Rockshox Monarch RL... Doesn't fully extend?

[Gionnirocket]

So I got lucky in that rack just clears the suspension seat in the front and the fender in the rear when the suspension swings.. so I'm liking it and the ride better.

Removing the stock rack I lost my fender attachment points so I made up some brackets out of aluminum angle and used the rack mount points to attach them. Got lucky again and everything fits well.

I got the pannier side brackets for the rack but I'll never use panniers and didn't like the hang_low look so I lopped them short just to handle my little side tool bags.

Shock Parts should arrive tomorrow so time allowing I'll try to get the original shock repaired on Sunday

ps... If you enter your serial number on the RockShox service website... It'll give you some specifics on your shock.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Parts in...

... now in search of ambition.

 

[PCeBiker]

I don't know if mine is a solo air or debonair but curious...

I think I figured that out ??,..

I watched the video and there is an outer sleeve that unthreads with the air can underneath that also unthreads.

Then I watched a Syd video where she took a Fox Shock apart, and only had to unscrew the air can to get the shock apart.

So, I'm thinking the Solo Air doesn't have the outer Shell that I guess works as a second air chamber?


And,.. FWIW,
I'm still thinking that it might be possible, and even a smart idea, to unthread the valve core and put a few drops of fork oil in?

The guy in the video noted that the Debonair shock was completely dry inside.
I figure that the oil slowly gets pumped through the shock and adding oil through the air valve might get it at the start of the migration route?

Can you see if that makes any sense when you take your shock apart?



Another thing I noticed about the rebuild, is that it doesn't seem to include the rebound adjustment valve?

I would think that there are seals on the valve that could leak and the valve itself could wear and start to leak?

 

[PCeBiker]

Parts in...

... now in search of ambition.

I noticed that you bought what looks like standard issue 15 weight fork oil?
I assume that I don't need to buy anything "Special"?

The bottle says "For Oil Damped Suspension", but it looks like our Monarch shock is "Air Damped" ?

As far as I understand it, oil damping is when the oil is going through the damper valve, but I'm pretty sure that it's just air (or supposed to be just air?) that's going through the damper valve in our shock?

And, with that being said,.. I noticed that your shock is mounted horizontally and mine is mounted vertically.

Can you see if that makes any difference as far as whether or not fork oil is going through the damper valve? And how the oil might migrate past the seals and out of the shock?

I'm thinking that maybe the one way rebound valving, might only push the oil in one direction regardless of how the shock is mounted.
Could the shock actually be mounted upside down?
Would that flood the damper valve or something?



I'm thinking that simply unscrewing the air valve and putting in a few drops of fork oil every now and again might be a Stupid Simple Easy way to maintain your shock?

Of course, you wouldn't want to fill your shock with oil, cuz then you'd get hydro-lock, but my shock doesn't have a lockout feature (perhaps because it's Debonair not Solo?) so I could probably fill my shock with oil to lock it out.

I think that I might be able to swap out my damper adjustment with a different valve that allows me to lock it out?

 

[Gionnirocket]

Yes I came to the same conclusion about the Solo air watching the videos and when I entered my serial # on the RockShox website it confirmed my shock is a Solo air.
And yes I could try a few drops of oil in the valve but I want to inspect and clean as I'm on borrowed time as it is..

As for the oil I'm ASSuming suspension oil is suspension oil and selected by weight. When you read the description of the RockShox oil it states for all suspensions shocks and forks... And same goes for the Finish Line brand

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00157YGN4?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005543YIQ?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title

The oil going in the Monarch is 0.5ml to 1ml so it's not dampening but just some additional lubrication

 

[PCeBiker]

And yes I could try a few drops of oil in the valve but I want to inspect and clean as I'm on borrowed time as it is..

Maybe just put a few drops in before you take it apart to see what happens?

I'm mostly interested in how the air valve port "connects" to the damper valve and if it would put oil directly on top of the piston?
That may be all you need to do to free up your shock?


My shock is working fine, but I'd like your opinion about whether or not some oil in the valve port looks like it would help, or if it looks like a bad idea or simply won't work.

