So excited to get your car-replacement advice!

[Aquapacata]

Hi everyone! We have recently had an e-bike purchase thrust upon us, in that our Nissan Leaf was totaled (thank you, random 16 year old on her way to school!), and it's a truly horrid time to buy a car (new, used, gas, electric, or otherwise), so we are trying to see if we can make do with one car, plus an electric commuter/cargo/utility bike until the electric car market sorts itself out.

I dove head-first into all the research, and have been able to see a decent number of models from e-bike manufacturers (Trek, Electra, Momentum, Specialized, Rad Power, Aventon, Norco) locally in person, and hope to hit some more (Biktrix, Gazelle, Blix) while traveling during my school's spring break next week.

I would LOVE to be told what to do with part of our insurance payout from the car!

The likely shopping list: ~750 Wh mid-drive electric with step-through/low step-through, detachable battery, higher range, stable tires (smaller and fatter are better), upright view, and able to mount Burley Travoy at seat post or from rack mount, front basket.

Budget: 2k-4k - cheaper bike makes getting two right away more likely.

Here are the factors:
- Detachable battery: Moderate climate with detached, uninsulated, unelectrified old garage and stairs up to house.
- Smaller, fatter tires with some suspension: Hilly town with occasional poor road maintenance, potholes, and debris, but increasing bike infrastructure
- Safety: Relatively bike-unaware drivers (safety worries, especially after a car crash)
- Higher range: Lovely greenways you can ride forever
- Very important: We use and LOVE our Burley Travoy for cargo and want to attach it at seat post or on bike rack mount. I just ordered the rack mount so I can cart it around with me to look at bikes. I'm concerned about bikes like the Biktrix Challenger that might be perfect, but the less-standard rear rack might require some modification.
- Shared bike, so ideally both seat and handles will adjust.
- Upright view preferred due to preference but also a broken elbow that healed imperfectly
- Step-through preferred due to one shorter rider with longer torso, as long as it doesn't compromise weight limit/frame integrity too much.
- Front basket would be lovely
- At least one older, fatter, less healthy rider (speaking for myself, at least!) compared to some on this forum, I expect.
- Would love a bike with minimized Chinese manufacture/assembly, in part for our very principled 12 year old's approval.
- Safety, cargo, higher weight limit, reliability, quality, and comfort are the priorities. Speed and looks not so much (of course, those are exactly what the 12 year old wants!).

Wanted primarily for trips of less than 10 miles round trip, but possibly several in a day, or stacked errands. The work commute I'd be doing is about 5 miles round-trip, but there is also a 15 mile round trip commute possible, depending how safe the bike feels. We live in the center of a mountainous small city of 100k in Virginia, but would love to take advantage (especially if we got two!) of the extensive trails in our region.

Let me know what you think! We are lucky to have a great LBS walking distance from the house who says they will work on pretty much anything and have very experienced electric mechanics.

 

[fooferdoggie]

my advice if you really want to do this you need a reliable dependable bike. getting one locally that is easy to repair is critical to this. I commute almost 100 miles a week I have to have dependability.

 

[Aquapacata]

I can't help you much on your search for ebikes, I myself have only been ebiking year and half. My bike gets more use than my other vehicles now.
Plenty of members here can probably help point you to the ebikes you want.
Welcome to EBR.

Thank you! Looking forward to the insights! Thanks for replying and bumping the thread!

 

[Aquapacata]

If you're saying no to Chinese manufactured ebikes, you are eliminating brands like Rad Power, Biktrix, VoltBike, DOST, Juiced, Eunorau, Aventon, and whole bunch of other ebikes.
Are you sure you want to do that? Chinese ebikes have lots of power and easy parts accessibility off AliExpress. But that's my personal opinion because I like to be able to fix it myself and I'm also a very budget conscious buyer.

No, honestly, I’m not sure. It’s my son’s strongly held feeling, but I am more negotiable. if the perfect bike is more Chinese than not, we will work it out.

 

[fooferdoggie]

If you're saying no to Chinese manufactured ebikes, you are eliminating brands like Rad Power, Biktrix, VoltBike, DOST, Juiced, Eunorau, Aventon, and whole bunch of other ebikes.
Are you sure you want to do that? Chinese ebikes have lots of power and easy parts accessibility off AliExpress. But that's my personal opinion because I like to be able to fix it myself and I'm also a very budget conscious buyer.

if your commuting daily waiting months for parts wont work.

