Please Critique the 2019 Trek Powerfly 5 as a Practical Car Replacement Strategy

indianajo said:
I saw a used xtracycle freight rig at a Louisville bike shop based on a steel diamondback MTB, $900. I was afraid the bolt on wheel extender would flex under heavy loads, especially from side to side. I didn't think the mount was very secure. (Also it had a 6 speed shimano rear hub, an axle fracture risk as noted previously, plus rim brakes). So I spent $1500 on the bodaboda plus $450 in accessories bags and bins. The bodaboda had 24 speeds, dual disk brakes, integral rear rack, frame bosses for the front rack, aluminum frame, and is exceedingly stiff. I think your beer in backpack disaster may have had something to do with the human body wiggling from side to side as one pedals, throwing the beer around. My loads sit dead in the bottom of the bag and I don't feel them at all when steering. Even the A/C strapped on top of the rear rack wasn't a problem after I got it started.
Bearings have 1/4" balls in all cases and I've never damaged one. I have had shimano MTB axles come unscrewed and drop balls, making me push the bike home for miles.
I've stretched spokes on cheap MTB wheels and had to tightten them and grind the ends off to keep them from puncturing tubes. The spokes on the bodaboda so far are tight. Max load about 60 lb so far on the rear plus 12 on the front rack. Plus 160 lb me and 53 lb bike.
Those european front bin bikes look like ****onwheels in a high wind, especially from the front. I carry my supplies 30 miles. I can collapse the bags if I'm running light.
About car replacement. I carry at all times on the bike 1. blood pressure & diabetes medicine, 3 strengths of antihistimine, 2 strengths of NSAID pain medicine 2. two tubes 3 air pump 4 tool kit 4 lb in kiddie school box 5 porous rain jacket 6 hot sweaty rain poncho 7 gloves for shifting 8 reflective stripe green vest 9 cell phone A grocery bag to keep from scarring up helmet B 6' 1/4" cable + lock.
If you kept all this stuff in your car you'd find it annoying to be out on your bicycle. My Mother was caught by the truant officer (age 35) without a drivers license or money on her bike once.
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See the link in this post for tips on properly loading a trailer. #58

Properly balancing a load on a bike is more involved than I thought. With a trailer, on 10% of the load should be on the rear wheel.

How you use your brakes is different with loads. For a trailer, you reverse the brakes, the rear brake becomes dominant. The rear brake becomes all important. If you use the front brake with a trailer, you can lift the rear wheel off the ground.
 
BikeMike said:
If you take a close look at the law, you might find legitimate exemptions. If the conditions are unsafe, how can you be guilty? I believe that is something policemen are reasonable about. Recklessness is what ruins it for everyone.

I think the basic issue boils down to safety. Scaring pedestrians is a natural consequence of riding close to pedestrians, because bikes are silent and sudden. I just try my best to make sure pedestrians do not feel threatened. I backpedal in the hopes that they hear me coming.

Some people react poorly. Yesterday, a woman was walking her dog. She was on the wrong side, while the dog was on the opposite side. So, the leash extented across the bike path. Rather than walking over to the dog, she tried to drag the dog off the grass. She was all upset. I just stopped and calmly asked her if she was OK. She never moved to the right side of the path. She did not apologize. Someone like that kills people when they get behind a car wheel. I suspect she has dementia.

The real trouble begins when pedestrians or cyclists are injured or killed.

Class 1 (20 mph) eBikes have just recently been made legal on Colorado bike paths. Class 3 (28mph) are illegal.
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Yeah, I'm a polite bicyclist. I even try to ding my bell quietly, so pedestrians don't think that it's a message to get out of my way. You see rude bicyclists zipping fast around campus every day- I try not to be one of them.

