Please Critique the 2019 Trek Powerfly 5 as a Practical Car Replacement Strategy

Controllers set up for 48 v battery will not allow a 36 v battery to operate. It shows as discharged at full power.
I do fine in fresh snow with 1.75" or 2.1" tires. Those tires do not float on the snow, they punch through it. I do not ride the bike when the weather has turned the snow to ice. Ice does not support side forces that on the front tire keep a bike upright. Last year there were only two days where I couldn't ride the bike when I wanted to. Of course the days it was 6 deg F I wore some serious gloves and a helmet liner from the welding shop over my ears.
In poor visibiliy I'm using a brightz rear red (or pink) light which uses AAA batteries. I shield the power switch with a bit of plastic over it to keep the rain off. In front I got a light flasher with a coin cell battery from the niagaracycle shop. I use a $1 flashlight pointed down to illuminate the speed bumps and pot holes, since I have great night vision and ride 10 mph.
About axles. I've broken a 6 speed shimano axle (18 spd mtn bike), which necks down to 8 mm at one point. I dont do jumping, either. Had to push the bike 2 miles, I was lucky. 7 speed shimano is 11 mm at the narrowest, The axle on the yuba bike appears to be 12 mm.
 
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Controllers set up for 48 v battery will not allow a 36 v battery to operate. It shows as discharged at full power.
I do fine in fresh snow with 1.75" or 2.1" tires. Those tires do not float on the snow, they punch through it. I do not ride the bike when the weather has turned the snow to ice. Ice does not support side forces that on the front tire keep a bike upright. Last year there were only two days where I couldn't ride the bike when I wanted to. Of course the days it was 6 deg F I wore some serious gloves and a helmet liner from the welding shop over my ears.
In poor visibiliy I'm using a brightz rear red (or pink) light which uses AAA batteries. I shield the power switch with a bit of plastic over it to keep the rain off. In front I got a light flasher with a coin cell battery from the niagaracycle shop. I use a $1 flashlight pointed down to illuminate the speed bumps and pot holes, since I have great night vision and ride 10 mph.
About axles. I've broken a 6 speed shimano axle (18 spd mtn bike), which necks down to 8 mm at one point. I dont do jumping, either. Had to push the bike 2 miles, I was lucky. 7 speed shimano is 11 mm at the narrowest, The axle on the yuba bike appears to be 12 mm.

The axle is revealing. I was shocked to discover the Trek Super Commuter+ 7 has a 9mm axle. 15mm are so common. That's when I switched my search from commuter bikes to hardtail mountain bikes. I don't know how much of a difference it makes, but it did not sit right with me.
 
The next step in my carless journey is "mixed mode commuting". Lots of good information from Denver RTD reports:

  1. Denver Quality of Life -- Biking starts page 91
  2. Denver Bicycle Parking and Accessibility Plan
  3. Colorado Biking Needs for Next 25 Years

Denver has a very good system for biking to work that is vastly underutilized. I live and commute in a white area (should mean no bicycle infrastructure) on the map. I find my area to be excellent for cycling.

Check out this map:

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I don't think this is on the up and up. I'm not calling "troll" because there's no effort to start any drama. It just doesn't pass the sniff test for me.
  • You ask newbie questions, and talk about your pedal bike experience, and then say you've owned 7 ebikes, but you don't say what they were or how you've used them or any information like that which would help us to answer your questions.
  • You talk about braking power, but if you've had 7 ebikes, you know what the brakes will do.
  • You ask how much you can carry, as though you've never carried anything before.
  • You emphasize using the ebike as a car replacement and doing your shopping, but then you say that cargo is secondary.
  • When someone answers a question, you've got a reply that sounds like you already know the answer, so why ask the question?
I dunno. Something just seems a little off. I have no real objection. I'm just saying, is all.

Carry on.

Bruce Arnold, ( and MikeBike ) should you read this.... Bruce, I agree with your post. Clearly Mike Bike knows and has
done a fantastic job of 'researching eBikes', best I've ever seen, he knows more about the eBikes then I'll learn two life times,
but at this point I think the researching has moved into 'Analysis paralysis' ...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analysis_paralysis.

