Radrover pas levels

[vincent]

I emailed radrover and explained level 2 PAS seemed way too fast

Scott wrote me back and ask how many watts it was using in level two and what the top speed was in level two

Just took the bike out on the flats and the following is what i sent to scott

As soon as i hear back will post his thoughts on this , if anyone else has different watt/mph numbers please let me know

My bike is the latest 2015 according to scott and even though my motor is stamped 500 watts it is a 750, it was stamped 500 to sell in europe or something










Now I see exactly what it is doing

------Level 1 looks like i get 50-150 watts under 5-6 mph and then as soon as i hit 5-6mph watts go to zero and stay there

So can barely use this, it is rarely on at all- is it only walk mode?


------Level 2 as soon as i push the up button goes to 750- 775 watts until it hits 13.5 i think
This is so fast and accelerates so quickly i can hardly get shifted up from like gear 3 to 7 , and 7 is the only gear in level 2 there is any resistance at all and not much then

It is just too much boost too fast

Hoping to get at least some exercise pedalling lol

Once about 12.5-13.5 mph level 2 holds about 200 watts

------Level 3 seems to jump to 750 watts or a little lower depending on how fast i am already going until it hits 15.5-16 mph then holds at 200 watts

Bike shop lowered the tire pressure too much for pavement and the bike was too squirrelly for me any faster than this
Did not have my pump so the other 2 levels will have to wait , although cannot see using them except in the hills


My take is looks like i am unpowered most of the time if using level 1
And then level 2 gets too much wattage i guess and takes off like a rocket

Either way looks like with it set like this the only way i can get any kind of workout at all is only use throttle...

Hope we can change it

really appreciate your time!
Thank you!

 

[walawn]

It's a heavy bike just to pedal. I'm lucky here in the DC area because we have lots of trails. When my bike was stock I would pedal for miles on Eco (level 2) at 15 mph roughly and get exercise but still be able to move the bikes weight thanks to the motor.

 

[sakau2007]

I believe the Pedal assists will give you power until you reach these mph:
PAS 1 - 12
PAS 2 - 14
PAS 3 - 16
PAS 4 - 18
PAS 5 - 20

...Or something like this. I don't have the manual in front of me but I do know it is listed in there.

If you are getting no assistance beyond 6mph on PAS 1, that is probably the issue. I know I get assistance with PAS 1 up to 10-12mph I believe.

 

[thatdude902]

I thought PAS 1 limit was based on watts. Someone said it was 200w.

 

[walawn]

I think it's based on speed as well

 

[vincent]

just heard from scott and if i understand correctly the 2016 bikes are controlled by power and speed -the 2015 was speed only
they have been working hard to adjust the controller stuff per feedback from customers

they are getting some new controllers in hopefully next week that may work to control my 2015 more like the 2016, as soon as they are in stock i will get one and try it
will post back the watt/speed numbers compared to my previous ones and my thoughts on how it does

very anxious to try this

also standover height for 2015 is 32.25
2016-is 31.25

 

[Jaegee]

This seems like an appropriate thread for 2 questions I had

When I ride with my RW at a PAS 2, I get well over the listed mph you guys are quoting. I'm still at about 19mph but my effort of pedaling is very very minimal. Is this just because I am on flat land and the support of PAS gets me going with minimal effort to reach the difference between PAS 2 of 14 and my actual 18-19mph speed?

When I am in a lower gear (harder to pedal at 0 PAS) then turn the pas up to 2-5, the motor seems to turn on and off sporadically. Is this because I am assisting too much and the motor keeps going above the assist level and turning off, then when I don't pedal as hard it turns back on? It's pretty irritating because the torque of the motor starting again doesn't affect much but it is noticeable and as mentioned, kind of annoying for a smooth ride. It seems to happen a lot more in PAS 5, I don't really need to be at this level often, I normally have been at 2, but would love to be in that level without the constant annoyance.

Thanks.

 

[vincent]

jargee what year is your rover?
i cant help you with the answers to that but 19mph in level 2 with watts still showing on the display as helping sounds really weird to me- i guess if you are pedalling to 19mph in level 2 that would be one thing, but my watts are cutting way down when i get close to 13 mph in level 2- and you said minimal power

i just went to radpowers site and sent an email through there, they responded in 24 hours
think you should do this, maybe something is malfunctioing

maybe some others with more ride time/experience will chime in

hoping to ride this evening and will try to see what happens if i try to pedal to 19mph in level 2....
i dont ever ride that fast so will have to see if i can do it lol

if you talk to rad power please let us know what they say

 

[Jaegee]

I'll do that. I just got the RW and didn't notice the watt levels. When I head to the gym I'll take a look to see if the watts are showing anything when I am going that fast. Perhaps it will read 0, I just didn't notice. Regardless I'll call them and ask about the motor on and off. If I purposly don't pedal fast, it works just fine, motor constantly stays controlled and smooth. It's only when I am actively trying to pedal (although it feels like low effort) does the motor seem to go to standby then kick on with some torque ever so often.

It's also my first experience on an electric bike, so maybe its completely normal. It's not messing with me at all, just isnt as smooth as it could be.

