Sondors Fact Finding. Due Diligence. Scrutiny.

[FTC Complaint]

Basically, we knew the "charge time," "charger amperage," "range," and ... other advertising claims were materially false. Storm is NOW selling some of these changes as "design upgrades" when in fact they were obvious to anyone with knowledge about this product from the get-go.

What is interesting now is that production might be complete before the next court date, so some of the risks are being shifted from the consumer to Agency 2.0!

The costs of false claims, omissions in testing, skirting regulatory compliance, omitting warranty, not having post sales support, destructive testing the battery assembly, HAZMAT testing on the battery, skirting the CPSC process, not having the depth to recall the product, skirting import process are still borne by the consumer.

Is bad business illegal? No, it is just bad business. Or when push comes to shove, would a court call any of this conduct fraud?

 

[EULITTLB]

Thank you trev for the warm welcome back, I have had my ears pierced and am now in touch with my feminine side (Bruce Jenner/Caitlyn springs to mind - I now want to be known as Jessica). I find it remarkable that finders are not deserting in droves - they could well be - at least my primary concerns have been borne out, not that there was ever any doubt in my mind.

 

[Credible Hulk]

I find it remarkable that finders are not deserting in droves - they could well be.

Finders (funders?) are trying to desert in droves. The fact that Ivars and company are stonewalling and ignoring their refund requests puts a damper on the desertions.

This latest update is a perfect example of Ivars' pattern of deliberate deception and fraud. He makes a big announcement about the "upgraded" Samsung cells to deflect attention from the downgraded charger and false promise re charging time. If Ivars had a shred of integrity he'd be advising customers of both positive and negative changes. Other campaigns seem to have no trouble giving their customers bad news when necessary. Stuff happens - so why can't Ivars deal with this like an adult instead of hiding under the bed?

I've been test driving ebikes today. Cheap crap parts definitely affect the drivability and safety of any vehicle. I rode one that had a sticky throttle, and one that nearly drove me into a wall with its poor steering. Makes me wonder what will happen if these Sondors ebikes turn out to be shoddy crap.

 

[Hurley]

Hang in there Hulk. I am praying for you.
You are right, safety first. This will be very interesting when the first bikes are delivered. I really like the,way Radrover ran their campaign. Looks to be exceptional value. That is the way you do a campaign. Notice how fast the campaign went. They even already have a store setup. I really believe Sondors is stalling for even more money. Also, they said they won't do refunds until the campaign is over. Will it ever be over???

 

[wa5]

EULITTLB said.. I have had my ears pierced and am now in touch with my feminine side (Bruce Jenner/Caitlyn springs to mind - I now want to be known as Jessica). END..

Come clean buddy, you aren't changing your gender (or Jenner as the case may be), you are going for that cool SoCal beach boy look to emulate your um er "hero"... if you change your name to Hurricane Grace, I'm calling the loony bin

 

[wa5]

I think Sondors will look at refunds just after they start up their shipping rewards programme and their charity programme.

 

[Hurley]

I think Sondors will look at refunds just after they start up their shipping rewards programme and their charity programme.

My sarcasm alarm is ringing extra loud...

 

[Hurley]

Perhaps this should be in the "Unraveling" tab but here are some recent comments from the Sondors board...

"
bobkops
2 days ago
So there aren’t any waves anymore? So if you ordered your bike first you could get it later than someone that ordered a month ago depending on color? 12-14 days shipping to the funder or shipping from China Good thing every update they say pics will be provided throughout the production…..why announce it and just show them.

Loren Laurito
2 days ago
I’m confused here. I thought the order of shipment was going to be by position of order placement not by color. So if I ordered a yellow and orange in the first wave will I be getting mine before someone ordered a black and yellow in the second wave? Thank you.

Alberto Rubio Manzanilla
3 days ago
Hello guys, I am selling my black and yellow ebike Sondors. I bought it for 499$ which means 1st wave. I won’t use it so I want to get my money back. Price: 800$ shipping included. I will ship it as soon as I get it. Contact for more information: [email protected]"

The plot thickens...

 

[wa5]

I think the Waves still apply, they are just producing enough of each colour for the first wave.. actually seems silly to me, as the second wave has closed as well, why not send them out too... and given the third wave has been going for about a month, and theres only 20 odd bikes ordered. might as well send them down the line also.

 

[stevenast]

Actually shipping?

If you look at motive, like Colombo, it would appear that something must be getting shipped. Sales have slowed so much, $5.857 million as of today, it's hard to imagine any motivation the campaign would have for lying about it.

Therefore, deductive reasoning tells us that containers of Sondors e-bikes are on the way. Is there a flaw my logic?

 

[wa5]

Whilst I havnt seen enough proof to convince me totally that the boxes are definitely full of e bikes, they most probably are, problem is I've seen one container (which we will assume for arguments sake is full of E bikes) ... so 250 odd bikes shipped out of a bit under 8000..

