Rockshox Monarch RL... Doesn't fully extend?

[PCeBiker]

Just found this ...

That It !!
That's exactly what I was thinking of doing, but didn't want to bugger up the seals.

I'm glad you posted that before I removed the IFP Valve Cap.

 

[Gionnirocket]

And found this now... Not sure why my searches didn't have these results before...

Google Search

Monarch + RC3, "STUCK DOWN"

Morning all,

www.vitalmtb.com

 

[Gionnirocket]

So overloading with grease may not be a good idea as it can clog the equalization/balancing port.
And maybe that's why they use just a grease film on the seals and then a few ml of oil

It's the small details Norton!

 

[PCeBiker]

OK, that all makes sense now.
My can wasn't pressurized so it just unthreaded and stayed there.

When I push the can on, it pressurized the lower chambers.

I wouldn't think that jamming a feeler gauge under the seal would be a recommended procedure, but whatever?

 

[PCeBiker]

So overloading with grease may not be a good idea as it can clog the equalization/balancing port.

I don't think that's the problem.

You can't install the can without pressurizing the lower chamber.

 

[Gionnirocket]

OK, that all makes sense now.
My can wasn't pressurized so it just unthreaded and stayed there.

When I push the can on, it pressurized the lower chambers.

I wouldn't think that jamming a feeler gauge under the seal would be a recommended procedure, but whatever?

I wouldn't do it.. You'll damage the seals and your not fixing the issue that caused the imballance

 

[Gionnirocket]

I don't think that's the problem.

You can't install the can without pressurizing the lower chamber.

No not the problem... But also not a good idea

 

[PCeBiker]

Just found this video...

It Worked !!!

I bent a feeler gauge kinda rounded and stuck in.

A bunch of air and gobs of grease came out as well.

It is now fully extended even when I released the pressure,..

 

[Gionnirocket]

Coolio... It's a quick fix.
But in my case it doesn't solve the problem as it returned after 50 miles or so.
Now with the new articles and videos I'm thinking the $20 / 50 hour service should be all I need to do.

 

[PCeBiker]

But in my case it doesn't solve the problem as it returned after 50 miles or so.

I'm still not 100% sure that my shock is OK.
I'll have to see if it starts sagging after a couple rides.

I didn't give it much of a test ride, but it didn't sag any further than before the ride. (about 35 km)

 

[PCeBiker]

Coolio... It's a quick fix.

Dude !! Seriously,..
You Have To Do This !!

But in my case it doesn't solve the problem as it returned after 50 miles or so.

I'll Bet You $10 CAD that it will indeed Permanently Fix Your Shock !!

Now with the new articles and videos I'm thinking the $20 / 50 hour service should be all I need to do.

Yes, Yes, and Yes again,..


When the can is Forced on, or you compress the damper assembly to thread on the can, you compress air between the damper seal and the can seal.

This air space here,..

There's a lot less air volume between the two seals (the lower chamber) than in the other chamber above. (the upper chamber?)

The pressure in the lower chamber, can EXPLODE the can off as mentioned in that link you posted.

If there is a "balancing" valve, or whatever that's supposed to "balance" the pressure between the Upper and Lower chambers, it obviously doesn't always work or something ??

I wouldn't do it.. You'll damage the seals and your not fixing the issue that caused the imballance

You Would fix the Issue !!

I'm sure that you can bleed the pressure off without damaging the "stanchion" or the seals if you use a proper feeler gauge, like in the video,..

You need to bleed that pressure off from forcing the can on.

,.. it doesn't solve the problem as it returned after 50 miles or so.

What you gots go-in is one of these used to start 's,..

Remember the P,V,T equation from science class?

50 miles of pumping up the heat is more than enough to create A HUGE 🌡 inside the lower chamber.

When the lower chamber Over Pressurizes, IT PULLS THE SHOCK CLOSED !!

So, when you let it sit after your ride, and it slowly recovers, it's because it has cooled off, and depressurized enough for the 150-275 PSI in the upper chamber to push back and extend the shock.


I have indeed 'ed a Vado, but I stand behind everything that I just made up.

My stanchion looks fine. No feeler gauge scratches.

It's leaking grease, but it always did.

 

[Gionnirocket]

I know what your saying but my shock was perfect after opening up to re_grease and reassembly . I had full travel and then after a few rides the problem returned. If I still had some measure of the issue after assembly I would agree with you 100%
So this tells me that parts need to be changed.
I'm going to replace all the air can rubber

 

[Gionnirocket]

... think of this.
Even if you end up with the shock under negative pressure on assembly. You should be able to exercise the shock thru full motion and it should equalize.
Just like when you pressurize it to proper sag and then exercise thru full motion to equalize the chambers.

