Sondors Fact Finding. Due Diligence. Scrutiny.

[Brambor]

Lada - you can't buy those in the US can you ? Yugo

 

[Ann M.]

@Nick Hull exactly which bikes and bike manufacturers are you referring to? Most of the ebike manufacturers I've worked with over the last 14 years have struggled to stay afloat without some major marketing or investment from much bigger regular bike companies. And from the standpoint of an ebike shop owner, the margins are not 'huge' on the bikes. With out the sale of accessories and service, a brick & mortar shop could not pay the bills on bike sales alone. Even online only stores have similar issues and have to diversify with other product or accessories.

 

[wa5]

So much more difficult for people like you Ann, who have to offer a warranty, insurance and ensure you product complies with local laws .. (after reading the current exchange on IGG, all things Storm does not appear to be offering)

 

[FTC Complaint]

Storm showing injection mold texture samples from Kowloon Hong Kong; and so the marketing continues (with a view of the "finished product" being the demonstration bike itself).

The case appears to have a plug and may therefore be vented; have they tested the plastic for fire resistance, heat resistance, environmental safety for this application? I would say NO.

 

[wa5]

The plug is there so the battery can be charged on the bike.. If they are going to be using a 5 amp charger, to achieve their 90 minute charge time, that might be less than ideal... however, I doubt that such a powerful charger will be included. so probably not a concern.

 

[FTC Complaint]

The plug is there so the battery can be charged on the bike.. If they are going to be using a 5 amp charger, to achieve their 90 minute charge time, that might be less than ideal... however, I doubt that such a powerful charger will be included. so probably not a concern.

Thanks I was thinking it was a pop-out vent to prevent the case itself from inadvertently becoming a bomb or bomb shrapnel, as marine cases have a vent for said purpose..

If they put a five amp charger on a cheap battery and without the proper electronics, they won't get a 90 minute charge, they will get fires and explosions.

 

[George S.]

@Nick Hull exactly which bikes and bike manufacturers are you referring to? Most of the ebike manufacturers I've worked with over the last 14 years have struggled to stay afloat without some major marketing or investment from much bigger regular bike companies. And from the standpoint of an ebike shop owner, the margins are not 'huge' on the bikes. With out the sale of accessories and service, a brick & mortar shop could not pay the bills on bike sales alone. Even online only stores have similar issues and have to diversify with other product or accessories.

Genze and Prodeco seem to be selling through Amazon. Amazon seems to be inventorying the Prodeco models, but Genze is a Third Party seller. When Genze links off their prolific Facebook posts, they link to Amazon. It might be interesting to see if Sondors tries to offer anything, down the road, through a stripped down storefront like Amazon. Between Amazon, Ebay, and Alibaba, you cover a lot of ground.

 

[scmike]

Wow, I just checked the Sondors update page and they've already finished one yellow eBike frame or is that the demo bike
from Malibu??? Seems odd that it is already partially wrapped/unwrapped... Makes me wonder...

 

[FTC Complaint]

Wow, I just checked the Sondors update page and they've already finished one yellow eBike frame or is that the demo bike
from Malibu??? Seems odd that it is already partially wrapped/unwrapped... Makes me wonder...

It is clearly stated, "From design to production, below is the final product."

The "final product" pictured would be the demo bike!

The marketing engine behind this bike has and will say anything.

 

[scmike]

Surely I jest... They must think their ave. funder has the intellect of a 10 yr. old or less. So was that "the" demo bike or the one
they shipped ahead of demo day, wink, wink??

 

[wa5]

That picture, the one of the bike frame could have been taken anywhere at any time... I wish there was enough resolution to read everything on the box behind it....

 

[Ann M.]

Did anyone else happen to notice that the 'new' update images of the battery box design are 6 days old? Look at the date at the bottom of the computer screen. All of this was worked out long before a trip to China

 

[wa5]

well spotted, also interesting that Storm is saying that textured plastic is an "extra" that he is "giving for free" as a thankyou... Wow.... that's really big of him..

just as an aside, I think we have all seen the pictures of John Hopps facebook bike that looks suspiciously like a Storm.. and can all guess the prototypes came from an Alibaba supplier... so we might assume the battery box is a direct copy of another Chinese bike makers product... I wonder if they will sue for theft of intellectual property? I know that China is famous for not seeing the minor similarities between western products and Chinese "ahem".. "tributes"... I wonder if they are equally relaxed when it comes to knocking off designs from other Chinese companies...

 

[scmike]

Did anyone else happen to notice that the 'new' update images of the battery box design are 6 days old? Look at the date at the bottom of the computer screen. All of this was worked out long before a trip to China

6 days old, not much of an update then... But according to the update page Storm has been in China since the 11th and that's probably a Chinese computer in the photo... I think they, the campaign, are just posting semi relevant photos just to look "busy" so to speak... I believe "something" is happening in China... but probably not fast enough... Just my opinion... The plastic triangle box should be an extra... it's not required and just adds cost, time and weight to what's supposed to be a stripped down affordable eBike...