Spec has changed massively on the bikes, so we have no idea on quality / ride ability compared to the demo bike. there are also still questions about Sondors ability to balance the budget and pay his bills. IE can he pay for the bikes, pay for his commitments to Agency 2.0 (whether you like the underhanded lying snakes or not, they have obviously paid out a lot of money for advertising, it was everywhere, they don't deserve to be part funders of customers bikes, and customers shouldn't expect them to be). and finally walk away with a profit.... I do question whether Storm will stick to that sequence.. I think his personal profit may be higher on his priority list than it should be.

 

[stevenast]

it's hard to imagine any motivation the campaign would have for lying about it.

Therefore, deductive reasoning tells us that containers of Sondors e-bikes are on the way. Is there a flaw my logic?

I was able to imagine this scenario: a container or two arrives in port, call it 500 bikes. The resulting surge in publicity results in a couple million dollars more in sales.

Any other possibilities I am overlooking?

 

[wa5]

Going into full conspiracy theory mode..... I saw 24 boxes in the back of a container, I have seen no proof of that container going anywhere near a port. simply by showing the container, Storm may be hoping for a surge in orders. The third wave is stuck on about 20 sales, so if showing the container was meant to kickstart sales..... it didn't work.

 

[Hurley]

Even at 20 bikes that is $13,000 more dollars...
You go out and try to raise that much on conjecture. Not an easy thing to do you will find out.

 

[FTC Complaint]

Actually shipping?

If you look at motive, like Colombo, it would appear that something must be getting shipped. Sales have slowed so much, $5.857 million as of today, it's hard to imagine any motivation the campaign would have for lying about it.

Therefore, deductive reasoning tells us that containers of Sondors e-bikes are on the way. Is there a flaw my logic?

My guess is he is shipping about one container a day. Some people are bent out of shape that they are "assembling" and then "shipping" the bike based on color (and the number of each color combination ordered from high to low). Of course, that would be the right way to assemble the bike efficiently. Agency 2.0 needs to be "freaking out" now because they moved from the first in line to get paid to the very last to get paid. This story is going to have a very long tail, without any accountability. .

 

[George S.]

I wonder how many people who paid for bikes are left, not in the completed parts 'buy'? Sales are now not meaningful. If they are making bikes for retail sale, down the line, it might not matter. If not, who knows who gets what, or what is left, or how it is accounted, come the end of this run.

The only event that matters now is seeing the bikes, seeing the reactions. That seems out there a ways. I'm more interested in how Haibike handles the speed Pedelec, here and in Europe. That's a good story. This story is limping along...

https://www.haibike.com/de/de

Schnelle ebikes. The Sondo is not a Schnelle ebike.

 

[Chas]

Yeah, the specs have changed. Ivars was a guy who didn’t know much about bikes or e-bikes, and put together a campaign based on best case scenario of what is “theoretically” possible in the eyes of someone who had never build a bike before.

Theoretically, all of the individual original claims are possible, just not in a single bike at that price point. From what I have seen, he is making good reasonable decisions. Better than I had hoped for. So far, I like what I see (better motor, realistic weight, good batteries, realistic charging time).

Ivars is a dreamer, who is bringing his dreams to reality. It is unfortunate that the campaign wasn’t marketed that way (but then they wouldn’t have those sales unless they gave the impression they had expertise and ability).

Design & Manufacturing genius indeed.

 

[Brambor]

Songo geht langsam

 

[Chas]

I wonder how many people who paid for bikes are left, not in the completed parts 'buy'? Sales are now not meaningful. If they are making bikes for retail sale, down the line, it might not matter. If not, who knows who gets what, or what is left, or how it is accounted, come the end of this run.

The only event that matters now is seeing the bikes, seeing the reactions. That seems out there a ways. I'm more interested in how Haibike handles the speed Pedelec, here and in Europe. That's a good story. This story is limping along...

https://www.haibike.com/de/de

Schnelle ebikes. The Sondo is not a Schnelle ebike.

Ausgezeichnet, ich brauche keine Mofa-Prüfbescheinigung in Deutschland. How cool is that. I just barely squeeked by that one. Apparently I do need one for Greece though. Bummer.

Why is sondor's not a Schnelle ebike? If it is rated over 25km/hr it is a S-pedelec, right? Sondors is rated at 2o mph. Thus, it need a driver's license, plates, and the insurance, and all the extra lovely germany regulations noted.

The answer to your question on HAIBIKES is easy in Europe and has been established for years in Germany; HAI customers follow those same regulations (and have for years). Any ebike that goes over 15 mph (basically 200 rpm) needs the same registration, vehicle license, driver's license, etc as a moped/scooter.

In the US that was a great story with the Specialized turbo, who's advertised speed of 28mph blew past the 20mph limit in the US. We all wondered how they were going to handle that one, but they managed to bend the rules enough to say: "Hey, it won't do over 20mph unless you pedal, so it meets the US federal regulations." That was an interesting story.

 

[stevenast]

Even at 20 bikes that is $13,000 more dollars...
You go out and try to raise that much on conjecture. Not an easy thing to do you will find out.

Gotta admire the vision to pull this off. He will be an instant millionaire.