I'm wondering if my shock being mounted vertically means that the oil will pool around the O-rings and drain to one side with a shock mounted horizontally?
I wonder if that would mean anything? I'd think it would affect the way the oil seeps out and how it runs dry?

 

[Gionnirocket]

Well since you have the Debonair things are definitely different.
With the shock out it is now fully extended... The only way for me to know would be to reinstall it.
It's coming apart! and I'll let you know what I see.

Now you have me second guessing the oil... The manual says to use Maxima® Maxum4 Extra 15w 50... which is synthetic motor oil?!?!
I guess for now I can use the oil sample that's in the O_ring kit to be safe.

 

[PCeBiker]

The oil going in the Monarch is 0.5ml to 1ml so it's not dampening but just some additional lubrication

I noticed that he put ½ a ml on each side of the seal when installing the the can.

I'm thinking that in my case with my shock mounted vertically, I could put ½ a ml in the air port that would feed it to the top of the piston?
Then it could slowly migrate past the seal to the bottom of the can over time ?

 

[PCeBiker]

The manual says to use Maxima® Maxum4 Extra 15w 50... which is synthetic motor oil?!?!

That's another thing that's Really Expensive in Canada.
I'm going to try to find a Canadian equivalent.

I'm thinking that a readily available high quality synthetic 15 weight fork oil will more than good enough?

That Finish line oil is a reasonable price here.
I might go for that?

 

[PCeBiker]

And yes I could try a few drops of oil in the valve but I want to inspect and clean as I'm on borrowed time as it is..

Actually, that might not be a good idea because then you won't know if your air can was dry inside?

Maybe just see where the other end of the air port goes on your shock.
It's probably the same as my shock except my shock has the extra sleeve?

 

[Gionnirocket]

Actually, that might not be a good idea because then you won't know if your air can was dry inside?

Maybe just see where the other end of the air port goes on your shock.
It's probably the same as my shock except my shock has the extra sleeve?

I think it's impossible that my air can is dry as it's the Solo. I've never seen a drop of oil and I've always kept the sweep o_ring lubricated with Slickoleum.
I believe what they are referring to is the sleeve of the Debonair being dry underneath.
With the Debonair being more sophisticated... There's more to watch out for.

And the more I read and think about it... I'm sure the fork oil is just fine. You know it's seal safe... just match the 15w

 

[PCeBiker]

I think it's impossible that my air can is dry as it's the Solo. I've never seen a drop of oil and I've always kept the sweep o_ring lubricated with Slickoleum.

I'm thinking that with only ½ ml on either end of the air can, it can leak out slowly without being detected?
Especially if the O-ring is always lubricated?

I believe what they are referring to is the sleeve of the Debonair being dry underneath.

I remember another video, where he found no oil in the air can.

With the Debonair being more sophisticated... There's more to watch out for.

Yeah, I'm thinking my outer sleeve can dry out, and he didn't put oil in the air sleeve

And the more I read and think about it... I'm sure the fork oil is just fine. You know it's seal safe... just match the 15w

Another thing the guy said, is that Any Oil or Lube is better than none at all, so I'm seriously considering putting a few drops of oil in the air port.

I can actually unscrew the outer sleeve of my shock with it on the bike, add a few drops, and screw it back together.
It'd take two minutes.

An ounce of prevention is worth £80 in replacement seals.

 

[Gionnirocket]

I'd have to disagree that the oil could all leak out undetected the way I keep it clean.. Especially if it was oiled properly to begin with. The Slickoleum_izing the sweep is known to keep things cleaner and moving freely.
Clean /Put some on/Exercise a few times/wipe off excess.
I notice the difference every time I do it which is about every two weeks.

And correct you don't oil the sleeve.. You Slickoleum the O_rings. And that's what he meant by dry... there was no grease on the o_rings
And you don't even need an ounce of prevention... Just 1ml

 

[PCeBiker]

On a kinda related tangent,..

My Honda dirt bike from 1982 required me to remove the rear shock and clamp it in a vice to adjust the preload.