I admit, nothing brings out my road rage when I'm in a car like the Spandex road racer bicyclists. I have been out on Benton Crossing Road, a two-lane Mono County, CA hwy where visibility is reduced in many places, and road racers frequently take up the entire lane riding side-by-side. That's fine if there's a race and a permit was taken out for the event with appropriate signage, but I've seen even a Mono County Sheriff going slower than the speed limit following these arrogant, elitist, narcissistic bicyclists. It's illegal and unsafe. It seems to be a message, "We are superior to you car drivers, morally, culturally, economically, and we're going to rub your face in our arrogance and narcissism."

I'm not an elitist tricyclist with a RadBurro. I'm not of the professional class that has income and wealth in the upper 2% in this capitalist society, I'm in the bottom 2%. My RadBurro is not trying to provoke auto drivers' anger, it's a strategy for me to survive on limited resources. Please don't kill me for that...
 
jhoblo said:
Yeah, I'm a polite bicyclist. I even try to ding my bell quietly, so pedestrians don't think that it's a message to get out of my way. You see rude bicyclists zipping fast around campus every day- I try not to be one of them.

I admit, nothing brings out my road rage when I'm in a car like the Spandex road racer bicyclists. I have been out on Benton Crossing Road, a two-lane Mono County, CA hwy where visibility is reduced in many places, and road racers frequently take up the entire lane riding side-by-side. That's fine if there's a race and a permit was taken out for the event with appropriate signage, but I've seen even a Mono County Sheriff going slower than the speed limit following these arrogant, elitist, narcissistic bicyclists. It's illegal and unsafe. It seems to be a message, "We are superior to you car drivers, morally, culturally, economically, and we're going to rub your face in our arrogance and narcissism."

I'm not an elitist tricyclist with a RadBurro. I'm not of the professional class that has income and wealth in the upper 2% in this capitalist society, I'm in the bottom 2%. My RadBurro is not trying to provoke auto drivers' anger, it's a strategy for me to survive on limited resources. Please don't kill me for that...
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I can relate. I got a major dose of attitude from a neighbor's boyfriend. His girlfriend was not very pleased, when she arrived on the scene. I had never met him before, but I had ridden once with her. It was an unpleasant experience. Everybody loses.
 
I suspect cheap MTB wheels spokes stretch because the material is not really steel. ****ese steel is very variable, as anybody who has worked with a friend that has harbor freight tools knows. I had a wheel stretch about 1/4 of spokes, replaced them with DT swiss spokes from niagara, same diameter, no more problem. Same loads. I true wheels when the rim starts rubbing against the rim brake annoyingly. Usually not more often than once or twice in life of bike (shimano gear clusters wear points off in about 7000? miles). I don't jump curbs or jump the bike but I do hit potholes occasionally.
I've had cheap mtb wheels let the tire pop off the rim, probably because the OD was too small. I used instead some belgian wheels for >20 years off a 1986 schwinn mtb with worn out sprockets. Even with the belgian wheels, cheap grocery store tires (schwinn) would pop off the rims. I'm using kenda from the bike shop now. My max pressure is about 55 psi, 2.1" tire rating.
I'd say the tubing in the stretch bodaboda is entirely suitable for loads it is rated for - ie 220 lb plus the rider, not allowing more than 100 lb behind the rear axle. Xtracycle bolts the rear wheel stretcher to the old wheel mount, plus a single bolt through the kick stand mount. Not a lot of twist torque arm available with either.
As the mounts for pannier bags are supierior on the bodaboda to the *****y rear mounts available on MTB for securing rear baskets, the load has much less side to side sway. Basket mounts from the seat post of MTB were useless, load swayed too much. I had to make up a basket mount on MTB from the rear down tubes. The MTB basket set would still shift sideways if the bike fell over or I brushed something, and required frequent re-tensioning to avoid rubbing the tire. I had 5/16"x6" screws tensioning the two sides of the basket mount against clamps on the down tubes.
Going down 15% grades as I do from time to time, there is no way I'm going to buy a trailer. Besides the air drag, braking a trailer scares me. Hitting a deer at 30 mph downhill is a serious risk in n Clark County. Deer are as stupid as bunny rabbits, and the bucks will charge vehicles in the fall.
 
