! A nice report indeed!
Just to correct: @mschwett is saying the same about the wattage of the motor as I do

 

[Stefan Mikes]

With a record like that, this Mahle company sounds very dodgy! Somebody should warn Orbea. Thank God Spesh have nothing to do with them and developed their own unique Mahle SL lightweight motor- wait what?

Please read the Mahle X20 thread on the EBR Forum. Torque sensing that actually doesn't work, many other issues, especially related to the Mahle electronics. Then, have you ever tried a hub-drive motor on a long and steep climb? Try it. Especially with the low power motor. The only excuse for using X35 and X20 motors is their low weight and relatively easy design for road bikes using these motors.

Mahle has developed mid-drive SL motors exclusively for Specialized. It was Specialized to R&D, design, and produce the electronics, firmware, app, and batteries, consistent for road, gravel, Trail e-MTB, All Mountain e-MTB, fitness e-bike and city e-bike. One system for all types of lightweight e-bikes. The system other brands simply cannot have, so the attempts to embrace Fazua or TQ or Shimano EP8 RS or Bosch SX systems.

Specialized also has a deal with Brose for the full power motors. Specialized owns the electronics, system, firmware, app, and batteries. That's why your average "Brose" e-bike is not and will never be a Specialized full power e-bike.

Mission Control and now Specialized companion app serve the whole range of so-called Turbo e-bikes.

Poor Orbea...
------------
That's why the Globe Haul is the embarassment in the family

 

[Dazmanturbo]

Both the Creo and the Creo 2 serve a specific part of the market. I loved the original Creo for the fact I could use it as a road bike (on some of the terrible UK backroads!!) and it offered level of comfort with the futureshock and I swapped to Ergon CF3 seatpost, that no other bike could match. Yes some would argue add a Redshift to some bikes, but out the box with a few adjustment, it was an awesome comfy bike. Yes the Creo 2 does seem to be me gravel orientated, but if I do get one, this will not stop me using it on the road. Like Wild Paul, the first thing to got is the dropper as this adds no comfort and not something I would ever use.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Like Wild Paul, the first thing to got is the dropper as this adds no comfort and not something I would ever use.

I have found the dropper extremely useful during technical segments involving steep descents (such as riding off a river embankment or elsewhere) and for riding in the sand or other tricky surface. In the first case, you know the OTB is near; dropping the seat-post allows moving your butt above the rear wheel, making the descent safe. In the second situation, you ride on the dropped seat having a chance to support yourself with a foot or both feet on the ground.

I think neither of you, Paul or Dazman ever ride technically?

 

[gpburdell]

I have found the dropper extremely useful during technical segments involving steep descents (such as riding off a river embankment or elsewhere) and for riding in the sand or other tricky surface. In the first case, you know the OTB is near; dropping the seat-post allows moving your butt above the rear wheel, making the descent safe. In the second situation, you ride on the dropped seat having a chance to support yourself with a foot or both feet on the ground.

I think neither of you, Paul or Dazman ever ride technically?

I can see how a 150mm travel dropper post would be useful in technical riding.

Not so sure how a 50mm travel dropper post - less than 2 inches - would make an appreciable impact.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I can see how a 150mm travel dropper post would be useful in technical riding.

Not so sure how a 50mm travel dropper post - less than 2 inches - would make an appreciable impact.

Try a technical ride with the 50 mm droppper on a gravel bike and you will understand. It is not an MTB. It is a gravel bike. All you need is to be able to move the seat so it does not impede your butt movement, and to ride in a lower position if needed. It is not a dropper post that you could slide down and wait for the light change at the intersection either.

It is the gravel bike geometry itself that prevents installing a long travel dropper post.

P.S. I rode a Diverge EVO on a technical singletrack and appreciated the 50 mm travel dropper very much.

 

[Dazmanturbo]

I have found the dropper extremely useful during technical segments involving steep descents (such as riding off a river embankment or elsewhere) and for riding in the sand or other tricky surface. In the first case, you know the OTB is near; dropping the seat-post allows moving your butt above the rear wheel, making the descent safe. In the second situation, you ride on the dropped seat having a chance to support yourself with a foot or both feet on the ground.

I think neither of you, Paul or Dazman ever ride technically?

You are right Stefan. I ride mainly road with a bit of gravel on occasions. For riding where I need a dropper, I have my MTB for that. My Creo is primarily a comfy distance road bike

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I really regret I will not but a Creo 2 as now my priority is finishing the next year gravel marathon on a pedal bike. Otherwise, this beautiful e-bike checks all the boxes! Honestly, I was not happy riding a Creo 1 with the 25 km/h limiter on road... I guess roadies laughed at me! While a Creo 2 would be fast enough off-road with all necessary bells & whistles, and when it comes to the road... (don't tell anyone: there are derestrictor chips!) The point about fast road riding is you either are able to ride unpowered on a pedal bike and just need a little bit of boost, or you need several Range Extenders, which defeats the whole purpose of a lightweight gravel e-bike.