 

[User 123]

What about the other changes then? Or am I over-reacting? Contrast with the actions of the CEO of Jivr bike who is answering backers questions personally on Kickstarter - I wouldn't have given a stuff if Sondors had answered someone else's question, so long as in doing so it answered mine. So I have to rely on Bruce Choate who I understand has no direct connection with the campaign who has confirmed for EU buyers that the bikes will be illegal for road use - is that as good as it gets? Anyway, no need to respond, pretty much done with Sondors, watch with amusement as pricks log on in my name on this forum and accuse me of posting on the IGG page under different names, I really cannot be bothered.

Lol how can you possibly compare the two campaigns?? The creator of the JIVR bike has only sold 65 bikes on kickstarter, and been asked 25 questions!! That's like comparing a small mom and pop store to a to a Wal-Mart!

 

[EULITTLB]

Show me one point anywhere where Sondors has answered any question at any point of the campaign - are you suggesting it is because he is overrun with questions? According to the IGG page Rachel or whoever in the office had organised all the questions three or four weeks ago and was methodically working through them all, answering a grand total of none to date.

Tell me, when is the next in the series of demo days that I predicted there would be one of? Riding 100m in a heavily congested area? It is farcical.

As others might agree, taking photos again wih the only single bike in existence is getting boring, producing 7500-8000+ bikes is the test, nothing else, and dealing with the quality, logistical and technical issues that arise with a team of one.

You ignore the points about drastic changes or Bruce Choate being left to confirm the bike is illegal for road use in the EU, as I have said all along there would be one demo day, there is one bike in existence, he bike will never sell for $1299 as claimed, there will be huge technical and logistical issues to overcome as well - can I just sit out now please and watch the show?

 

[FTC Complaint]

Storm appears to be posting two types of 18650 cells the pink ones are labeled samsung icr 18650-26f the green ones pictured are unknown.

It would be up to Storm to verify that these are indeed Samsung cells; and there is a way to do so, but I am not going to provide him with free consulting.

Ten series would be 37 volts - 4 parallel would be 10.4 amp hour
Thirteen series would be 48v - 4 parallel would be 10.4 amps hour

The series gets you to voltage and the parallel gets you to amp hours
2600x4

Battery housing pictured has 4x15 slots or = room for 60 batteries.

I think he is picturing a 48 volt battery

so yes they are batteries, but no you are not likely to get the batteries as configured in the pictures.

 

[George S.]

The green batteries are 2200 mah, and the pack is rated 8.8 AH. Put 10 of the green batteries in series, 4 in parallel (10s 4p) and you get the rated capacity they claimed. The 26F cells are 2600 mah, so they don't multiply up to 8.8 aH.

Model: Li18650-10S4P Volt: 36V Capacity: 8.8Ah (Source: Sondo Page)

So my guess is that the green batteries are the ones going in the pack. The cells appear to say IMR which is a chemistry, but not always a pure chemistry. You can Google it if your life is a meaningless Hell and it will keep you from putting a gun in your mouth.

 

[Ann M.]

Its just an older chemistry, Lithium Ion Manganese that supposedly is less vulnerable to burning up thus does not have as much of a need for a more expensive BMS than the higher performing INR chemistry of the Samsung cells does. Digging around on the web it seems that the Vaping folks are waaay into lithium battery technology!

 

[wa5]

sondors personally does not have to answer as long as someone answers from the group that organizes this buy. That's just the problem, Nobody from inside Indystorm2.0 has answered a damn thing, they are happy to put our press releases with "ahem" "optimistic claims".. but ask them a simple question and you get stonewalled.

the difference between hydraulic and cable brakes is really not that much of a change and visually not at at all. Actually some reputable Fatbike companies prefer mechanic disc brakes over hydraulic disc brakes because in colder climates the fluid in hydraulic brakes freezes. Would that happen only with old fluid, that has soaked up a lot of water?, The brakes always appeared to be cable, it was Storm who claimed they were Hydraulic, when they appeared to be cable, further demonstrating his cluelessness.

anyway, I can't believe I'm defending Sondors but basically I feel like you're demanding too much personal attention from him and then you cry he doesn't give it. It's like demanding Bill Gates to answer Windows Vista questions personally and then willify Microsoft if he does not... If I needed a question about why Windows 8 sucked so much, I'm sure I'd get it inside a month.. wouldn't care if big Willy didn't do the answering, as long as somebody from windows did... and I didn't have to rely on a bunch of fanbois with a Hitler complex .... Again, the point is NOBODY from indysondo2.0 is answering even one question.. John Hopp has a media background, where the hell is he?... I'm going a little retro here for fun purposes... blah blah blah I talk too much.