I'm a Tech guy and understand and enjoy the investigating portion of an important and fun purchase, but I think the time has come for
MikeBike to make the purchase. It's not as if the discovery period has been willy nilly looking at some Chinese eBike manufacturer working
out of a shed. MikeBike has done Graduate level research on quality bikes....Now go out and buy one and enjoy.

I've told this story before. Hopefully this helps....I was in my LBS getting service on my traditional Hybrid bike, passively looking at the eBikes.
My Sales rep said " Take one out for a ride" So I took a Trek XM700+ on a test ride. In ten minutes into the test ride I knew the eBike had my name on it ! I was so impressed and enjoyed myself so much, I returned and bought the bike on the spot. ...Best money I've ever spent ! I'd do it all over again....Which I did. I wanted to ride on hard packed rails to trails and feel secure and stable. The Trek XM 700 + is a commuter go-fast bike, not best suited for hard packed.

I asked my LBS what he recommend....The Trek Powerfly 7 Hardtail. I bought it having never ridden it , but trusted my LBS...Again the best money I've ever spent again : ) I absolutely love that bike as well. Sometimes you're got to trust and go with what you know deep down is right. A year later and 3200 miles every ride is like Christmas morning. : ) . I hope this helps.

John from CT
 
Bruce Arnold, ( and MikeBike ) should you read this.... Bruce, I agree with your post. Clearly Mike Bike knows and has
done a fantastic job of 'researching eBikes', best I've ever seen, he knows more about the eBikes then I'll learn two life times,
but at this point I think the researching has moved into 'Analysis paralysis' ...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analysis_paralysis.

I'm a Tech guy and understand and enjoy the investigating portion of an important and fun purchase, but I think the time has come for
MikeBike to make the purchase. It's not as if the discovery period has been willy nilly looking at some Chinese eBike manufacturer working
out of a shed. MikeBike has done Graduate level research on quality bikes....Now go out and buy one and enjoy.

I've told this story before. Hopefully this helps....I was in my LBS getting service on my traditional Hybrid bike, passively looking at the eBikes.
My Sales rep said " Take one out for a ride" So I took a Trek XM700+ on a test ride. In ten minutes into the test ride I knew the eBike had my name on it ! I was so impressed and enjoyed myself so much, I returned and bought the bike on the spot. ...Best money I've ever spent ! I'd do it all over again....Which I did. I wanted to ride on hard packed rails to trails and feel secure and stable. The Trek XM 700 + is a commuter go-fast bike, not best suited for hard packed.

I asked my LBS what he recommend....The Trek Powerfly 7 Hardtail. I bought it having never ridden it , but trusted my LBS...Again the best money I've ever spent again : ) I absolutely love that bike as well. Sometimes you're got to trust and go with what you know deep down is right. A year later and 3200 miles every ride is like Christmas morning. : ) . I hope this helps.

John from CT

I intend to. I have not received the quote from the shop as of this morning. The bike will not arrive in Denver for two weeks, anyhow. It's a 2019 model, not 2018. Why they sell 2019 bikes this early in the year is beyond me.

I view an eBike as essential transportation for me, now that i am without a car. I view an eBike as an electric scooter that is allowed on the bike paths. The problem with my carbon bikes is that i have no rack. I get around Denver just fine on my bikes in dry weather. My bikes cannot fulfil my "cargo" or "foul weather" needs.

I will be inconvenienced for a couple of weeks, or whenever the bike is ready.
 
Now the bummers start rolling in. Maybe I should have listened to previous advice a little better? Certainly, explains what happened to other people. Who is being served in this situation? I feel like I have been hoodwinked. The disconnect is disconcerting. Now, i know what it feels like to live in a third world country.

When you cannot easily find a part for sale, the reason might be because that part is not in the US. Although it might be sold as part of a bike. So be careful, because the motor may not be in the US, either. You want to know how long it takes to obtain the part. Even the answer will take a few days.

Here's another surprising thing. The dual battery systems are two different batteries, that are not interchangeable. The top and down tube batteries are different. So, you need to carry four batteries, if you want a backup set.

Now i know why a dealer was so willing to buy the top tube battery from a bike i was considering. Because he could not get that battery any other way! Just who is being served in this situation?