 

[vincent]

interesting

so yours should be a 2016 with the newer controller

when i contacted them about my pas level 2 being way too fast they ask me for watts and speed on each level, or at least the 3 i was trying to use 1-3

if you can get on a flat road with no traffic and really watch each level with the watts and speed you can get a good idea of what the bike is doing

mine goes to 775 watts as soon as i click up to level 2 and stays there until it is closing in on 12-13mph
once i watched all this in each level and tested stuff in each level i could totally see why my bikes was too fast in level 2

but my controller works off speed only because it is 2015, so it gives you almost full throttle until it hits that speed, to me this is useless for anything, too fast and i get zero workout

if the new controller does not fix this problem i will probably mod this bike with a cycle analyst that gives me way more control over the pas etc
but am really hoping not to have to do that...

please keep us up to date on what you find out etc

 

[Jaegee]

I didn't get a chance to call yet, apologies, I'll definitely update on Monday/Tuesday when I do. But I did test it a little bit.
pas 2: I was getting around 450ish watts
pas 5: I was getting around 750ish watts

In pas 2, it really didn't feel like I was putting much effort into my pedal, but still was going around 17-19mph. Perhaps since I'm on flat ground and as a bigger guy, it's just harder to get up to 14mph which is where the assist helps. But from 14-18mph maybe the little bit of effort I was putting in was getting that additional speed.

In pas 5, I saw the watts get to 750ish, then go to 0, then after a few pedals it would go up to 750 again, then keep doing this cycle. When I dropped the larger gearing from 3 down to 2, it got a little better and from 2 to 1 it got much easier of course, but I still found it going from 750 to 000 back to 750 (admittedly it did this less frequently). The torque of the engine turning off and on felt more seamless the less my legs were putting in effort.

I can't stress it enough though that it really didn't feel like I was putting much of any effort into my pedaling at all in the above diagnostics. I was just kind of moving my legs in circles as slow as possible to registry that I was pedalling, so it is still worth a call. I'd expect in pas 5 the watts stay at 750 and never go to 000. That way the engine is always running and it doesn't feel as clunky when I am pedaling. But I'll see what radpower says when I call.

Just offering a bit more information in the interim.

 

[vincent]

Thanks for the feedback, we are headed out to ride now and hoping we dont get rained out

This is my worries about buying a radmini, i want my bikes to help me a litte in level 1 and 2 pas but not a lot, want to be able to exercise some

Hoping the radmini will not be crusing along with very little pedal work in level 2

I plan to write rad power about this and get some more info, will post wht they say

 

[mbirds]

This hasn't been an issue with my mini, for what it's worth. I can get a workout if desired. I'll do some experimenting and report data when I get a chance.

 

[vincent]

Thank you mbirds

Rode today in payson and we rode in some pretty hilly areas, using pas2 in this stuff here and there was ok

But if i got to the bottom of a hill and needed to make a turn and forgot level 2 was on it would shoot me forward when i did not need it

Mostly riding the bike unpowered and using throttle on hills etc

Imo level 1-2 should be slower/medium speed/power and then things should start stepping up

Obviously we want the power but when we need it

Will be interesting to hear what the watts/speed is on the diff levels of pas on the mini

Really do not want to get a new bike and have to cut up the wires to put in a CA
If it comes to that i may get something else

Would love to ride a mini before i buy one, but no way to do that

Seems most of you guys are on the other side of the country, lol



Here is a good question for some of you more experienced riders

The mini would be more for friends- some of them shorter women to ride off road with me- 5 ft-5 ft 4
A lot of them are novice riders or have not ridden in 20-30 years

What i am finding in looking for safe, slow road type places to ride is there are a lot of gravel forest type roads to ride up in northern az, but we need either more mtn bike type bikes with full suspension or fat tires

These roads look maintained but sure there could be some washboarding , washed out areas with sand, potholes etc

My thinking is fat tires do better and are more stable for this kind of riding , than say 2-2.5 inch wide mtn bikes ......

Do you think smaller women and more nervous riders will feel more secure on gravel/uneven terrain with the mini or a 2 inch wide fs mtn bike?
We will not be going fast, probably 10-15 mph max on straightaways and much slower in curves , rougher road terrain etc

I felt the rover was really stable the first time i rode it, that is what stood out to me

Today i rode over some curbs slowly and on/off the sidewalk/smooth concrete to gravel and back several times and the rover does not skid, lose traction, slip or really even notice changing terrains like that
I feel this would be a good thing for more novice riders that are unsure

My easy motion street with skinny tires would not have handled those changes well, at least not with me riding it
Maybe more experienced riders handle that stuff fine, but i dont trust that bike for anything like that

Does great on pavement but not gravel, sand etc

Any thoughts on this before i spend another $1700 would be great lol

 

[grench]

Thank you mbirds

Rode today in payson and we rode in some pretty hilly areas, using pas2 in this stuff here and there was ok

But if i got to the bottom of a hill and needed to make a turn and forgot level 2 was on it would shoot me forward when i did not need it

Mostly riding the bike unpowered and using throttle on hills etc

Imo level 1-2 should be slower/medium speed/power and then things should start stepping up