 

[m@Robertson]

thoughts from a daily commuter, cargo bike rider and builder:

• Cargo bikes as a genre are expensive. Expect the 4k number. Forget about 2k if you want quality components.
• Cargo bike load capacity is determined oftentimes not by the frame or even the wheels... Its the tires. Tires also typically play a big part in ride comfort. Go big. Expect, in fact, to throw away whatever tires come on the bike. They won't be good and you need the best if you are riding down the street and want to NOT have to stop and repair a flat on a bike that needs a hoist to get a tire off the ground (you have to think about this kind of stuff when going to a daily-driver mode on a bike). In the cargo bike community the Schwalbe Marathon and Schwalbe Pickup are the flat-free kings of the road.
• Safety will be an issue. Wear ultra bright reflective jackets like the Proviz, which are astonishing to motorists and you can see them stop and just stare. Which is great because they are not pulling in front of you. emtb full face helmets if you are hobnobbing with autos on the street in bike lanes. Especially at rush hour in the dark. Best of breed is likely the Bell Super Air R. Light weight and has the hemispherical MIPS which is a gen2 kind of improvement over the typical MIPS system. Motorcycle and ski helmets are out. Not enough ventilation as you cook your noggin working the pedals and enclosing your head with those kinds of helmets.
• The Travoy is on you. I'm familiar with it and its neat and all, but expect you will have to fab something up if it can't plug right in, which is unlikely on a mid- or longtail.
• Shared bike. Seat adjust yes. Handlebars no. Or rather no unless you are riding one of a very, very few bikes with adjustable handlebar height. Reach is a lot more likely to be an issue given differing heights and thats not going to be solved with handlebars. Here's a thought: Two saddles and two seatposts. Each saddle tailored to rider's anatomy and each seatpost can have a setback or not as dictated by rider anatomy. Just plunk on the seatpost belonging to self and leave the other one in the garage.
• You can buy front baskets. The Evo Brooklyn is just one of a great many integrated into a set of handlebars. If you find a bike you like, don't be shy about pulling the handlebars, saddle, pedals and replacing with something you like better. Expect to do this with a bike as part of personal fitment. that goes for adding racks. Budget for this.
• Minimize Chinese parts? Sure. Throw away your budget. My Chumba Ursa Major frame retailed for $2500 (I got it half off.) Phil Wood hubs are $250+ each. Their double-butted spokes are $1.32 per spoke and that doesn't include the nipple at another ten cents a pop. My MRP Ribbon fork on my enduro was $1000. My Wren fork on my Surly Big Fat Dummy cargo bike was $800. You get the idea. If you are on a budget just forget this idea completely or have the kid turn over his allowance for a couple years.
• Weight: Best you are commonly going to get is about 400 lbs. 440-460 if you get the right bike. That is total system weight which includes the rider, the bike and all cargo. I have gotten up to 560 with custom wheels and big tires on a bike rated for 400. Get this: Riding at 400+ lbs is a nightmare on anything but a frontloader like a Bullitt or Supermarche. Balance is what gets you. You can't change this so just be aware there is such a thing as total system weight and be sure to ask for it from all of your prospective candidates. And remember that whatever the numbers say, a 400+ lb ride is a 5mph freight train you can barely stop and, should a row of baby ducks cross your path... its duck soup for dinner.

Some food for thought:

Mid Tail, Long Tail or Front Loader (which cargo bike do I choose)?

I never planned on building three different classes of cargo bike, but I did. What are their strengths and weaknesses?

talesontwowheels.com

 

[fooferdoggie]

Many Chinese ebikes come from the same manufacture.
At least they share the same components.

I like Chinese ebikes because I have an option to go different companies to get parts, if I can't wait.
If one distributor says they're out of stock for something, I could just go find a different company that has something in stock.

Yes, I know there are times when nobody has anything, but at least I feel like I have an option.

but still long waits for parts if this is your daily bike its not going to work so well. then you need a second bike while waiting for parts for the first bike.

 

[tomjasz]

we tried to buy a hybrid. the Toyota lots here have NO new cages.

 

[tomjasz]

but at least I feel like I have an option.

yeah delusion is a strange bedfellow.