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indianajo said:
I suspect cheap MTB wheels spokes stretch because the material is not really steel. ****ese steel is very variable, as anybody who has worked with a friend that has harbor freight tools knows. I had a wheel stretch about 1/4 of spokes, replaced them with DT swiss spokes from niagara, same diameter, no more problem. Same loads. I true wheels when the rim starts rubbing against the rim brake annoyingly. Usually not more often than once or twice in life of bike (shimano gear clusters wear points off in about 7000? miles). I don't jump curbs or jump the bike but I do hit potholes occasionally.
I've had cheap mtb wheels let the tire pop off the rim, probably because the OD was too small. I used instead some belgian wheels for >20 years off a 1986 schwinn mtb with worn out sprockets. Even with the belgian wheels, cheap grocery store tires (schwinn) would pop off the rims. I'm using kenda from the bike shop now. My max pressure is about 55 psi, 2.1" tire rating.
I'd say the tubing in the stretch bodaboda is entirely suitable for loads it is rated for - ie 220 lb plus the rider, not allowing more than 100 lb behind the rear axle. Xtracycle bolts the rear wheel stretcher to the old wheel mount, plus a single bolt through the kick stand mount. Not a lot of twist torque arm available with either.
As the mounts for pannier bags are supierior on the bodaboda to the *****y rear mounts available on MTB for securing rear baskets, the load has much less side to side sway. Basket mounts from the seat post of MTB were useless, load swayed too much. I had to make up a basket mount on MTB from the rear down tubes. The MTB basket set would still shift sideways if the bike fell over or I brushed something, and required frequent re-tensioning to avoid rubbing the tire. I had 5/16"x6" screws tensioning the two sides of the basket mount against clamps on the down tubes.
Going down 15% grades as I do from time to time, there is no way I'm going to buy a trailer. Besides the air drag, braking a trailer scares me. Hitting a deer at 30 mph downhill is a serious risk in n Clark County. Deer are as stupid as bunny rabbits, and the bucks will charge vehicles in the fall.
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What is your opinion of the Ortlieb system?

https://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-bike-rack-basket-panniers/
 
Nova Haibike said:
Double butted spokes are thinner in the middle. This makes them more elastic, and more resitant to fatigue at the spoke head. They are not better for carrying a load; that is a function of larger gauge spokes, increased number of spokes, spoke tension, and rim construction.
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Thanks.

Would you happen to know if one type of chain is better than another when the bike is towing a total of 300+ Pounds? The cargo payload will probably only be 50 pounds of the total weight. The Powerfly 5 chain is KMC X10.
 
The ortlieb pannier appears to be similar to what I've got, from yubabikes.com. Mine are grey. Mine have the roll top design. Ortleib has a plastic bar on the back that mounts plastic clips. My bar has no such function, it just reinforces the fabric and captures a fabric string (nylon?) strap that I can tie to. I use twine to loop the strap to the rack, since tie-wraps were so wimpy. My bags also have hefty front and back straps, but if I hang it with them the top won't open enough to clear groceries like gallon bottles or lettuce. Hung from the back I can get 3 gallon bottles (hawaiin punch bottle is the best) plus some groceries tubes air pump tools cable etc in each pannier.
Using front rack + 2 panniers I can carry about 80 lb, which is 1/2 my weight but less than me plus bike. I've carried a 70 lb pickup tire on the back, but I didn't have the front rack built yet and the front tended to lift before I got on. I limited that to 1/4 mile - with front rack I might try the 25 miles to the tire store from my country property. I called a favor from a church friend to get my tire carried out and back; the wife won't deal with that sort of dirty nuisance in "our" car.
Note in the basket mount diagrams, item 4 the seat stay eyelet, on my Pacific MTB only passed a 4 mm screw, which wasn't strong enough to keep the basket from swaying from side to side. The screw would bend. Mid fork eyelet on the front is only a fantasy in my experience.
 
