Sondors Fact Finding. Due Diligence. Scrutiny.

[Brambor]

Very funny


The $6000 Felt Fat bike claims a 60 mile range and I don't see anyone validating than nonsense... The tax alone on that Felt is more than the Storm bike.

 

[wa5]

If I were being pedantic JoePah, I would point out that shipping was quoted as being May 1, not May 30, but its close enough, why fight over a month?

I've seen no proof, nor any claim by Storm that 5000 bikes have been shipped. so far, I've seen one container, I'd really like to see more of the production line than I have.

Amazing feat? The bike is all production parts save for the lunch box.. I don't see it as anything other than run of the mill.

Pedal assist increasing range by 50 percent.. seriously? .

 

[Brambor]

... and there are still soo many unanswered questions ;-)

 

[DWEBiker]

... and there are still soo many unanswered questions ;-)

Its no fun to just sit and wait and see what happens , far more fun to speculate and create drama ( cuz the wait is so boring)

 

[J.R.]

If I were being pedantic JoePah, I would point out that shipping was quoted as being May 1, not May 30, but its close enough, why fight over a month?

I've seen no proof, nor any claim by Storm that 5000 bikes have been shipped. so far, I've seen one container, I'd really like to see more of the production line than I have.

Amazing feat? The bike is all production parts save for the lunch box.. I don't see it as anything other than run of the mill.

Pedal assist increasing range by 50 percent.. seriously? .

Why fight over any of it?

There is no right to access to a Communist state owned and controlled industry. China is where everyone knowingly invested money. You get what they give and you're lucky to get that.

 

[stevenast]

There is no right to access to a Communist state owned and controlled industry. China is where everyone knowingly invested money. You get what they give and you're lucky to get that.

China does a good job of separating politics and money. The Sondors bike, when it appears in quantity, will be produced with whatever parts and specs that the Sondors campaign purchased from the factory.

 

[J.R.]

I know it sounds strange here in the United States, where politics and money are one and the same almost.
China is a totalitarian, repressive government socially ...but much closer to capitalistic than, say, the old Soviet Union was ...when it comes to good old money.
Sondors, and his supporters, will get from Chinese factories what the Sondors campaign purchases from them.

That wasn't the question and answer. The original post requested more photo proof! With China you get what they give, nothing more.

As for China, politics IS money and power over all else, that includes people.

 

[FTC Complaint]

And here is your "5 amp" charger that is able to charge your battery in "90 minutes." It turns out that it is a 1.8 amp hour battery charger.

I found a similar one being sold on ebay.

 

[scmike]

So at 1.8 amps per hour it will take 4-5 hrs to fully charge a depleted battery?? And if production of the Black/Yellow bikes
will be completed at the end of next week... That's approx. 2000 bikes in 20 days or a 100 bikes a day... so only 60 days more until 8000 bikes are built... something like that.... right... assuming they build in sequence... ending with the Blue/Black bikes.... What happened to the 12-14,000 bikes a month??

 

[George S.]

I guess he's confirmed he's got parts for a whole lot of the bikes, which means he had a lot of money. Production nowhere near the original scale. Sanity has prevailed on the charger. I guess the Catch 22 on the Perk insurance is you don't get the bike, and it looks like people should get the bike. Do you want your money back or the bike. Either way you are out the premium.

 

[Credible Hulk]

So at 1.8 amps per hour it will take 4-5 hrs to fully charge a depleted battery?? And if production of the Black/Yellow bikes
will be completed at the end of next week... That's approx. 2000 bikes in 20 days or a 100 bikes a day... so only 60 days more until 8000 bikes are built... something like that.... right... assuming they build in sequence... ending with the Blue/Black bikes.... What happened to the 12-14,000 bikes a month??

I think it's better and safer to have a slower charger. Sure the cells are Samsung, but that doesn't mean the battery itself is top-notch and won't blow up in your face with a 5 amp charger. I don't see a problem with a longer charge time, it's the reason I bought a spare battery. I wonder if the spares will be available aftermarket for customers who get a rude awakening when their real range is about 10 miles?

Re production - bikes "in order of quantity"? Not sure what they mean by that, but if their numbers are based on customer orders for each colour, I'm surprised the yellow/orange isn't the most popular colour. Oh well, either way, don't expect to see one of those boxes on your doorstep before August. I've already bought an e-scooter to ride this summer.

"What happened to the 12-14,000 bikes a month??" Same thing that happened to the "guaranteed MUCH less" shipping fee and numerous other empty promises. We can expect other unannounced downgrades like the battery charger, especially when (if) you open the box and find a few surprises. Keep a close eye on any production photos from now on.

 

[pxpaulx]

So at 1.8 amps per hour it will take 4-5 hrs to fully charge a depleted battery?? And if production of the Black/Yellow bikes
will be completed at the end of next week... That's approx. 2000 bikes in 20 days or a 100 bikes a day... so only 60 days more until 8000 bikes are built... something like that.... right... assuming they build in sequence... ending with the Blue/Black bikes.... What happened to the 12-14,000 bikes a month??

I would say they hyped using a manufacturer that could build 12 to 14 k bikes, not that every one of those bikes being built would be one of the sondors bikes. That is an easy bending of the truth for them!

