Replace Battery, Controller, or Something Else?

[harryS]

You're at 49.1V now, having dropped 2,6V today. That means you started at 51.7V, Two days ago, you dropped 2.4V, so you started ar 54.1V. In recap, that's 23 miles ridden, I'm guessing you used 2AH on the second ride, so that's 3AH in total?

49 volts is about 60% charge. Means you might get a comfortable 45 miles if the battery doesn't shut off. That's what we're waiting for, to see if draining the battery with the lights and recharging it has allowed it to charge fully.

Batteries are not linear, so the voltage drop is not proportional to the miles covered,

 

[ronaldrodgers]

@harryS- Thank you for your post.

"...so that's 3AH in total?" No, that was a total of 2AH. Which is why it doesn't make sense.

I drain the battery today on a 3 mile ride. The battery was so drained that the watts meter shutdown as well. So, I was able to get 31 miles on level 1 from the battery. I have "complete" drained the bike battery. The battery did not have enough power to charge a bike light. I am planning to do a 15 or 30 mile ride tomorrow morning. That would give me enough data to compare with recent and long ago records. Maybe, I will glean something about the AH issue.

 

[PCeBiker]

@harryS- Thank you for your post.
I drain the battery today on a 3 mile ride. The battery was so drained that the watts meter shutdown as well. So, I was able to get 31 miles on level 1 from the battery. I have "complete" drained the bike battery. The battery did not have enough power to charge a bike light. I am planning to do a 30 mile ride tomorrow morning. That would give me enough data.

Do you know the voltage of your battery when it shut down?
I'm pretty sure the BMS shuts down the USB port when it shuts down the battery.

The battery voltage may recover enough after a while to turn the battery back on.

If draining your battery down is helping to rebalance your cells, then the battery should start shutting down at a lower voltage than 49.1 Volts.

Can you watch your voltage as you ride to see what voltage your battery is now shutting down at?

If your battery is shutting down at a lower voltage, then you are getting more AH out of it.

You could still try to "force a balance" by leaving your battery plugged in for a half a day or more after the light turns green, unless your charger shuts off when the light turns green.
(My chargers switch to a constant 54.6 volts when the light turns green.)

 

[harryS]

With only another 3 miles added, sounds like it shut off around 48-49V, same as before, Battery didn't balance.

 

[ronaldrodgers]

The BMS has permitted the USB port to function after the battery stops working on the bike.
Sometimes the watts meter shuts down when the battery dies on the bike and other times it doesn't. One issue is that all my old data is from the watts meter and not from the multi-meter.
"Can you watch your voltage as you ride to see what voltage your battery is now shutting down at?" No, I need to stop. In fact I need to stop in the dark shade, because the meter is back lit.
"If your battery is shutting down at a lower voltage, then you are getting more AH out of it." That is something I need to look at.

I finished draining the battery last night. I am charging the battery now. Last time I the battery 8 hours last time, and today I will chrge it for closer to twelve hours. I will take a ride tomorrow on the bike.

 

[harryS]

If it is the same wattmeters I use, yeah, they lose all the data if the battery shuts off. I used to connect a 9V battery to the port on the side to power them. Nonetheless, you can briefly put the charger on to wake up the battery and then see what voltage it was. I prefer to put the wattmeter on the charger , and see what power went back into the battery/

Today looks like a good day for bike riding in the midwest, as it might touch 50F here. My wife and I are going out, but we were out on Tuesday when it was 35F. When you ride when it's that cold, you're supposed to have the batteries above 40=45F before recharging.

 

[ronaldrodgers]

Good morning,
Yesterday I charged the battery about 14 hours (8:30 am to 10:30 pm). Last night's multimeter reading was 54.1, this mornings reading 54.0. This morning's readings on the watts meter was 54.1V and 54.09Vm all other measurements (Wh, Ah, Wp, and Ap) were zero. I will go for a ride at Eagle Creek Park because the is more shade, making it easier to read the watts meter.

 

[ronaldrodgers]

I have ridden in temperatures below freezing. Maybe that is why I am having battery issues. I don't think I will be able to attach a battery to the watts meter before the ride. I was going through all my old battery data and in 2021 I was getting about 50+ miles on this battery.

 

[ronaldrodgers]

What a good day! Finshed riding 15+ miles. Didn't want to loss the data, so I kept the battery on when I put the bike on the rack. It is much lighter the my Rize MD. I have one thing to do tonight and tomorrow morning to post links to my data. I will need to clean it up first.

 

[ronaldrodgers]

Here is a link with my data.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1PWmmg8EBgjtTs3tsGT2UGf16oaZT7gJZ?usp=drive_link

 

[ronaldrodgers]

@Rome- I want to fix the bike, because it is a good bike and I really like it.