indianajo said:
The ortlieb pannier appears to be similar to what I've got, from yubabikes.com. Mine are grey. Mine have the roll top design. Ortleib has a plastic bar on the back that mounts plastic clips. My bar has no such function, it just reinforces the fabric and captures a fabric string (nylon?) strap that I can tie to. I use twine to loop the strap to the rack, since tie-wraps were so wimpy. My bags also have hefty front and back straps, but if I hang it with them the top won't open enough to clear groceries like gallon bottles or lettuce. Hung from the back I can get 3 gallon bottles (hawaiin punch bottle is the best) plus some groceries tubes air pump tools cable etc in each pannier.
Using front rack + 2 panniers I can carry about 80 lb, which is 1/2 my weight but less than me plus bike. I've carried a 70 lb pickup tire on the back, but I didn't have the front rack built yet and the front tended to lift before I got on. I limited that to 1/4 mile - with front rack I might try the 25 miles to the tire store from my country property. I called a favor from a church friend to get my tire carried out and back; the wife won't deal with that sort of dirty nuisance in "our" car.
Note in the basket mount diagrams, item 4 the seat stay eyelet, on my Pacific MTB only passed a 4 mm screw, which wasn't strong enough to keep the basket from swaying from side to side. The screw would bend. Mid fork eyelet on the front is only a fantasy in my experience.
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Did you try getting as far forward as possible and pushing down hard on the handlebars, to keep the fromt wheel down?

A very dangerous situation is when you apply the front brakes when the wheel is in the air. If a braked wheel hits the ground, it's all over!
 
indianajo said:
The ortlieb pannier appears to be similar to what I've got, from yubabikes.com. Mine are grey. Mine have the roll top design. Ortleib has a plastic bar on the back that mounts plastic clips. My bar has no such function, it just reinforces the fabric and captures a fabric string (nylon?) strap that I can tie to. I use twine to loop the strap to the rack, since tie-wraps were so wimpy. My bags also have hefty front and back straps, but if I hang it with them the top won't open enough to clear groceries like gallon bottles or lettuce. Hung from the back I can get 3 gallon bottles (hawaiin punch bottle is the best) plus some groceries tubes air pump tools cable etc in each pannier.
Using front rack + 2 panniers I can carry about 80 lb, which is 1/2 my weight but less than me plus bike. I've carried a 70 lb pickup tire on the back, but I didn't have the front rack built yet and the front tended to lift before I got on. I limited that to 1/4 mile - with front rack I might try the 25 miles to the tire store from my country property. I called a favor from a church friend to get my tire carried out and back; the wife won't deal with that sort of dirty nuisance in "our" car.
Note in the basket mount diagrams, item 4 the seat stay eyelet, on my Pacific MTB only passed a 4 mm screw, which wasn't strong enough to keep the basket from swaying from side to side. The screw would bend. Mid fork eyelet on the front is only a fantasy in my experience.
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I have an answer to one of your earliest posts. You mentioned the long delays from Bosch for replacement parts. Seems like there could be a battery crisis for eBikes this year, because car manufacturers have a higher priority.

Anither reason is Bosch decided to outsource their battery manufacturing business. Bosch bailed on their plans to build a Tesla-like mega factory. I am beginning to come around to the realization that Bosch may be too big of a global giant to concern itself with the small USA eBike market needs.

An eBike without replacement parts is worthless to me, because i am dependent upon the bike as a car replacement. Bosch announced PowerTube 500 batteries for the USA four months ago, but still none in USA inventory. I can always pay Walmart $10 to deliver food, to cover my cargo needs. I can take a bus to substitute for my foul weather needs. So, i have an effective backup plan. Trek said they would do their best to get a replacement battery, if mine failed. But, if there is a global shortage of eBike batteries, nobody will get a replacement battery quickly.