Listen to the honest sales people who try to steer you away from an expensive product. They know more than you do.

Anybody know how to display the exact battery charge percentage on a Bosch system?

  1. No PowerTube 500 wH batteries for purchase in the US, even at $900.
    1. I could be without an eBike for a long time (e.g., months), if the single battery fails, or i drop it.
    2. Apparently, Europe is soaking up the entire supply.
  2. No Nyon display for sale in the US.
    1. That was a key part of my strategy to prolong the battery life, because the Nyon displays the actual battery charge percentage, rather than as five bars.
    2. Few people realize how important keeping the charge between 40% to 90% is to prolong battery life.
    3. I want two batteries to swap when the charge drops to 40%.
 
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Bruce Arnold, ( and MikeBike ) should you read this.... Bruce, I agree with your post. Clearly Mike Bike knows and has
done a fantastic job of 'researching eBikes', best I've ever seen, he knows more about the eBikes then I'll learn two life times,
but at this point I think the researching has moved into 'Analysis paralysis' ...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analysis_paralysis.

I'm a Tech guy and understand and enjoy the investigating portion of an important and fun purchase, but I think the time has come for
MikeBike to make the purchase. It's not as if the discovery period has been willy nilly looking at some Chinese eBike manufacturer working
out of a shed. MikeBike has done Graduate level research on quality bikes....Now go out and buy one and enjoy.

I've told this story before. Hopefully this helps....I was in my LBS getting service on my traditional Hybrid bike, passively looking at the eBikes.
My Sales rep said " Take one out for a ride" So I took a Trek XM700+ on a test ride. In ten minutes into the test ride I knew the eBike had my name on it ! I was so impressed and enjoyed myself so much, I returned and bought the bike on the spot. ...Best money I've ever spent ! I'd do it all over again....Which I did. I wanted to ride on hard packed rails to trails and feel secure and stable. The Trek XM 700 + is a commuter go-fast bike, not best suited for hard packed.

I asked my LBS what he recommend....The Trek Powerfly 7 Hardtail. I bought it having never ridden it , but trusted my LBS...Again the best money I've ever spent again : ) I absolutely love that bike as well. Sometimes you're got to trust and go with what you know deep down is right. A year later and 3200 miles every ride is like Christmas morning. : ) . I hope this helps.

John from CT
Hehe, I lived in a ski resort town where many seasonal workers didn’t own cars and you would see guys pairing up on BMX bikes, with the passenger on pegs. Hell, I didn’t have a car and I rode/snowshoed for my commute “up the hill.” I would load my rear rack so heavy with laundry and groceries that my front tire lifted.
I use a Burley Travoy today and apart from stuff having a tendency to get caught in the wheels, I like it. I wish that it had a higher weight capacity, though.
 
Hehe, I lived in a ski resort town where many seasonal workers didn’t own cars and you would see guys pairing up on BMX bikes, with the passenger on pegs. Hell, I didn’t have a car and I rode/snowshoed for my commute “up the hill.” I would load my rear rack so heavy with laundry and groceries that my front tire lifted.
I use a Burley Travoy today and apart from stuff having a tendency to get caught in the wheels, I like it. I wish that it had a higher weight capacity, though.

People perceive problems that often do not exist. Most people will not bike more than two miles. The reasons are unclear to me. Bikes are generally faster than cars under two miles. Ebikes might have a larger radius.

Part of the problem might just be because we judge distance in terms of driving. We have a hard time imagining getting somewhere any other way, until we are forced to try. I still have a hard time believing how far i bike, when i look at a route on the map.

A big revelation to me was finding routes that parallel intimidating roads. I avoided safe routes simply because they were close to a major road. Now i am proud that i can navigate around perceived problems. I also feel a little stupid, given how often i rode on those dangerous roads. Sometimes, i see how backed up traffic is, while safely riding nearby.
 
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People perceive problems that often do not exist. Most people will not bike more than two miles. The reasons are unclear to me. Bikes are generally faster than cars under two miles. Ebikes might have a larger radius.

Part of the problem might just be because we judge distance in terms of driving. We have a hard time imagining getting somewhere any other way, until we are forced to try. I still have a hard time believing how far i bike, when i look at a route on the map.