 

[PCeBiker]

... think of this.
Even if you end up with the shock under negative pressure on assembly. You should be able to exercise the shock thru full motion and it should equalize.

It didn't equalize on it's own.
After I assembled the shock I "exercised" it by riding it and bouncing on the seat.
I even held the rear wheel on the ground and pulled up on the seat to "stretch" it open further, but the shock stayed compressed.

Just like when you pressurize it to proper sag and then exercise thru full motion to equalize the chambers.

I'm not sure how the shock is supposed to equalize or how the air gets from the upper to the lower chambers?

I figure that the air isn't going through the damper assembly or the IFP, because it's pressurized to 500 PSI, so they must be isolated and separated from each other?

Coolio... It's a quick fix.
But in my case it doesn't solve the problem as it returned after 50 miles or so.
Now with the new articles and videos I'm thinking the $20 / 50 hour service should be all I need to do.

I still think that you should try it to see what happens.
Worst case scenario is you damage your seals, but you're intending to replace them anyway.

It would help to isolate the problem and make sure that a complete seal replacement will ultimately fix your problem.

What happens when you let the air out of the shock now?
Does it compress right down?

My shock doesn't compress any more after "burping" the lower chamber.

I still think it's possible to fix your shock by doing this?

Perhaps your shock didn't end up with as much air in the lower chamber as mine, so when you inflated it, there was enough pressure to force the shock all the way open?

 

[Gionnirocket]

The equalization of negative and positive pressure refers only to the air can and I believe that it happens thru the aircan dimple with positive being above the part called seal head/air can, and the negative being below.
My shock is already apart so it's not going back together without replacing all the seals as just doing a clean and re_lube was already done and ended up being a temporary fix.
So in my mind the release of pressure with the feeler cures the symptom but the cause still remains unless it was a one off fluke.
Keep this in mind.. Much of the crap on youtube and other s*it people post as fixes are one off that never have any follow up. Kinda like in this thread if I didn't return to state my fix was a fugazi. I think most are too embarrassed/lazy to post updates. I'm thinking the same for the post that said load it up with grease... Which may be why you had problems.
Another thought is just disassembling a shock with seals that have heavy use is enough to cause them to fail. They were OK until messed with.

So is your shock working correctly?

 

[PCeBiker]

The equalization of negative and positive pressure refers only to the air can and I believe that it happens thru the aircan dimple with positive being above the part called seal head/air can, and the negative being below.

That's kinda what I was thinking .

Perhaps if I could have pulled the shock apart far enough during my first attempt to pull the seal all the way up to the dimple, it would have equalized?

So in my mind the release of pressure with the feeler cures the symptom but the cause still remains unless it was a one off fluke.

So far it's been fine, but I've only ridden it the one time since I used the feeler gauge.
When I release the air pressure, my shock stays extended now.

Keep this in mind.. Much of the crap on youtube and other s*it people post as fixes are one off that never have any follow up. Kinda like in this thread if I didn't return to state my fix was a fugazi. I think most are too embarrassed/lazy to post updates. I'm thinking the same for the post that said load it up with grease... Which may be why you had problems.

I did put A LOT of grease in there,.
I didn't measure anything.
I just kept in mind that 1cc is about the size of a sugar cube.

I had 2 or 3 cubes worth in there, then squirted out a half a cube with the feeler gauge.

I had problems getting the can to reach the threads to screw it back together, where the grease in the upper chamber wasn't even sealed inside yet.
I had to compress the damper to thread the can on.

The gobs of grease in the lower chamber would increase the pressure needed to thread the can on though.

Another thought is just disassembling a shock with seals that have heavy use is enough to cause them to fail. They were OK until messed with.

That makes sense, but I didn't like seeing grease and/oil leaking out of my shock, and then the tiny spec of grease that was still left inside when I took it apart.

I wanted to make sure that it didn't run dry again, and using the grease like a token or puck made sense to me.

I figured that the grease would be able to be pushed through a valve, port, or dimple with over 200 PSI pushing on it?

So is your shock working correctly?

Yes, as far as I can tell.
It hasn't collapsed, but I've only ridden it the one time, and I did all the other suspension changes as well, so it was kinda hard to "feel" any differences.

I did bounce around in my seat while watching the shock and it looked good.

I still haven't set my preload to 20% yet because I forgot to put the O-ring on the shock when I installed it.

I just went with the PSI being equivalent to my riding weight.

 

[PCeBiker]

So is your shock working correctly?

I thought I'd update this thread to say that my shock is Fixed !!

I used a Zip tie to make a sag indicator because I was too lazy to reinstall the O-ring.

I found this in that link you posted,..

I didn't really give that a good try, but I did kinda try to lift the seat.

The equalization of negative and positive pressure refers only to the air can and I believe that it happens thru the aircan dimple with positive being above the part called seal head/air can, and the negative being below.