 

[PCeBiker]

@Rome - there's nothing wrong with his bike.
All he needs is a new battery at the most.

 

[PCeBiker]

I don't have the instrument to read the individual cells, the balance charger, nor the connector. I am looking at roughly about 1/2 for the cost of the battery to purchase those items. I need to locate the individual instruments, possibly rent them locally.

You are probably better off buying another battery.
Even if you do rebalance your cells, you're not going to bring the battery back to 100%.

Keep this post by @harryS in mind, and keep in mind that batteries do wear out especially crappy ones without a balancing BMS or quality cells inside.

,.. You do need to understand how to wire up a harness for it,. All of this is beyond what most people want to do though. The guy in the video is a confirmed DIY battery hobbyist,. I do wonder how his battery worked long term after he balanced it. If it got unbalanced because of failing or mismatched cells, rebalance might be temporary.

It would suck to spend half the cost of a battery to only get marginal results that don't last.

It is however, fun to buy stuff.

I bought the stuff and there's nothing wrong with my battery.
I did only have to spend $15 though.
I don't need the expensive flashy display.


PS,..
You might want to buy a bench power supply though?

I'm using this to charge my e-bike batteries. I charge my huge 25ah 48v battery at only two amps to help extend its service life.
I had to make a simple cord to plug my battery into my power supply.

It works just like a battery charger except instead of just a red and green light, it tells me the exact voltage and current while the battery is charging.
You have to set everything up manually and figure out how to use it properly and safely though.

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mLSOEcu

You can set it to 4.21 volts and less than half an amp to charge an individual cell, or you set it to 60 volts and set your Fricken battery on !!!

You need to be careful.

 

[ronaldrodgers]

Thank you everyone, especially harryS and PCeBiker! I like the advice and the gadgets.

I most likely do need a new battery. That is not going to happen, yet. I am going to examine the results of charging the battery for longer than 5 hours. The current battery is still functional for my use.

Background that you are not aware of is that I ride most everyday. My daily goal is 15-20 miles. Once a week I like to go on a long ride 30-40 miles. I do own a second ebike, that I do enjoy riding. It is great for longer rides.

Most likely I will buy a battery mount that matches my second bike’s battery. A battery mount will cost about $30 dollars. Installing the mount on my 2015 Raleigh would be straightforward and fairly easy.

I am not ending this thread, EBR may, but I won’t, not yet. I will keep draining the battery and charge longer than needed, around 12 hours. I will update the thread and spreadsheets every couple days.

So thank you again.

 

[ronaldrodgers]

I checked the battery this morning, it is still on the bike. All of the power level indicator lights are lit-up, 4 green and 1 red.

 

[PCeBiker]

Keep in mind that all you need is this,..

And this,..

And and a 2 pin connector like this,..

Then you can balance your battery yourself.

And the power supply can be used to charge any rechargeable battery (even a car battery) or power LEDS or DC motors ect... and it's got a high output USB quick charge output as well.

It's a really cool tool to have.

I've got more than a dozen different battery chargers and dozens of different plug in adapters/power supplies that I no longer need.
I don't have to search through my adapters to find the right voltage with enough current for what I need.
I just dial it up on my power supply.

You can cut the cord off of an unused adapter and use the cord and connector to attach to your bench power supply to run the device instead.
The bare wires from the scavenged cord screw onto plugs like these,..

https://a.aliexpress.com/_m0ZoBmg

 

[ronaldrodgers]

@ PCeBiker Thanks for the gadget ideas. I can't justify buying $100+ of gadgets for one project.

 

[ronaldrodgers]

Rode today for less than a block when battery shut off. All of the indicator lights were lit. Watt meter read 48.8?. I am going to drain the battery and recharge. My question is why are the power indicator lights still on when battery shutdown?

 

[PCeBiker]

Rode today for less than a block when battery shut off.

Was that from a fully charged battery?
If so, you've got something more going on than an unbalanced battery, unless you have a cell group that is COMPLETELY Shot.

All of the indicator lights were lit. Watt meter read 48.8?. I am going to drain the battery and recharge.

If you have a really bad cell group, it can trigger the BMS to shut down a fully charged battery.

My question is why are the power indicator lights still on when battery shutdown?

That may suggest a different problem unless your BMS cut-out and reset before your instruments lost power.

I'd suggest not trying to revive your battery any longer.
It seems to be making things worse?

Your charge and drain cycling may be killing your bad cell group, if that is what's shutting you down.

@harryS ,..
Any thoughts??

 

[ronaldrodgers]

My family is here for the holiday. I am not planning to post anything until they leave. I wish everyone happy holidays.