Pro's and Con's retrofitting electric existing bike?
- Thread starter Markg2
- Start date
Way too little info on the first part of your question...the big one being what do you intend to use the bike for? This makes a big difference. The second part of your question about a shop that sells and installs these kits...I'll be contrarian here and say that adding an aftermarket kit to an existing bike should ideally involve the owner of the bike doing the install. Why?...most add-on motors will often require some fiddling as time goes on with hardware, maybe programming if available, and other little issues that while not monumental can help go a long way in knowing and enjoying an add-on motor kit.
You sound like you'd be better served in buying a ready made, complete bike from a manufacturer that fits your specific needs. Back on the issue of a shop that will install an aftermarket kit, there is some liability that a good many reputable shops may not be willing to take on. Yes, there is always some liability for any bike shop, even when they are selling their factory brand(s)...leaving axles loose, handlebar stem not tightened properly, etc. However, with the aftermarket motor deal, the bike is probably not theirs, the bike was never intended to have a motor, and the warranty on much of the install may not even exist. This may sound trivial to some, but to a bike shop owner, this kind of deal can be a real can of worms not worth the trouble, money, or the exposure.
The shop I work at will not touch these homemade rigs except for issues like fixing a flat and maybe a few very small incidentals, and depending on some of the weird designs we've seen come in, the owner may have to remove the wheel...and in some cases we've just refused to work on one. My personal mountain bike with an aftermarket mid-drive doesn't have that kind of complexity, but some of these homemade rigs can get weird. People with homemade rigs should be able to work on their own setups, and this is why my first advice early on in this post stands.
This is not to say you can't or won't find a shop somewhere that does this on a regular basis or will make an exception depending on your circumstances. I still say if you feel mechanically challenged to avoid doing the install yourself, buy a complete ebike package in the category that fits your needs.
You sound like you'd be better served in buying a ready made, complete bike from a manufacturer that fits your specific needs. Back on the issue of a shop that will install an aftermarket kit, there is some liability that a good many reputable shops may not be willing to take on. Yes, there is always some liability for any bike shop, even when they are selling their factory brand(s)...leaving axles loose, handlebar stem not tightened properly, etc. However, with the aftermarket motor deal, the bike is probably not theirs, the bike was never intended to have a motor, and the warranty on much of the install may not even exist. This may sound trivial to some, but to a bike shop owner, this kind of deal can be a real can of worms not worth the trouble, money, or the exposure.
The shop I work at will not touch these homemade rigs except for issues like fixing a flat and maybe a few very small incidentals, and depending on some of the weird designs we've seen come in, the owner may have to remove the wheel...and in some cases we've just refused to work on one. My personal mountain bike with an aftermarket mid-drive doesn't have that kind of complexity, but some of these homemade rigs can get weird. People with homemade rigs should be able to work on their own setups, and this is why my first advice early on in this post stands.
This is not to say you can't or won't find a shop somewhere that does this on a regular basis or will make an exception depending on your circumstances. I still say if you feel mechanically challenged to avoid doing the install yourself, buy a complete ebike package in the category that fits your needs.
soyabean
Active Member
- Region
- Canada
I would only do it if I had sentimental/nostalgic value to the existing bike.
I have many bikes in my collection that I would love to e-convert. Perhaps next year or so after the post-pandemic supply chain dust settles.
It's just way lot cheaper and less time consuming to buy an ebike I like that suits my daily needs.
I have many bikes in my collection that I would love to e-convert. Perhaps next year or so after the post-pandemic supply chain dust settles.
It's just way lot cheaper and less time consuming to buy an ebike I like that suits my daily needs.
harryS
Well-Known Member
The cost of an ebike conversion these days exceeds what you will pay for a bike like the Ecotric Vortex, which used to be $659. If you have to pay someone $200 to put your kit together, then you could have bought a nicer bike, like a Lectric XP 2.0.
There are some cases when it is cheaper to be converting an existing bike. TNC says he has a mid drive on a mountain bike. I put one on an existing bike too and it was 40% of the cost of a factory mid drive back in 2016. If you have a recumbent trike, you can often motorize for less than the cost of a built one. And if you have a very light bike, you can keep it relatively light with the right choices. Finally, if you want to run at 30+ mph, which is not allowed for factory ebikes, then you build.
