Possible to upgrade R&M Delite Rohloff from mechanical to electronic gearshifter ?

[Alaskan]

I did just read your "case in point" which is not really on point for this discussion This guy is trying to force the Rohloff through gear changes without backing off of the cranks when shifting...not how it is done. Also, I never ride without gloves, and full fingered ones at that. For me that is like riding without a helmet. The first part of a person to hit the pavement in a fall is usually the hands. I want mine protected.

 

[Deleted member 18083]

The current twist shifter is not the original model, IIRC.

Double Helix, you recall correctly. The gripshift for my 2007 Rohloff had a "rounded triangle" cross section that I found somewhat uncomfortable.

It (an electronic shifter) was available as an aftermarket kit some years ago for mechanical bikes. It had a different name, but it does not look too different. I can’t remember the details.

Perhaps, the earlier electronic shifter was the Shiftezy which is still available as a made-to-order option but will set you back around US$600. To me, the Shiftezy has the chunky appearance of a proof-of-concept alpha prototype.

 

[Dmitri]

Not sure why you find the manual Rohloff shifter so wanting. Has yours been problematic from day one? Mine has almost 2000 miles on it now and it works just fine.

In fact I wouldn't trade it for an E-14 until they offer it with manual override/mode in the event of firmware glitch or battery issues. I want to see some significant history of reliability before I rely on it.

The shifter is, in a word, terrible. There are countless problems, including:

• The wires exit the shifter at a 90° angle. I dare you to find one grip shifter other than Rohloff where wires exit at a 90° angle. This is just insane, I don't know who came up with the idea, I've never seen anything like this. This results in extreme pressure on the cable housing next to any sanely-designed handlebar. One of my two housings are already damaged because of this and it's only a matter of time before it 'goes'.
• The shifting is extremely imprecise. First, the shifter doesn't stay in place, it actually wobbles around the gear you're in. When you shift, the feedback that you have, in fact, shifted is very weak and in winter, with thick gloves on, you don't even feel that you've shifted anywhere.
• Bizarrely enough, the shifter shifts better if you get it wet. I don't know if I'm meant to regularly oil the shifter, but it's annoying to be in this situation.
• The shifter completely fails in winter. The bike just goes insane, at around −20°C, not only can I not feel the shifts but the amount of misfires where the shifting slips into neutral or goes into a wrong gear (which can also happen if you shift halfway) is just crazy.
• If I can avoid running two thick wires through the entire frame, I'd jump on the opportunity. My rear left chainstay has 4(!) wires on the underside — two Rohloff ones, hydraulic line and Bosch speed sensor.

As far as the battery going dead, there's now new regulation coming in (in Europe, at least) that requires the bike to have 2 hours of running light at all times. I suspect this margin is enough to shift Rohloff even though, to be perfectly honest, a Bosch+Rohloff combination with the battery dead is next to unmovable, especially on a 27kg bike. Which explains why I prefer Yamaha

 

[Alaskan]

@Dmitri Thanks for the detail and background for your preferences. My shifter does not have what I would define as excessive slop. While there is a tiny bit of wiggle room if I rotate the shifter gently the little ravens beak points precisely at the middle of each gear number. There is a firm detent or index for each gear and it takes little to moderate effort to shift gears. Granted I have not yet used this shifter in the winter, however the winters here are no nearly so extreme as what you experience in mother Russia.

Here is a photo of my shifter. Does it appear to be any different than the one you have been using?

 

[Dmitri]

@Dmitri

Here is a photo of my shifter. Does it appear to be any different than the one you have been using?

Yes, that's the shifter I have, too.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

@Dmitri ... I agree that the feedback on the shifter when you are wearing heavy gloves is limited, and I wouldn't be surprised if you had mechanical problems with the shifter at extremely low temperatures -- if you dig around on the documentation on their site (rohloff.de) they talk about using different hub oil at temperatures below -15C. Their FAQ page discusses low-temperature shifting issues and how to mitigate them.

From some of the other problems that you've described, I am starting to suspect that something on your shifter wasn't assembled correctly or was damaged when shipped to you. That's based on the fact that I've used three different Rohloff-equipped bikes going back about a dozen years and haven't ever seen anything like the failures you've described with the shifter.

 

[Moesi]

What exactly is so bad at the mechanical Shifter??



This is my first Rohloff. I have it since July and loved it from begin!
Meanwhile I made 2000km (1250 Miles) in the Swiss mountains and still love it

I asked if an upgrade to the E14 is possible. But they said no, because the software.
The strange thing is: When I check the setup of my motor with the BOSCH diagnostic tools, I can see already all setting options of the E14....!