 

[tomjasz]

typical timpo. short on experience and long on blather.

 

[tomjasz]

If you're saying no to Chinese manufactured ebikes, you are eliminating brands like Rad Power, Biktrix, VoltBike, DOST, Juiced, Eunorau, Aventon, and whole bunch of other ebikes.

good idea.

 

[Aquapacata]

You are very correct on this. Having a shop is important for new ebikers. My first ebike Aventon Level had all kinds of issues with it but the dealer was quick to fix them.
My 3rd bike on order will have a Bafang motor. I was hesitant at first but I went ahead pull the trigger. I bought mine at a Biktrix supported dealer. I hope it comes soon.

This is great advice! Luckily I’m about 3/4 mile from two different shops, both pretty skilled. One supports Rad Power and Norco and has an engineer by training who does the electrical work including retrofits but seems not to be around much, and one sells Specialized and Giant and says they can support anything. The Trek and Electra supporting store is far enough away that I would drive to them personally (just outside city limits), but with a proper car hitch can also be done! I was sort of giving Specialized and Giant the edge because the hours on that shop are a bit more reliable, it’s a bigger operation, and they have several electric qualified mechanics. But actually the Trek shop, which has been around since the early 70’s, took a lot of personal interest in our needs. Still given the ease of getting to the Specialized/Giant store, I would clear any purchase by them first.

 

[Dewey]

Tern got mentioned in an earlier post, they have a new model out the Tern Quick Haul. It has an adjustable stem and seatpost that make it easy to share between two riders of different heights, the frame is a step-through with a low 19” stand-over height, the rear rack is rated to carry 110lb, it has an optional frame mounted front rack, and 20” wheels. Tern is a Taiwanese brand with the frames made in Vietnam, while Bosch motor and batteries are made in Hungary.

 

[tomjasz]

Tern got mentioned in an earlier post, they have a new model out the Tern Quick Haul. It has an adjustable stem and seatpost that make it easy to share between two riders of different heights, the frame is a step-through with a low 19” stand-over height, the rear rack is rated to carry 110lb, it has an optional frame mounted front rack, and 20” wheels. Tern is a Taiwanese brand with the frames made in Vietnam, while Bosch motor and batteries are made in Hungary. A similar bike but without the heavy duty cargo rack is the Cube Compact Sport Hybrid model.

I enjoyed my Zizzo build with a BBS01B 36v 250w. It was rated as capable with 300lb. A 14ah Atlas battery from EM3ev knocked out and easy 40 miles and 19mph with no issues. I really disliked the fork geometry and narrow bars, found on many folders. More my issue perhaps as I become less able. As is typical of me I need hands on to have a clear feel for a project or ebike product.

 

[Bicyclista]

Hi everyone! We have recently had an e-bike purchase thrust upon us, in that our Nissan Leaf was totaled (thank you, random 16 year old on her way to school!), and it's a truly horrid time to buy a car (new, used, gas, electric, or otherwise), so we are trying to see if we can make do with one car, plus an electric commuter/cargo/utility bike until the electric car market sorts itself out.

I dove head-first into all the research, and have been able to see a decent number of models from e-bike manufacturers (Trek, Electra, Momentum, Specialized, Rad Power, Aventon, Norco) locally in person, and hope to hit some more (Biktrix, Gazelle, Blix) while traveling during my school's spring break next week.

I would LOVE to be told what to do with part of our insurance payout from the car!

The likely shopping list: ~750 Wh mid-drive electric with step-through/low step-through, detachable battery, higher range, stable tires (smaller and fatter are better), upright view, and able to mount Burley Travoy at seat post or from rack mount, front basket.

Budget: 2k-4k - cheaper bike makes getting two right away more likely.