There are some cases when it is cheaper to be converting an existing bike. TNC says he has a mid drive on a mountain bike. I put one on an existing bike too and it was 40% of the cost of a factory mid drive back in 2016. If you have a recumbent trike, you can often motorize for less than the cost of a built one. And if you have a very light bike, you can keep it relatively light with the right choices. Finally, if you want to run at 30+ mph, which is not allowed for factory ebikes, then you build.
I'm just wasting time this AM, feel free to ignore.
Agree with the posts above, if you can't or don't want to do it yourself it would probably be best to buy a purpose built bike.
That said, bicycles are such simple and easy to work on machines that just about any able person can perform virtually any service if they are willing. There are many reliable (unfortunately many unreliable) online resources that show how to do everything, Park tool videos among others.
An important advantage of fitting a kit is that you can use a bike that you might already have and like so you don't have to add another bike to your stable if you don't want to. Also a converted bike can easily be reverted to original if desired at any point.
You don't say what kind of bike or performance you are looking for but if the goal is to just add assist similar to what a branded mid drive can do then a Tongsheng TSDZ2 might be a good choice because it offers similar torque sensing assist. I've converted 5 different bikes with a Tongsheng, for 3 of them it couldn't have been a simpler process. Two folding bikes that I converted required some frame work which was easy to do.
I didn't buy my kits from recycles-ebikes but they sell a kit complete with a seat bag battery for $500 which sounds interesting but doesn't appear to be in stock currently. I prefer a small display
or you can buy one of their other batteries
One similar to what pedaluma uses on his conversions
or another seat post variant
I use much less expensive but similar capacity batteries
Agree with the posts above, if you can't or don't want to do it yourself it would probably be best to buy a purpose built bike.
That said, bicycles are such simple and easy to work on machines that just about any able person can perform virtually any service if they are willing. There are many reliable (unfortunately many unreliable) online resources that show how to do everything, Park tool videos among others.
An important advantage of fitting a kit is that you can use a bike that you might already have and like so you don't have to add another bike to your stable if you don't want to. Also a converted bike can easily be reverted to original if desired at any point.
You don't say what kind of bike or performance you are looking for but if the goal is to just add assist similar to what a branded mid drive can do then a Tongsheng TSDZ2 might be a good choice because it offers similar torque sensing assist. I've converted 5 different bikes with a Tongsheng, for 3 of them it couldn't have been a simpler process. Two folding bikes that I converted required some frame work which was easy to do.
I didn't buy my kits from recycles-ebikes but they sell a kit complete with a seat bag battery for $500 which sounds interesting but doesn't appear to be in stock currently. I prefer a small display
or you can buy one of their other batteries
One similar to what pedaluma uses on his conversions
or another seat post variant
I use much less expensive but similar capacity batteries
RunForTheHills
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
For me the reason to install a kit was to have a fun project and customize the components they way that I wanted them. I liked working on bikes long before I started down the ebike path. If you can get what you want in a purpose built ebike and don't want to service it yourself, that is the way to go. I don't think you will save any money paying someone else to install a kit. However, @PedalUma or @tomjasz could probably speak better to that. I spent way more money on my project than a new ebike would have cost. It was a frame up build and I bought all the components and frame new. I do plan on adding a kit to my non-Electric Brompton and that will end up costing less (kit + Brompton) than the Electric Brompton I bought for my wife.
I really appreciate the time taken by you guys. Here's more detail--
We live in Evergreen--no level ground. Both my wife and I (retired) regularly exercise just not using a bike--net elevation gain on any path too much. We test rode ebikes in Denver last week and rented the same bikes yesterday and rode Cherry Creek/REI. Provided the shop allows, we will again rent but this time fold, drive to Evergreen. She will likely buy the Fatte folding (I looked up the Lectric XP 2.0 and it's ~1/3 the $ of the Fatte?). She needs a 'sit up straight' bike with a low step through and their folding does both.
OTOH, I need a lean forward (back). Given the shop's rental availables... I too rented the folding with Connie to get an idea what the electric assist was like. Since her mountain bike is just hanging on the garage wall, I figured it made sense to convert it. From the perspective of not knowing much about bikes, I assumed an ebike just adds the motor/battery/electronics to an ordinary bike...why not? From what you all are saying so far, maybe not?