I managed to just reach in, grab the coil and rotate it.

I loosened the big lock ring at the top of the coil and the coil would rotate with some difficulty but would slip on the threaded coil mount, so I cleaned the threads on the shock and rubbed candle wax on the threads (dirt would stick to oil) and put a bit of glue between the coil and the cup, so the cup would rotate with coil.
Then I put wax on the other end of the coil so it would slip easier on that end where it's supposed to slip.

It was so easy to adjust my preload, that I could do it when I was out riding by just loosening the lock ring with the screwdriver that was in the provided tool kit.

 

[PCeBiker]

I'd have to disagree that the oil could all leak out undetected the way I keep it clean..

Well, I guess you'll find out when you open it up?

I'm going guess that you'll find no oil inside?

And correct you don't oil the sleeve.. You Slickoleum the O_rings. And that's what he meant by dry... there was no grease on the o_rings
And you don't even need an ounce of prevention... Just 1ml

That's why I'm thinking ½ml into the air port might be a good amount even if I've had no leakage.

I don't think that I would damage anything by adding ½ml cuz there's already supposed to be oil in there?
It may not be any different than adding a token? Only it's lube taking up volume instead?

Maybe instead of adding air tokens, I can just squirt oil in the valve to accomplish the same thing? It'd take 2 minutes.

So take a look where the air tokens would go and see if I can fill the space with fork oil instead.

I'm really curious as to what you find inside your air can.

 

[PCeBiker]

The manual says to use Maxima® Maxum4 Extra 15w 50... which is synthetic motor oil?!?!

One tidbit that I can add is that "15w 50" means that the oil behaves like 15 weight oil at normal operating temperatures, and behaves like a 50 weight oil when it's hot.

"Ordinary" 15 weight Dino oil thins out as it gets hotter.

I'm pretty sure that 15w synthetic oil behaves the same at all temperatures and has to be modified to have a viscosity range?

 

[Gionnirocket]

One tidbit that I can add is that "15w 50" means that the oil behaves like 15 weight oil at normal operating temperatures, and behaves like a 50 weight oil when it's hot.

"Ordinary" 15 weight Dino oil thins out as it gets hotter.

I'm pretty sure that 15w synthetic oil behaves the same at all temperatures and has to be modified to have a viscosity range?

I get that... And maybe I'm over simplifying it, but do you think my Monarch shock suffers the same temperature swing as an internal combustion engine does mid winter?
I can't imagine it ever getting 30°f above ambient, at least the way I ride... but maybe a long ride down a root filled mountain side at 50mph

The way my shock is mounted in the frame it's well protected from splatter... All I ever see on it is dust.

 

[PCeBiker]

I get that... And maybe I'm over simplifying it, but do you think my Monarch shock suffers the same temperature swing as an internal combustion engine does mid winter?

Exactly, that's why fork oil doesn't really need the temperature range, and synthetic oil isn't affected by temperature nearly as much as the old Dino oil.

Fork oil can get Really Hot though, but I'm not pounding down a mountain trail or doing back flips on my e-bike either, so the "50 Hour Service" thing may be more like 1000 hours for me?
Unless my oil leaked out.

I actually did find some oil dripping off the bottom of my shock, but I'm not sure what it was?
I had been spilling quite a bit of brake fluid lately, and it didn't taste sweet, so it wasn't antifreeze.

The shock should have a dipstick or a little window to see the oil level inside.

The way my shock is mounted in the frame it's well protected from splatter... All I ever see on it is dust.

I'm thinking about the oil in the shock and wondering if it "pools" along the lower part of the cylinder when it's mounted horizontally?

 

[PCeBiker]

ps... If you enter your serial number on the RockShox service website... It'll give you some specifics on your shock.

Hmmm ,..

It's not working??

Maybe it's a fake shock?
It sure looks real.

 

[PCeBiker]

Here we go,..

So it looks like Voltbike lied??

It's not a Debonair, it's a Solo Air?

So I should have the Exact Same Shock as you.