A big revelation to me was finding routes that parallel intimidating roads. I avoided safe routes simply because they were close to a major road. Now i am proud that i can navigate around perceived problems. I also feel a little stupid, given how often i rode on those dangerous roads. Sometimes, i see how backed up traffic is, while safely riding nearby.
I just finished watching Court’s video on Mammoth Mt. Ski Area. I didn’t know (as a Mammoth Lakes resident away at college) that riding an e-bike on town bike paths is illegal. Riding out in traffic is suicidal with visitors focusing on views, maps, kids, etc. so when I go back I will still ride illegally. What is Smoky Bear going to do, give me a ticket?
Hehe, I just bought a RadBurro to convert into a nano rv, so I take that back. I will ride in traffic as an extended middle finger to the USFS. 20 mph, baby! Don’t get mad at me!
 
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I just finished watching Court’s video on Mammoth Mt. Ski Area. I didn’t know (as a Mammoth Lakes resident away at college) that riding an e-bike on town bike paths is illegal. Riding out in traffic is suicidal with visitors focusing on views, maps, kids, etc. so when I go back I will still ride illegally. What is Smoky Bear going to do, give me a ticket?
Hehe, I just bought a RadBurro to convert into a nano rv, so I take that back. I will ride in traffic as an extended middle finger to the USFS. 20 mph, baby! Don’t get mad at me!

If you take a close look at the law, you might find legitimate exemptions. If the conditions are unsafe, how can you be guilty? I believe that is something policemen are reasonable about. Recklessness is what ruins it for everyone.

I think the basic issue boils down to safety. Scaring pedestrians is a natural consequence of riding close to pedestrians, because bikes are silent and sudden. I just try my best to make sure pedestrians do not feel threatened. I backpedal in the hopes that they hear me coming.

Some people react poorly. Yesterday, a woman was walking her dog. She was on the wrong side, while the dog was on the opposite side. So, the leash extented across the bike path. Rather than walking over to the dog, she tried to drag the dog off the grass. She was all upset. I just stopped and calmly asked her if she was OK. She never moved to the right side of the path. She did not apologize. Someone like that kills people when they get behind a car wheel. I suspect she has dementia.

The real trouble begins when pedestrians or cyclists are injured or killed.

Class 1 (20 mph) eBikes have just recently been made legal on Colorado bike paths. Class 3 (28mph) are illegal.
 
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Here is your grocery fetching machine (Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

  1. Bosch CX or High Speed Drive
  2. Full suspension or hard tail
  3. Two battery option
  4. Various cargo sizes
  5. Child transport options
  6. Soft cover available
  7. Rear rack option in addition to front cargo
  8. Derailleur or Nuvinci transmission choices
riese-and-muller-load-front-1-800x500.JPG
 
Here is your grocery fetching machine (Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

  1. Bosch CX or High Speed Drive
  2. Full suspension or hard tail
  3. Two battery option
  4. Various cargo sizes
  5. Child transport options
  6. Soft cover available
  7. Rear rack option in addition to front cargo
  8. Derailleur or Nuvinci transmission choices
riese-and-muller-load-front-1-800x500.JPG

Yes, I agree that is a cargo machine!

I think i will get groceries a few times each month. Walmart is only one mile away. So, my cargo needs are on the low side. My primary need is a "foul weather" bike. 2.4 inch wheels provide the traction that I seek for foul weather.

Mike
 
A link about choosing trailers.

http://www.atob.org.uk/bicycle-trailers/bicycle-trailers/

In our experience, a hitch that mounts on, or close to the rear axle is the best kind, and our favourite is the Burley ‘alternative hitch’, available in quick-release or hub gear variants.These are quick and easy to swap from bike to bike, rigid, and easy to use. Other good hitches exist, such as the Weber, but look for something that allows movement in all planes without flexing. Some use a spring or flexible tube, which can work well with light loads, but may oscillate or ‘snake’ from side to side at speed with heavier loads. As with a car, you generally don’t discover that your ‘outfit’ is prone to snaking until you’re travelling fast enough for it to be a problem. If oscillation gets out of hand, particularly on a corner or while braking, the towing vehicle can be flipped off the road.