Mark
We live in Evergreen--no level ground. Both my wife and I (retired) regularly exercise just not using a bike--net elevation gain on any path too much. We test rode ebikes in Denver last week and rented the same bikes yesterday and rode Cherry Creek/REI. Provided the shop allows, we will again rent but this time fold, drive to Evergreen. She will likely buy the Fatte folding (I looked up the Lectric XP 2.0 and it's ~1/3 the $ of the Fatte?). She needs a 'sit up straight' bike with a low step through and their folding does both.
OTOH, I need a lean forward (back). Given the shop's rental availables... I too rented the folding with Connie to get an idea what the electric assist was like. Since her mountain bike is just hanging on the garage wall, I figured it made sense to convert it. From the perspective of not knowing much about bikes, I assumed an ebike just adds the motor/battery/electronics to an ordinary bike...why not? From what you all are saying so far, maybe not?
Mark
Attachments
RunForTheHills
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
I am not a big fan of the fat tired folding bikes, but some people like them. The fat tires are useful for sand or snow, but otherwise add drag and the bike won't be very easy to pedal without the motor. For your very hilly area, you might want to consider a bike with a mid-drive motor as hub motors can overheat on long hills. On the other hand a folding bike is easier to throw into the back of the car and drive someplace else to ride. Or you can get a bike rack for the back of the car.
My wife has the same issues. I had converted her Dahon Briza which is low step but she wanted even lower so she doesn't ride that bike anymore (I removed the motor and put it on another folder).
Here was that conversion (after this picture I cleaned up the wiring some and put the battery in a handlebar bag)
Now I have that motor on a Walmart folder that I've had for years.
A bike mechanic who knows what he or she is doing should be able to install a mid drive conversion in well under an hour but there might not be bike shops interested in doing this type of work and it probably wouldn't be cheap.
An Ariel Rideal looks like a nice rear hub motor bike for $1000 and might be better than converting the bike you have.
I agree that a Lectric 2.0 looks like a much better value than the Penalosa Fatte.
Markg2, the MTB pictured in your attachment is a perfect candidate for a mid-drive if you go that route. There's plenty of room for a frame mounted battery in the diamond triangle, and the downtube makes a straight entry into the bottom bracket. Still like I said above, if you don't desire to do the install yourself, I think a factory/manufacturer available ebike ready-to-go will be better. But as someone else stated, if you have lots of hills, even if they are paved, you and maybe the motor will appreciate a mid-drive with gears. Lots of variables to consider.
harryS
Well-Known Member
I think a mid drive is less effort to install than a hub motor, having done some of each. Granted. you need two bike specific tools ($10 each) to remove the pedals/axle, and sometimes there's some casting slag inside that blocks the mid drive. However, the later is easily filed off, and you could get the bike shop, if they are not busy, to remove the pedals.
On the plus side, there is no need to determine where to put the electronics. They're inside the motor. I've got a mid drive to install myself, but I was enjoying riding the donor bike around (not too far) w/o a motor, I've procrastined. Yeah, and there's about a month of other chores....
On the plus side, there is no need to determine where to put the electronics. They're inside the motor. I've got a mid drive to install myself, but I was enjoying riding the donor bike around (not too far) w/o a motor, I've procrastined. Yeah, and there's about a month of other chores....
soyabean
Active Member
- Region
- Canada
I see you have never worked in a LBS as a bike wrench before. Majority of our repairs are inner tubes. People don't even have the basic tools to install a saddle on a post.
What you wrote can also apply to home plumbing, auto mechanices, home renovations. Yes, it all appears easy, but few do it.
PedalUma
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Petaluma, CA
So true! People will call the appliance repair service when a nickel is sideways in the washing machine out-flow sump collector. It takes three minutes to diagnose and fix. They cannot hang a picture or swap a capacitor in a fridge. One guy I knew was so proud he hung a hammock that came to work the next day with a concussion, shaved patch and stiches. There is a certain pride and noble status in acting the role of damsel in distress. When I was a banking executive in a suit I would be asked to change the 20' high bulb in the ladies room because, "We all have heals and nails." Then golf was ladies only because guys, I was the only one anywhere around, have advantaged status. The guy who busted his head, by the way, had manicures, moose, and too much cologne. A true noble aloof to doing menial tasks.