I will wait until the warranty time is over and then I can do what I want. If the E-14 shows that it is reliable and save like the mechanical version , then I may do my upgrade myself.

Best regards
Stephan

 

[webcurl]

The shifter is, in a word, terrible. There are countless problems, including:

• The wires exit the shifter at a 90° angle. I dare you to find one grip shifter other than Rohloff where wires exit at a 90° angle. This is just insane, I don't know who came up with the idea, I've never seen anything like this. This results in extreme pressure on the cable housing next to any sanely-designed handlebar. One of my two housings are already damaged because of this and it's only a matter of time before it 'goes'.
• The shifting is extremely imprecise. First, the shifter doesn't stay in place, it actually wobbles around the gear you're in. When you shift, the feedback that you have, in fact, shifted is very weak and in winter, with thick gloves on, you don't even feel that you've shifted anywhere.
• Bizarrely enough, the shifter shifts better if you get it wet. I don't know if I'm meant to regularly oil the shifter, but it's annoying to be in this situation.
• The shifter completely fails in winter. The bike just goes insane, at around −20°C, not only can I not feel the shifts but the amount of misfires where the shifting slips into neutral or goes into a wrong gear (which can also happen if you shift halfway) is just crazy.
• If I can avoid running two thick wires through the entire frame, I'd jump on the opportunity. My rear left chainstay has 4(!) wires on the underside — two Rohloff ones, hydraulic line and Bosch speed sensor.

As far as the battery going dead, there's now new regulation coming in (in Europe, at least) that requires the bike to have 2 hours of running light at all times. I suspect this margin is enough to shift Rohloff even though, to be perfectly honest, a Bosch+Rohloff combination with the battery dead is next to unmovable, especially on a 27kg bike. Which explains why I prefer Yamaha

I live in Australia, i have to research work arounds/solutions for temperatures over 45 Celcius (not the norm), motors and electronics are especially critical at these temperatures, also corrosion from the sea and generally dry conditions.
If you're in Russia and constant -20 temps (not the norm across the world), then i'd consider you'd have to research that too.
And as someone else has since mentioned, this is on the Rohloff website - thinning down the oil, etc.
The wires exiting the shifter at 90 degrees seems logical to me and i think there is the least strain on the cables this way. Don't know how yours get damaged.
My manual shifter has worked perfectly fine, there is a bit of give but i'm used to it. I hardly every look at it to find out what gear i'm in.

 

[webcurl]

I live in Australia, i have to research work arounds/solutions for temperatures over 45 Celcius (not the norm), motors and electronics are especially critical at these temperatures, also corrosion from the sea and generally dry conditions.
If you're in Russia and constant -20 temps (not the norm across the world), then i'd consider you'd have to research that too.
And as someone else has since mentioned, this is on the Rohloff website - thinning down the oil, etc.
The wires exiting the shifter at 90 degrees seems logical to me and i think there is the least strain on the cables this way. Don't know how yours get damaged.
My manual shifter has worked perfectly fine, there is a bit of give but i'm used to it. I hardly every look at it to find out what gear i'm in.

After looking at your setup, i'm guessing in your temperatures you have thick, warm gloves and i can now see that these may be interfering with the brake handle and shifter, maybe rotate them around so that the brake handle is not in-between the 2 shifter cables?

 

[Dmitri]

After looking at your setup, i'm guessing in your temperatures you have thick, warm gloves and i can now see that these may be interfering with the brake handle and shifter, maybe rotate them around so that the brake handle is not in-between the 2 shifter cables?

That doesn't really affect things much. I could move it above or below but my hand/glove doesn't intersect the cables. The very fact that the cables exit at 90° is where the problem is... it's not meant to go like this. Look at any grip shifter on the market — they all have an exit at an angle.

 

[djsb]

I have just asked R&M about a possible future E-14 upgrade. I have been told that this is not being offered to the market as Bosch will not allow firmware upgrades to the motor controller by dealers as they do not have the rights to do this. R&M say they will not offer to do this directly either. They say a complete reprogramming is needed as otherwise the system will not work. This makes sense as the drive has to back off in between gear shifts. So it seems it is purely a matter of new firmware and a few bits of electronic hardware being wired into the bike (as detailed on the Rohloff website). Non of this can be done without a dealers involvement.Who knows if this will change if there is enough demand?