 

[scmike]

Hype is what this whole campaign was/is based on... so no one should be surprised at this point...

 

[wa5]

Heres the Current update, for those that havnt seen it.

QUOTE.
10 hours ago
Hi Sondors eBike Backers!

I wanted to check in with everyone and give you a few updates. First, production is going strong with boxes continuing to be shipped out every day.

We are producing bikes by color and in order of quantity and here is where we stand as of this week:

- Black/Yellow: Production is on schedule to be complete by end of next week.

- Black/Black: Production is complete on all components and bikes to start shipping in next 12-14 days.

- Yellow/Orange: Production is complete on all components and bikes to start shipping in next 22-24 days.

- Blue/Black: Production is complete on all components and bikes to start shipping in next 24-26 days.

We’ll be sharing photos throughout production.

**Battery Upgrade Update**

About two months ago I gave you the good news that all generic batteries were upgraded to cells powered by Samsung. Here is a picture of the new Samsung-approved battery cell charger. Charging time will vary. The battery charger is synchronized with Samsung battery cells and is proven for a long lasting life cycle of the battery.

Storm Sondors

END QUOTE

 

[pxpaulx]

Well, better cells, proper charger - can't have both I guess? Safer to charge at the slower rate anyway and the claimed time was considered unrealistic by most to begin with.

 

[EULITTLB]

Further to the latest update I believe the concerns and claims of this ~Campaign being misleading - with patently false claims - are wholly justified. I've been undergoing counselling to help me overcome my infatuation with this Campaign, but my intuition was correct all along.

@ pxpaulx, agree that a proper charger and ditching the patently false claim of a 90 minute charge time is sensible, but that is hardly a defence concerning the deception inherent in this Campaign.

 

[pxpaulx]

@ pxpaulx, agree that a proper charger and ditching the patently false claim of a 90 minute charge time is sensible, but that is hardly a defence concerning the deception inherent in this Campaign.

I agree, but it isn't the first or last time a campaign makes a change to their product. If there weren't so many other things surrounding the campaign negatively, it would have been greeted with a shrug, and I'm sure that is what a majority of the contributors will do. It will go like this:

Those who are against the campaign will put a feather in their cap and wag their fingers some more about the campaign being untruthful.

Those who contributed will say I paid for a $500 crowd funding campaign on a bike I consider a good value and accept the change made, so what? (...not everyone, but most will be in this camp)

And we'll all begin again tomorrow

 

[EULITTLB]

The question is would the

I agree, but it isn't the first or last time a campaign makes a change to their product. If there weren't so many other things surrounding the campaign negatively, it would have been greeted with a shrug, and I'm sure that is what a majority of the contributors will do. It will go like this:

Those who are against the campaign will put a feather in their cap and wag their fingers some more about the campaign being untruthful.

Those who contributed will say I paid for a $500 crowd funding campaign on a bike I consider a good value and accept the change made, so what? (...not everyone, but most will be in this camp)

And we'll all begin again tomorrow

The question is would the campaign have been so successful if what was known about the ebike was promoted and advertised?

1) Charge time of 4-5 hours
2) 10-20 mile range
3) weight 60lbs
4) 6-8 month delivery time (from Feb 2015, never was manufacturing all in place as claimed)

and with that I must stop for the day and go cold turkey, great weekend everyone - luvvin' the BMW cruise ebike, I have not seen anyone else use an ebike in the UK!!!

 

[pxpaulx]

The question is would the


The question is would the campaign have been so successful if what was known about the ebike was promoted and advertised?

1) Charge time of 4-5 hours
2) 10-20 mile range
3) weight 60lbs
4) 6-8 month delivery time (from Feb 2015, never was manufacturing all in place as claimed)

and with that I must stop for the day and go cold turkey, great weekend everyone - luvvin' the BMW cruise ebike, I have not seen anyone else use an ebike in the UK!!!

Well, you can take a look at the Karmic Koben to potentially answer your questions - they lost about 15% off their campaign peak when they announced they were changing their battery supplier and delivery date for their bikes - they just happened to be honest enough about it up front before the campaign ended to give people the choice to continue.

 

[wa5]

this bikes specs have changed enough that the 60lbs weight will no longer be accurate. different motor, handlebars/ gooseneck, hand grips, throttle/ switchgear, controller, batteries. whats the bet it will be heavier.

Glad you're back Ian, place hasn't been the same without you

Just on the update.

Sondors claimed 12-14000 bike production per month, Philip Hillis claimed three million on ES at a factory called TPT. Production started 12 days ago according to video evidence (never Mind that Philip claimed all bikes were ready prior to shipping... its starting to appear that the voices informiming Philip are "ahem" mis informed...)... The least popular colour (blue / black) wont BEGIN final assembly for at least anther 24 days.. that's over a month after assembly started.. Given the first wave is around 7 to 8000 bikes, and the factory has a 12 to 14000 per month bike capacity.... shouldn't the final bike for the first wave be rolling ou of the factory early next week?

So they upgraded to better quality cells, so they cant be charged as quickly as cheap crappy cells, is that what Storm is saying? would the equivalent in the automotive world be "my Ferrari must run on low octane fuel because its better than a Hyundai"? surely better batteries should take a charge better than crappy ones (yes I'm aware the charge time of 90 minutes was a blatant lie)...