Same is true for me. I've done the Tongsheng mid drive installation several times now but uninterrupted I have removed it from one bike and installed into another in under an hour using less than $20 worth of bike specific tools. It seems to take days to get a hub drive fully installed the way I want it (I've done this on several bikes also) because there always seems to be some niggle or complication, some bikes easier than others. I end up leaving the installation incomplete for days before getting back to it and often not pleased with the results especially the mess of wires and controller location. Mid drive is a much more simple and clean installation.
RunForTheHills
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
I pay someone else to rake the leaves and pull the weeds. It is a simple task that I could do myself, but I don't want to.
Deacon Blues
Well-Known Member
Pedaluma, do you cut/make your own cables so they join without excess wiring? That's the main thing I dislike about most of the DIY installs (not yours) I see on Youtube is the excess wiring.
m@Robertson
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
Biggest thing about doing a conversion is having a bike that suits the conversion, and being mechanically inclined so your attention to detail on such projects will let you NOT build an abomination with a skewed chain line, or any number of rookie moves. By and large all of the problems new builders have are associated with sloppy work.
The careful builder gets it figured out, either by paying attention, or asking around before doing something irrevocable. Like in the First Rule of Gunsmithing: Its a lot easier to file metal off than it is to put it back on again.
If you aren't up for a project and don't love to work in the garage evenings on your bikes... give serious thought to just buying one.
@Markg2 I see you are in the Denver/Cherry Creek area. I strongly suggest you visit Ebikes USA's Cherry Creek showroom. I know the owner, Houshmand Moarefi, and he is one of the good guys. He got his start as a rider who upgraded his own ebikes and eventually quit his job and started a business doing what he loves. His company is committed to education and helping new riders. If you want to learn about ebikes and your options, I suggest you go by his shop and play stump-the-chump with them
The careful builder gets it figured out, either by paying attention, or asking around before doing something irrevocable. Like in the First Rule of Gunsmithing: Its a lot easier to file metal off than it is to put it back on again.
If you aren't up for a project and don't love to work in the garage evenings on your bikes... give serious thought to just buying one.
@Markg2 I see you are in the Denver/Cherry Creek area. I strongly suggest you visit Ebikes USA's Cherry Creek showroom. I know the owner, Houshmand Moarefi, and he is one of the good guys. He got his start as a rider who upgraded his own ebikes and eventually quit his job and started a business doing what he loves. His company is committed to education and helping new riders. If you want to learn about ebikes and your options, I suggest you go by his shop and play stump-the-chump with them
Evergreen - West of Denver ~25 minutes - mountains - in Denver & surrounding all the time. Evergreen is more like a non-suburban suburb<g>.Biggest thing about doing a conversion is having a bike that suits the conversion, and being mechanically inclined so your attention to detail on such projects will let you NOT build an abomination with a skewed chain line, or any number of rookie moves. By and large all of the problems new builders have are associated with sloppy work.
The careful builder gets it figured out, either by paying attention, or asking around before doing something irrevocable. Like in the First Rule of Gunsmithing: Its a lot easier to file metal off than it is to put it back on again.
If you aren't up for a project and don't love to work in the garage evenings on your bikes... give serious thought to just buying one.
@Markg2 I see you are in the Denver/Cherry Creek area. I strongly suggest you visit Ebikes USA's Cherry Creek showroom. I know the owner, Houshmand Moarefi, and he is one of the good guys. He got his start as a rider who upgraded his own ebikes and eventually quit his job and started a business doing what he loves. His company is committed to education and helping new riders. If you want to learn about ebikes and your options, I suggest you go by his shop and play stump-the-chump with them
Re Ebikes USA - appreciated big time. I'll be calling Houshmand for an appointment on Monday. Again... thanks! I don't suppose the gentleman has an easier to pronounce, generally familiar nickname? I suck with names.
The Penalosa (including the 10lb battery & wider rims) is at least 10lbs lighter than the Lectric for basically similar profiles. I'm thinking the Lectric must be steel vs. aluminum. Agreed?
Similar threads