I'm thinking that too, so maybe if I had pushed the seat up hard enough, I could have got the seal into the dimple.

But this was also stated in that thread,..

I couldn't find no damn holes !!??
That's why I started remove set screws to try to bleed the pressure off.

Maybe the holes are on the Debonair's secondary air can ?? I dunno??

Keep this in mind.. Much of the crap on youtube and other s*it people post as fixes are one off that never have any follow up. Kinda like in this thread if I didn't return to state my fix was a fugazi.

I think most are too embarrassed/lazy to post updates.

I did neglect to post about my fugazi.
I did actually F-up my shock the day before you posted about the feeler gauge.

While removing stuff trying to bleed the pressure off, I thought that it would be a good idea to remove the rebound adjustment knob to see what's underneath.

I removed this set screw to get the dial out and I couldn't get the damn thing back together.
The tiny spring and ball bearing for the dedents fell out and was blocking the dial from seating itself, so I removed them, but I still couldn't get it back together.

You posted that the shocks are assembled with the rebound set to , and that's where I had it set anyway, so I didn't really care if I could adjust it.

I can tell by bouncing on the pedals that it's stuck at .


I needed to plug the hole, so I inserted the dial as far as I could get it, but the set screw has a pin on the end that fits into a slot on the dial to hold it in place and allow it rotate.
The pin wouldn't line up with the slot, so I installed it upside-down and snugged it up with a pliers to keep the dial from falling out.

I was ready to throw in the towel and buy a new shock, but everything kinda worked out OK

I don't need to adjust my rebound, and I'm sure that I could get it back together if I take the damper apart or something, but I'm not gonna bother.
I was reaching down and playing with the dial while I was riding anyway, and I mighta pinched a finger off.


So, not too bad.
Only three parts left over after I fixed what I broke that was never broken in the first place.

I did notice (back before I broke my dial), that the "Rebound" adjustment seems to affect the compression as well.
If I bounced on the pedals, I could feel the compression tightening up as well as the rebound.
It compressed slower at

And I found these charts,..

Plush is what I want for the gravel roads with potholes that I ride.
I need maximum traction, and lots of soft travel to keep my tread on the ground, and soak up potholes that I didn't see.

I suppose that plush isn't very efficient, but I gots a motor, so I don't care.

And the efficiency thing doesn't apply to me too much, because the gravel roads I ride are almost perfectly flat, so my suspension really only moves when I hit a rough patch or pothole. (Or I hit the brakes.)


I also noticed that my shock isn't leaking anymore !!

The stanchion is dry !!

So I'm thinking that grease doesn't migrate past the seals like the oil does?

I'm not going to hesitate from greasing my shock (it's broken anyway ), so maybe every 3 weeks like that other guy ?

I'll do it the same way and leave it on the bike.
I'll try pushing up on the seat to equalize the pressure but I'm fine with using the feeler gauge again.
Either way, 10 minutes tops !!

 

[Gionnirocket]

You crack me up.
We read the same blog and extract two different highlights.

I tried pushing the saddle up even before reading about it but didn't have a good angle nor the strength. He's probably on a MTB with no rack or fenders. Tried this even with the bike suspended in air pulling down on the tire and suspension... No go.

 

[PCeBiker]

You crack me up.
We read the same blog and extract two different highlights.

,..

Well I'm willing to bet that the truth is somewhere in between??

My shock was fine until I took it apart.
I just needed to burp my can,..

Everything is fine now.

As far as blocking the "transfer port",..

He's talking about air pucks or volume spacers blocking the port, and/or blowing the seals outta place.

I ain't got non of those.
Just a Big Gob of grease.


The grease oozed out from the lower chamber easily when inserted the feeler gauge.

I'm sure that grease can easily squirt past this "Transfer Dimple",..

It's a Gaping Hole by comparison,..

A plastic puck might block the hole but not grease that's only as thick as snot.


Perhaps a 2 ton press hooked up in reverse to become a 2 ton stretcher, could overcome the pressure in the lower chamber and force a gooey grease beltch through the "grease transfer portal" (dimple) ???



I went for a 111 km 4:20 hour ride today, and my shock performed Completely Normal,..

I didn't hit any Big bumps or go over any stumps or curbs, so my sag indicator looks pretty close to perfect ??,..

And no more greasy dust to scratch my stanchion.

I'm not worried about running out of gooey snot, cuz there's still a big gob in the upper chamber.

It likes to migrate, but not like the oil that flushes right past the seals.

 

[PCeBiker]

This is from the DNM website about what I think is your new shock,.. ??

So if you and your equipment happen to weigh more than 150 pounds, how do you add 5-30 PSI to just to the lower chamber??

How do you Pump It Up !!???