The best way to prevent calamities is to load heavy objects as low down, and as close to the centre of the trailer as possible – preferably just in front of the wheels.The idea is to have a small percentage of the trailer load supported by the rear of the bike, which helps to improve adhesion when cornering or braking.Too much weight may cause the tow-hitch to bend or flex, which can start the trailer snaking.Too little – or worse still, negative weight (a load behind the trailer axle) – may cause the rear wheel of the bicycle to leave the ground. In motoring terms, the general rule is to put 10% of the trailer weight on the tow hitch, and that sort of ratio is about right for a bicycle trailer too.

For cars, the safe maximum weight for an unbraked trailer is considered to be half the weight of the towing vehicle, and for most purposes this is a useful guide to the weight a bicycle can tow in safety. If we take a bicycle and rider weighing 90kg, the total trailer weight should be kept below 45kg. Assuming a trailer weight of 12kg, that leaves us with a 33kg payload – two smallish children or quite a hefty supermarket shop.With a trailing load of half the rider/bike weight, you should barely notice the trailer is there, provided you take account of the greater stopping distance, width and lack of acceleration when pulling out into traffic.

Going downhill or braking (worst of all, both) is more complicated, because now the trailer is trying its hardest to overtake, and if over weight or poorly balanced, it may begin to oscillate. Fortunately, you’ve put the load just forward of the axle (you did remember to do this, didn’t you?), and this carefully positioned load allows you to make heavier rear brake applications without skidding. By contrast, the front brake should be used with real caution, because a front brake application will take weight off the back wheel. Similarly, keep your bottom firmly rooted in the saddle to put your weight over that crucial tyre contact patch.

Always check the and recheck after a mile or two if going any distance.You are entirely responsible for the load, and despite the lack of cycle trailer legislation, if the police really want a conviction, they can draw on a number of archaic laws from the days when penny-farthings frightened the horses.

Cyclists are hard-wired to avoid pot-holes, or lift their weight out of the saddle if a bump is unavoidable. Believe it or not, it wasn’t until Alexander was old enough to complain that we realised the trailer occupant was unable to see the bump and thus unable to brace himself.We made life easier by fitting suspension – the previously rigid Winchester axle now pivoting against the spring force of a pair of bungee cords. Although rather crude, this system has excellent anti-roll characteristics (‘proper’ independent suspension would allow the trailer to lean outwards when cornering) and gives plenty of suspension movement. Manufacturers please take note and listen to what children are saying.The same applies to dumb loads. Carry a laptop in an unsuspended bicycle trailer and you’re asking for trouble. Place frail items on cushions, and lower the tyre pressures…
 
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https://angusadventures.com/adventurer-handbook/trailers/

Unlike a trailer, an Xtracycle does not remove weight from the bicycle to be supported on additional wheels. Instead, the system invites extra loading onto a frame and hardware that may be insufficient to carry this extra weight.

Anyone know how common these are? Is bearing damage the worst outcome?

  • Tire pinching,
  • spokes popping and
  • bearing damage
can result from an overloaded bicycle.

The lengthening of the bike frame further increases frame torsion stress which is aggravated by heavy loads.
 
I saw a used xtracycle freight rig at a Louisville bike shop based on a steel diamondback MTB, $900. I was afraid the bolt on wheel extender would flex under heavy loads, especially from side to side. I didn't think the mount was very secure. (Also it had a 6 speed shimano rear hub, an axle fracture risk as noted previously, plus rim brakes). So I spent $1500 on the bodaboda plus $450 in accessories bags and bins. The bodaboda had 24 speeds, dual disk brakes, integral rear rack, frame bosses for the front rack, aluminum frame, and is exceedingly stiff. I think your beer in backpack disaster may have had something to do with the human body wiggling from side to side as one pedals, throwing the beer around. My loads sit dead in the bottom of the bag and I don't feel them at all when steering. Even the A/C strapped on top of the rear rack wasn't a problem after I got it started.
Bearings have 1/4" balls in all cases and I've never damaged one. I have had shimano MTB axles come unscrewed and drop balls, making me push the bike home for miles.
I've stretched spokes on cheap MTB wheels and had to tightten them and grind the ends off to keep them from puncturing tubes. The spokes on the bodaboda so far are tight. Max load about 60 lb so far on the rear plus 12 on the front rack. Plus 160 lb me and 53 lb bike.
Those european front bin bikes look like ****onwheels in a high wind, especially from the front. I carry my supplies 30 miles. I can collapse the bags if I'm running light.
About car replacement. I carry at all times on the bike 1. blood pressure & diabetes medicine, 3 strengths of antihistimine, 2 strengths of NSAID pain medicine 2. two tubes 3 air pump 4 tool kit 4 lb in kiddie school box 5 porous rain jacket 6 hot sweaty rain poncho 7 gloves for shifting 8 reflective stripe green vest 9 cell phone A grocery bag to keep from scarring up helmet B 6' 1/4" cable + lock.
If you kept all this stuff in your car you'd find it annoying to be out on your bicycle. My Mother was caught by the truant officer (age 35) without a drivers license or money on her bike once.
 