Just saying.

OTOH, I recently was on a gravel ride together with a greybeard who struggled on his pedal gravel bike at 15-16 km/h. He is a target buyer of a Creo 2!

 

[MikeDee]

Please read the Mahle X20 thread on the EBR Forum. Torque sensing that actually doesn't work, many other issues, especially related to the Mahle electronics. Then, have you ever tried a hub-drive motor on a long and steep climb? Try it. Especially with the low power motor. The only excuse for using X35 and X20 motors is their low weight and relatively easy design for road bikes using these motors.

There are advantages and disadvantages to both hub and bottom bracket drive motors. There's a mountain ride I do that is a 12 mile climb, 3800', average gradient 5.5% with a 15% short segment right at the end. I have a Gain with the X35 system. It climbs just fine except for the last segment. Even in the max power setting that last segment is hard and my speed is down to 5 mph. I'd love to try a V1 Creo on this climb and see how it compares.

 

[WildPaul]

I have found the dropper extremely useful during technical segments involving steep descents (such as riding off a river embankment or elsewhere) and for riding in the sand or other tricky surface. In the first case, you know the OTB is near; dropping the seat-post allows moving your butt above the rear wheel, making the descent safe. In the second situation, you ride on the dropped seat having a chance to support yourself with a foot or both feet on the ground.

I think neither of you, Paul or Dazman ever ride technically?

That is correct, I do not currently ride in/on those conditions.

 

[WildPaul]

Yes the Creo 2 does seem to be me gravel orientated, but if I do get one, this will not stop me using it on the road.

FWIW, my riding is actually 90%+ roads during most of the year (based in Dallas), and then a road/gravel mix in the summers (based in CT.)

From what I can tell so far (still very new on the bike), the Creo 2 is absolutely brilliant on the road - even (or especially??) with the Tracer 47 tires on it! This initially surprised me, but from what I'm reading the Tracers actually score well as fast-rolling tires on asphalt, despite looking like they're primarily meant for off-road use. I also recall hearing somewhere recently that using wider tires tubeless, with somewhat higher PSIs, is a more common configuration even for roadies these days...? As mentioned above, I'm not nor have ever been a series road biker, so maybe I don't actually know what I'm missing - but so far my experience with the Creo 2 is that even unpowered, it feels extremely quick on the road with the default Tracer 47s in tubeless (tubed, on the other hand, these tires initially felt mushier to me for some reason.)

Specialized is obviously positioning this bike to appeal to gravel riders, but for me at least, most of the Creo 2 changes (more relaxed geo, super comfy/compliant ride once I swapped to a carbon seatpost, and more power on tap when it's needed) just make it an even better bike on the road as well (which is what I was hoping when I bought it - and very happy is turning out to be true.) I suppose I might feel differently if I was a dedicated road speed demon and every watt of efficiency mattered, but that's definitely not me. For me, using a bit of the battery to offset those efficiency losses (such a somewhat less aero position), leading to an overall more comfortable ride, is exactly what I was looking for.

Paul

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I also recall hearing somewhere recently that using wider tires tubeless, with somewhat higher PSIs, is a more common configuration even for roadies these days...?

No slightest idea what roadies do but in gravel cycling tubeless allows you further reducing the inflation pressure of the wheels for even more compliant rides

 

[WildPaul]

Photos from today’s ride on the creo 2. Can you tell from the look on my face how much I’m loving it??

 

[AvalancheRun]

Man that thing looks awesome! Specialized is killing it with their ebike designs.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Ah, Paul! I can fully understand your joy! Ride on!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Paul, had I just the Creo 2 Comp, my gravel cycling buddies would turn dark green from jealousy I cannot stop watching your pictures!

 

[WildPaul]

Paul, had I just the Creo 2 Comp, my gravel cycling buddies would turn dark green from jealousy I cannot stop watching your pictures!

I’m a long time Stefan-fan on these forums. So many of your posts and insights over the past months contributed to my decision to buy this bike. If just a little bit of that infectious enthusiasm can now find it’s way back from me to you, then I’m a happy man

Also… I’ll happily be the devil on your shoulder (in your wallet?)… “Life is short, Stefan!!! Dooooooo iiiiiiiit, Stefan!!!”

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Also… I’ll happily be the devil on your shoulder (in your wallet?)… “Life is short, Stefan!!! Dooooooo iiiiiiiit, Stefan!!!”

Certainly not the S-Works, Paul!
I'm teasing a friend to get a Creo 2 Comp He is ready to spend 24 k of monetary units for a Diverge, why not 28 k for a Creo 2 Comp? He's not getting any younger!
I have shown your happy face to him