Here are the factors:
- Detachable battery: Moderate climate with detached, uninsulated, unelectrified old garage and stairs up to house.
- Smaller, fatter tires with some suspension: Hilly town with occasional poor road maintenance, potholes, and debris, but increasing bike infrastructure
- Safety: Relatively bike-unaware drivers (safety worries, especially after a car crash)
- Higher range: Lovely greenways you can ride forever
- Very important: We use and LOVE our Burley Travoy for cargo and want to attach it at seat post or on bike rack mount. I just ordered the rack mount so I can cart it around with me to look at bikes. I'm concerned about bikes like the Biktrix Challenger that might be perfect, but the less-standard rear rack might require some modification.
- Shared bike, so ideally both seat and handles will adjust.
- Upright view preferred due to preference but also a broken elbow that healed imperfectly
- Step-through preferred due to one shorter rider with longer torso, as long as it doesn't compromise weight limit/frame integrity too much.
- Front basket would be lovely
- At least one older, fatter, less healthy rider (speaking for myself, at least!) compared to some on this forum, I expect.
- Would love a bike with minimized Chinese manufacture/assembly, in part for our very principled 12 year old's approval.
- Safety, cargo, higher weight limit, reliability, quality, and comfort are the priorities. Speed and looks not so much (of course, those are exactly what the 12 year old wants!).

Wanted primarily for trips of less than 10 miles round trip, but possibly several in a day, or stacked errands. The work commute I'd be doing is about 5 miles round-trip, but there is also a 15 mile round trip commute possible, depending how safe the bike feels. We live in the center of a mountainous small city of 100k in Virginia, but would love to take advantage (especially if we got two!) of the extensive trails in our region.

Let me know what you think! We are lucky to have a great LBS walking distance from the house who says they will work on pretty much anything and have very experienced electric mechanics.

I have experience with a few cargo ebikes: a Tern HSD, a Yuba Spicy Curry AT (all terrain), and a Radwagon. I also own a Haibike full suspension e-mountain bike outffited with a rear rack and panniers which could be a car replacement if you don't carry a lot of stuff.

I bought the Tern HSD for my girlfriend, and she loves it. I ride it occasionally. Its folding handlebars make it easy to put into the trunk of a car (rear seats folded). Its 20-inch wheels make for a somewhat jittery ride, but you get used to it quickly. It has a suspension fork and a suspension seatpost. Overall, it's a good bike. However, the Bosch Performance Line motor is not as strong as it should be for a cargo bike. Climbing steep hills with a passenger or with a load is tough. I wish it had the Bosch Cargo Line motor, but that was not available in 2020. If you get a Tern, get the GSD which now comes with the stronger Bosch Cargo Line motor.

I recently bought a Yuba Spicy Curry AT which does come with the Bosch Cargo Line motor. It has a 26-inch wheel in front and a 20-inch wheel in back. Such a mullet configuration means you get the rolling advantage of a large wheel in front, and the lower rack height in back for stability. Its long wheelbase provides great straight-line stability. It differs from the regular Spicy Curry in that it has a suspension fork and a suspension seat post. It also differs in not having an adjustable stem and it has flat bars, making the reach longer and the riding position more aggressive. I modified mine with a stem riser and Jones H-Bars so that I sit nearly upright. I opted for two batteries. My range is about 80 miles! A great, go-anywhere, cargo bike.

My daughter owns a Radwagon and she uses it to take her daughter to pre-school every day. It is a good, budget cargo bike. It's ride quality is not as good as the Tern or the Yuba, nor is it as good a climber, but it costs a fraction of the others. My granddaughter loves to ride in it!

The Yuba and the Tern are probably outside your budget, but if you're looking for a car replacement, you should get a quality, reliable bike, and there is a greater chance of that with a higher budget.

Whichever cargo bike you get, make sure it has a strong motor. Torque, measured in newton-meters (Nm) is more important than power in watts. A Yamaha motor would be strong, and the Bosch Cargo Line motors would be strong. I would avoid those Bosch motors that produce less than 85Nm. I don't have any experience with other brands.

I used a Burley Travoy with my Haibike for a few months. Unfortunately it would overturn in sharp turns unless I slowed down to a crawl. I don't need it with my Spicy Curry because I have more than enough cargo capacity.

Finally, get communication helmets such as Sena's. They will make riding more enjoyable and safer. You can talk with your partner without riding side by side, and you can warn each other of hazards.

Good luck in your search!

 

[m@Robertson]

Tern got mentioned in an earlier post, they have a new model out the Tern Quick Haul. It has an adjustable stem and seatpost that make it easy to share between two riders of different heights, the frame is a step-through with a low 19” stand-over height, the rear rack is rated to carry 110lb, it has an optional frame mounted front rack, and 20” wheels. Tern is a Taiwanese brand with the frames made in Vietnam, while Bosch motor and batteries are made in Hungary.