Obviously we want the power but when we need it

Will be interesting to hear what the watts/speed is on the diff levels of pas on the mini

Really do not want to get a new bike and have to cut up the wires to put in a CA
If it comes to that i may get something else

Would love to ride a mini before i buy one, but no way to do that

Seems most of you guys are on the other side of the country, lol



Here is a good question for some of you more experienced riders

The mini would be more for friends- some of them shorter women to ride off road with me- 5 ft-5 ft 4
A lot of them are novice riders or have not ridden in 20-30 years

What i am finding in looking for safe, slow road type places to ride is there are a lot of gravel forest type roads to ride up in northern az, but we need either more mtn bike type bikes with full suspension or fat tires

These roads look maintained but sure there could be some washboarding , washed out areas with sand, potholes etc

My thinking is fat tires do better and are more stable for this kind of riding , than say 2-2.5 inch wide mtn bikes ......

Do you think smaller women and more nervous riders will feel more secure on gravel/uneven terrain with the mini or a 2 inch wide fs mtn bike?
We will not be going fast, probably 10-15 mph max on straightaways and much slower in curves , rougher road terrain etc

I felt the rover was really stable the first time i rode it, that is what stood out to me

Today i rode over some curbs slowly and on/off the sidewalk/smooth concrete to gravel and back several times and the rover does not skid, lose traction, slip or really even notice changing terrains like that
I feel this would be a good thing for more novice riders that are unsure

My easy motion street with skinny tires would not have handled those changes well, at least not with me riding it
Maybe more experienced riders handle that stuff fine, but i dont trust that bike for anything like that

Does great on pavement but not gravel, sand etc

Any thoughts on this before i spend another $1700 would be great lol

I really enjoy your posts! I think a common theme from my perspective is the power delivery timing. It appears to me there is a simple solution go with Throttle only! You will have complete control of when power is applied and how much power is applied. It is an interesting perspective from my side...I perfer a torque sensor only. I am a little lazy and used the throttle too much (when I had one). Neither of my current bikes have a throttle. Stromer ST1 Platinum and a Bulls Outlaw.

Thoughts?

 

[vincent]

You might be right grench
actually think i use less e power when using throttle than pas..... But have not gotten to test this yet

Think i am too lazy to twist the throttle unless i need it lol

My easy motion street has torque and it is much smoother, not perfect but a lot of that may be my cadence
And really i have not gotten to ride it consistently enough to even get happy with my seat and handlebars yet
This summer weather in sourthern az is not fun lol

Am lucky if i get to ride a half day once every 8-9 days after hauling the bikes 200-300 miles

think from reading your posts and watching some of your videos you ride a lot different than me, a lot faster and maybe more on fast roads...

When i ride by myself in tucson on the loop etc i tend to ride pretty consistent and more for a workout

But so many people want to try the ebikes and i want to show them to others so people know they are out there

That kind of riding with friends i dont want any of the bikes going to 775 watts in level 2 pas, it would be dangerous
And yes i start everyone out on the throttle only prodeco but it would be nice if we could use pas some too




I am actually having my cheap cemoto bike modded with a torque sensor and CA from grin right now
In theory i will be able to set all the pas levels where i want them and change them if i am not happy....

Anxious to see how that bike is once it is done, maybe next weekend....
That may be the way to go on all of them for me....

But i am not the only one who complained about the pas response on the radrover, that is why the controller was changed in the 2016 to work off speed and power

My late 2015 is only off speed and it has the old controller
No matter what i dont think any bike should be wide open throttle in level 2, that makes no sense , seems that would be for level 5

Will be interesting to see how the new rad power controller does on mine, wish it would get to seatlle so i can order it!

 

[finerbiner]

I have a RW and a RR and the controllers work differently for sure.

The RW gives you about 270, 460, 550 for PAS 1,2,3. You get to add whatever you want right up to 25MPH. That is not 100% but basically true.

The RR zooms you up to a certain speed based on the PAS level. It then cuts out when it gets there. It is hard to help it much.

The RW goes farther on a charge because of this. I like the way it works better. I usuall use PAS 1, sometimes 2. I add throttle on steeper hills. My wife often has to have the RR in PAS 4 just to keep up.

I would switch the RR to work like the RW for sure if I could.

 

[mbirds]

The RW system sounds great. On my RM, which I assume is like the RR, you have to compensate for the speed limit system with very precise use of the gears in order to assist more effectively. It is cadence based, so you have to find the right pedaling rpm for the speed and effort you want.

For those of you wanting to slow a RM or RR down, in the lower PAS levels try slowing your cadence by choosing the higher gear. Works for me but I know there's a lot of variations in models and years out there.

 

[vincent]

on my RR the slightest bit of moving the pedals forward kicks it in fast, it does not seem to be related to my cadence, any pressure does it

but agree i do keep it in the 5-7 gears or there is zero resistance most of the time

finerbiner what year is your RR?

----and an update on the new controller to try from rad power is that it still has not made it to seattle yet

will get it in and report as soon as it gets here
lets hope the new controller works more like the radwagon

 

[finerbiner]

I got both of my bikes in April this year.