Yes, the longer bike is subject to greater stresses. I think there is a lot to know about longer bikes that you might want to investigate.

A trailer is less stress on the bike.

Would you be better off with a trailer?

Evidently, double-butted spokes are better for carrying a load, but i do not know why.

You are probably responding to the previous post ( #60 ) ?

I think there is a big distinction between types of MTB rims (i.e., Boost) and spoke configurations. I started to discuss it here:

https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/how-does-a-bike-trailer-stress-an-ebike.24574/
 
I saw a used xtracycle freight rig at a Louisville bike shop based on a steel diamondback MTB, $900. I was afraid the bolt on wheel extender would flex under heavy loads, especially from side to side. I didn't think the mount was very secure. (Also it had a 6 speed shimano rear hub, an axle fracture risk as noted previously, plus rim brakes). So I spent $1500 on the bodaboda plus $450 in accessories bags and bins. The bodaboda had 24 speeds, dual disk brakes, integral rear rack, frame bosses for the front rack, aluminum frame, and is exceedingly stiff. I think your beer in backpack disaster may have had something to do with the human body wiggling from side to side as one pedals, throwing the beer around. My loads sit dead in the bottom of the bag and I don't feel them at all when steering. Even the A/C strapped on top of the rear rack wasn't a problem after I got it started.
Bearings have 1/4" balls in all cases and I've never damaged one. I have had shimano MTB axles come unscrewed and drop balls, making me push the bike home for miles.
I've stretched spokes on cheap MTB wheels and had to tightten them and grind the ends off to keep them from puncturing tubes. The spokes on the bodaboda so far are tight. Max load about 60 lb so far on the rear plus 12 on the front rack. Plus 160 lb me and 53 lb bike.
Those european front bin bikes look like ****onwheels in a high wind, especially from the front. I carry my supplies 30 miles. I can collapse the bags if I'm running light.
About car replacement. I carry at all times on the bike 1. blood pressure & diabetes medicine, 3 strengths of antihistimine, 2 strengths of NSAID pain medicine 2. two tubes 3 air pump 4 tool kit 4 lb in kiddie school box 5 porous rain jacket 6 hot sweaty rain poncho 7 gloves for shifting 8 reflective stripe green vest 9 cell phone A grocery bag to keep from scarring up helmet B 6' 1/4" cable + lock.
If you kept all this stuff in your car you'd find it annoying to be out on your bicycle. My Mother was caught by the truant officer (age 35) without a drivers license or money on her bike once.

Yes, the longer bike is subject to greater stresses. I think there is a lot to know about longer bikes that you might want to investigate.

A trailer is less stress on the bike.

  1. Would you be better off with a trailer?
  2. How laterally strong are your wheels?
    1. Boost hub are designed to be laterally strong.
    2. But your riding style has a bigger effect, especially if you feel a lack of control.
  3. How often do you true your wheels?
  4. You might want to follow Bosch ABS brakes that are coming out soon.
    1. Braking is very important when carrying a load, because braking can easily through you off the bike with a big load.

Evidently, double-butted spokes are better for carrying a load, but i do not know why.

You are probably responding to the previous post ( #60 ) ?

I think there is a big distinction between types of MTB rims (i.e., Boost) and spoke configurations. I started to discuss it here:

https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/how-does-a-bike-trailer-stress-an-ebike.24574/
 
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