A friend of mine is a marketing professor. I need not repeat his comments here. Suffice it to say he believes globalization has reached an extreme and we are headed for change.

The risk bothers me because the total cost is about double the cost of the base price of the eBike. I have over a dozen upgrades to turn the base eBike model into a car replacement. The lack of replacement batteries is very worrisome, because the investment is very high.

Another issue that really bothers me is the inability to get an exact battery charge percentage, because Bosch does not sell the Nyon display in the USA. I never want to drain the battery below 40%. Also, i never want to charge over 90%, to prolong battery life. Nyon is the only device that i am aware of that gives a precise battery charge readout. Over the lifetime of the bike, the battery cost will be significant.

Trek disables walk mode, which is a big problem crossing the intersection near Walmart. One street is three lanes of traffic in each direction, plus turning lanes. I always wait a long time to cross the street. The time to get across the street is short. With a heavy load, that could be very stressful. That interection is at the base of a moderate downhill grade. Not looking forward to braking all the way to the stop light. No better option, either. I would not dare cross that street without a stop light. The safest option is to cross the street around sunrise on a weekend. I live on a ridge. Walmart is at the ridge top.

I also have no idea what effect towing 300+ pounds will have on the battery. I suspect the controller will pull maximum current, until i reach a constant 15 mph speed. I will be riding on suburban streets, with plenty of stop and go riding. The battery could have a very short life. I cannot imagine this pattern is good for the battery chemistry. For that matter, i am not sure whether the actual battery chemistry is amenable to heavy towing. I am certain the new 2170 Tesla battery size is better than the current 18650, for this high torque purpose. 2170 batteries for eBike are coming soon.

Another undesirable compromise is the shorter mileage a high torque motor gets. On the Trek forum, i read about unimpressive mileage. Not very good for foul weather commuting over rolling highs for 25 miles. The battery will be low on return.

I have not found a better solution, despite extensive searching. I am limited to Trek and Bosch, because I need dependable service.

https://www.bike-eu.com/home/nieuws...8.2057391945.1533174268-1670149538.1533174268

I elaborate further in this thread: https://electricbikereview.com/foru...-bosch-powertube-500-wh-arrives-in-usa.24572/
 
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BikeMike said:
...Trek disables walk mode...
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This is not longer the case for all Trek bikes. I picked up my Supercommuter 8, special ordered straight from a Trek warehouse to my bike shop, and it came with walk mode enabled. If you look at Court's supercommuter 7 review, down in the comments, I mentioned that my supercommuter 8 came with walk mode and then he replied saying he has heard that all 2018 trek ebikes should come with it enabled. It might be worth talking with your bike shop to see if this can be changed by them if your bike doesn't come with it enabled.

https://electricbikereview.com/trek/super-commuter-plus-7/
 
chriskmee said:
This is not longer the case for all Trek bikes. I picked up my Supercommuter 8, special ordered straight from a Trek warehouse to my bike shop, and it came with walk mode enabled. If you look at Court's supercommuter 7 review, down in the comments, I mentioned that my supercommuter 8 came with walk mode and then he replied saying he has heard that all 2018 trek ebikes should come with it enabled. It might be worth talking with your bike shop to see if this can be changed by them if your bike doesn't come with it enabled.

https://electricbikereview.com/trek/super-commuter-plus-7/
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Thanks. How did you convince them? Do you know the owner?

Both the online agent and the assistant store manager said no.

I even sent an email. I pushed real hard. The gave me the "not legal in the USA" line.
 
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BikeMike said:
Thanks. How did you convince them? Do you know the owner?

Both the online agent and the assistant store manager said no.