Thats a neat bike. but as I was saying above, you have to look at total system weight as well. Rear rack capacity is 50 kg/110 lbs as you reported. So that means no kids over 110 lbs. Good to know. Add the optional front rack that is rated for an additional 20 kg /44 lbs. Tern says calls the Gross Vehicle Weight limit (good on them to use a more commonly understood term) is 150 kg: 331 lbs. That means when both racks are loaded, the max rider weight on this bike is 176 lbs.

 

[m@Robertson]

Such a mullet configuration means you get the rolling advantage of a large wheel in front, and the lower rack height in back for stability.

<snip>

Jones H-Bars

That smaller 20" rear wheel also gives a torque advantage.

Jones H-bars are awesome. More hand positions and the 45-degree pullback coupled to long 8.5" grips mean you can sit up or lean down, choke up and honk on the pedals. All while keeping the brake levers in reach. I use them on most of my bikes as they also relieve wrist pain I suffer from after an auto vs. bike accident.

 

[tomjasz]

Jones

Oh my!

 

[m@Robertson]

Oh my!

Made specifically for the BBSHD and rather pricey if I recall correctly. I remember when they came out, but they never made much of an impact in the market and frankly I'd forgotten they exist.

 

[Taylor57]

Hi everyone! We have recently had an e-bike purchase thrust upon us, in that our Nissan Leaf was totaled (thank you, random 16 year old on her way to school!), and it's a truly horrid time to buy a car (new, used, gas, electric, or otherwise), so we are trying to see if we can make do with one car, plus an electric commuter/cargo/utility bike until the electric car market sorts itself out.

I dove head-first into all the research, and have been able to see a decent number of models from e-bike manufacturers (Trek, Electra, Momentum, Specialized, Rad Power, Aventon, Norco) locally in person, and hope to hit some more (Biktrix, Gazelle, Blix) while traveling during my school's spring break next week.

I would LOVE to be told what to do with part of our insurance payout from the car!

The likely shopping list: ~750 Wh mid-drive electric with step-through/low step-through, detachable battery, higher range, stable tires (smaller and fatter are better), upright view, and able to mount Burley Travoy at seat post or from rack mount, front basket.

Budget: 2k-4k - cheaper bike makes getting two right away more likely.

Here are the factors:
- Detachable battery: Moderate climate with detached, uninsulated, unelectrified old garage and stairs up to house.
- Smaller, fatter tires with some suspension: Hilly town with occasional poor road maintenance, potholes, and debris, but increasing bike infrastructure
- Safety: Relatively bike-unaware drivers (safety worries, especially after a car crash)
- Higher range: Lovely greenways you can ride forever
- Very important: We use and LOVE our Burley Travoy for cargo and want to attach it at seat post or on bike rack mount. I just ordered the rack mount so I can cart it around with me to look at bikes. I'm concerned about bikes like the Biktrix Challenger that might be perfect, but the less-standard rear rack might require some modification.
- Shared bike, so ideally both seat and handles will adjust.
- Upright view preferred due to preference but also a broken elbow that healed imperfectly
- Step-through preferred due to one shorter rider with longer torso, as long as it doesn't compromise weight limit/frame integrity too much.
- Front basket would be lovely
- At least one older, fatter, less healthy rider (speaking for myself, at least!) compared to some on this forum, I expect.
- Would love a bike with minimized Chinese manufacture/assembly, in part for our very principled 12 year old's approval.
- Safety, cargo, higher weight limit, reliability, quality, and comfort are the priorities. Speed and looks not so much (of course, those are exactly what the 12 year old wants!).

Wanted primarily for trips of less than 10 miles round trip, but possibly several in a day, or stacked errands. The work commute I'd be doing is about 5 miles round-trip, but there is also a 15 mile round trip commute possible, depending how safe the bike feels. We live in the center of a mountainous small city of 100k in Virginia, but would love to take advantage (especially if we got two!) of the extensive trails in our region.

Let me know what you think! We are lucky to have a great LBS walking distance from the house who says they will work on pretty much anything and have very experienced electric mechanics.

Ride 1 UP Cafe Cruiser step thru may be good option. I would also look into Espin Flow. If the LBS will work on any bike, you could buy 2 and be under budget...