I even sent an email. I pushed real hard. The gave me the "not legal in the USA" line.
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Mine came enabled without me saying a thing. I didn't have to convince anyone, didn't even mention it to anyone at the store, and had no contact with the guy who actually put the bike together and set it up. I didn't even know I had it until I read through the manual a day or so later and tried it. Have you tried contacting Trek directly to see what they say? If they say its good to go then maybe you can show your bike shop the communication and they can verify with Trek if they want to. As far as I know it should be enabled by default for all new Trek e-bikes, and hopefully they can enable it on prior year bikes with a software update.
 
chriskmee said:
Mine came enabled without me saying a thing. I didn't have to convince anyone, didn't even mention it to anyone at the store, and had no contact with the guy who actually put the bike together and set it up. I didn't even know I had it until I read through the manual a day or so later and tried it. Have you tried contacting Trek directly to see what they say? If they say its good to go then maybe you can show your bike shop the communication and they can verify with Trek if they want to. As far as I know it should be enabled by default for all new Trek e-bikes, and hopefully they can enable it on prior year bikes with a software update.
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Since I forgot to mention it, I bought the bike in Nevada, USA from an authorized Trek dealer.
 
chriskmee said:
Mine came enabled without me saying a thing. I didn't have to convince anyone, didn't even mention it to anyone at the store, and had no contact with the guy who actually put the bike together and set it up. I didn't even know I had it until I read through the manual a day or so later and tried it. Have you tried contacting Trek directly to see what they say? If they say its good to go then maybe you can show your bike shop the communication and they can verify with Trek if they want to. As far as I know it should be enabled by default for all new Trek e-bikes, and hopefully they can enable it on prior year bikes with a software update.
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Yes, i also asked the Trek telephone representative. He was adamant about it.
The Trek store in Denver is super huge. I have never seen any bike store that big. The assistant manager said no, despite the fact that it is a huge negative for me.

I think you got lucky and slipped through the cracks.

Mike
 
Anyone have experience with the Racktime Boxit cargo box attached to a rack? I am thinking of using the Bontrager Interface base plate to attach the Boxit. 30 pounds of groceries might be a little awkward, because it is 19" wide. But that is more attractive to me than trying to get a trailer across six lanes of traffic.

(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)
 
So I had a chat with Trek, this is what they said:

Chris: Hello, I was wondering if you clear up something. I've been hearing conflicting information about if your new ebikes come with walk mode or not, can you confirm whether new trek ebikes come with walk mode or not?

Mitchell: Hello, Chris!
Chris: Hello
Mitchell: Our eBikes will not come with a walk mode in the United States
Chris: So the fact that mine did is a fluke?
Mitchell: Could have, unless it was changed
Chris: I know in 2017 it was something that wasn't enabled, but ive been hearing that 2018 ebikes come with it enabled.
Mitchell: Bosch isn't supposed to be shipping walk modes here
It can be enabled however, but that is through a shop and through Bosch
Chris: Ah, ok, so it isn't supposed to be enabled even though it can be through a dealer?
Mitchell: Correct!
Chris: ok, thanks, I guess I just got lucky then and mine was enabled. Thanks for clearing all of that up.
Mitchell: Sounds like you did! And you're welcome!
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I'm still not sure what to think to be honest... If it wasn't allowed I would have expected that not to be an option the dealer can make in the first place. Also knowing that @Court himself said that he heard from a Trek representative that the new bikes were shipping with walk mode. I'm leaning towards its allowed now but the memo hasn't gotten around.
 
chriskmee said:
So I had a chat with Trek, this is what they said:



I'm still not sure what to think to be honest... If it wasn't allowed I would have expected that not to be an option the dealer can make in the first place. Also knowing that @Court himself said that he heard from a Trek representative that the new bikes were shipping with walk mode. I'm leaning towards its allowed now but the memo hasn't gotten around.
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OK, i will call or email corporate headquarters. Having walk mode is very important to me. I am totally intimidated by the intersection. I cross it every day. And i hate it. I dread walking across with a Burley trailer. We really need a tunnel or pedestrian bridge.

I'd be all for closing those streets from 10-5, but Walmart would have a fit.
 
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