Please Critique the 2019 Trek Powerfly 5 as a Practical Car Replacement Strategy

[BikeMike]

OK, i will call or email corporate headquarters. Having walk mode is very important to me. I am totally intimidated by the intersection. I cross it every day. And i hate it. I dread walking across with a Burley trailer. We really need a tunnel or pedestrian bridge.

I'd be all for closing those streets from 10-5, but Walmart would have a fit.

Here's what they told me:

• Walk mode had been enabled at one time, but that was an oversight by Bosch.
• Walk mode is disabled this year, because it is considered a throttle, which is illegal by federal law.
  • Import is according to federal law.
• State laws vary.
  • NV may allow it.
  • CO considers it Class 2.
• Any dealer can restore walk mode with the diagnostics software
  • My dealer will not. I suppose the reason is the bike has a Class 1 tag on the seat post.
  • I do not blame them for disabling walk mode.
  • The Park Ranger gave me a nasty look for 18mph in 15mph bike path this morning.
  • I dropped my speed from 25mph.
  • If he pulled me over on an ebike, and the bike was class 2, Trek would hear about it.

 

[chriskmee]

I might have just figured something out.

federal law states that an ebike can't go over 20mph on its own power. 28mph ebikes use a motor only powerful enough to go 20 on its own power, but with human assistance that same motor is powerful enough to go 28.

As far as I know, NV mostly follows CA, in that:
Class1: up to 20mph pedal assit
Class2: up to 20mph pedal assist and/or up to 20mph throttle
Class3: up to 28mph pedal assist
Class4: Throttle over 20mph or pedal assist over 28mph = moped

Using this classification, My ebike from the factory is a class 3, and the addition of walk mode , which I guess is technically a class 2 throttle, probably does not change my class 3 classification. I think at most it would be an undefined class, like a 3.5 or something, but its clearly not a class 4 and still is legal under federal law. For the powerfly 5, however, you are looking at a class 1 ebike and the walk mode throttle brings it up to class 2, which while legal federally, may not be legal in every state.

So my theory: Walk mode is only enabled on class 2 and 3 ebikes because it doesn't change its classification, but isn't enabled on class 1 ebikes because that technically brings them up to a class 2 under current laws.

 

[BikeMike]

I might have just figured something out.

federal law states that an ebike can't go over 20mph on its own power. 28mph ebikes use a motor only powerful enough to go 20 on its own power, but with human assistance that same motor is powerful enough to go 28.

As far as I know, NV mostly follows CA, in that:
Class1: up to 20mph pedal assit
Class2: up to 20mph pedal assist and/or up to 20mph throttle
Class3: up to 28mph pedal assist
Class4: Throttle over 20mph or pedal assist over 28mph = moped

Using this classification, My ebike from the factory is a class 3, and the addition of walk mode , which I guess is technically a class 2 throttle, probably does not change my class 3 classification. I think at most it would be an undefined class, like a 3.5 or something, but its clearly not a class 4 and still is legal under federal law. For the powerfly 5, however, you are looking at a class 1 ebike and the walk mode throttle brings it up to class 2, which while legal federally, may not be legal in every state.

So my theory: Walk mode is only enabled on class 2 and 3 ebikes because it doesn't change its classification, but isn't enabled on class 1 ebikes because that technically brings them up to a class 2 under current laws.

Agreed. I think it is not very straightforward.

 

[BikeMike]

Spoke with Trek today. If the battery needs warranty:

1. The local dealer would order a battery through Bosch. Trek does not stock the batteries.
2. I Need to contact Bosch to see if Bosch USA stocks the battery, or if it comes from overseas.
3. I cannot buy a Bosch replacement battery from Trek.
4. Trek is not involved with the electronics, at all. That is entirely the responsibility of the dealer.
5. Typically Trek orders the battery a year before. That is the lead time for Trek!

• This does not make me feel very good.

 

[chriskmee]

Its like any other part, right? If a part breaks, I wouldn't be surprised if the dealer had to order replacement parts since they don't carry every part in stock. That battery and motor are the same exact ones that is used in other brand bikes. Trek doesn't specialize the motor or battery, they get them from Bosch and install them.

 

[BikeMike]

Its like any other part, right? If a part breaks, I wouldn't be surprised if the dealer had to order replacement parts since they don't carry every part in stock. That battery and motor are the same exact ones that is used in other brand bikes. Trek doesn't specialize the motor or battery, they get them from Bosch and install them.

The dealer told me they are currently unavailable in the USA. So, even the dealer has no access.

More detail here: https://electricbikereview.com/foru...-bosch-powertube-500-wh-arrives-in-usa.24572/

 

[bob armani]

Spoke with Trek today. If the battery needs warranty:

1. The local dealer would order a battery through Bosch. Trek does not stock the batteries.
2. I Need to contact Bosch to see if Bosch USA stocks the battery, or if it comes from overseas.
3. I cannot buy a Bosch replacement battery from Trek.
4. Trek is not involved with the electronics, at all. That is entirely the responsibility of the dealer.
5. Typically Trek orders the battery a year before. That is the lead time for Trek!

• This does not make me feel very good.

Surprising but valuable info from Trek. Jumpin thru hoops does not sound like a good way to handle C/S issues for an E-bike. Hard to say who has instituted these silly rules, however does not sound like anyone wants to handle it directly. You would think you could simply go to the dealer or through Trek corporate and it would be a done deal. Not sure why they cannot open up the channels that way for a positive customer experience.

 

[BikeMike]

Surprising but valuable info from Trek. Jumpin thru hoops does not sound like a good way to handle C/S issues for an E-bike. Hard to say who has instituted these silly rules, however does not sound like anyone wants to handle it directly. You would think you could simply go to the dealer or through Trek corporate and it would be a done deal. Not sure why they cannot open up the channels that way for a positive customer experience.

I think the global shortage of eBike batteries has come true. Really bums me out!

I just called Bosch. They could not help me. They told me to contact the dealer.

I send an email to Bosch. Let's see what the email response is.

I put more info here: Any idea when Bosch PowerTube 500 wh arrives in USA?

 

[BikeMike]

1. The dealer claims that in January, Bosch will release a new head display unit for about $300 that will display the exact battery charge as a percentage.
2. Who knows when that will actually arrive in the USA.
3. No way to display battery charge percentage with the Purion.

• This does not encourage me in any way. In fact, it kinda pisses me off. I was hoping for a software update for the Purion.

 

[chriskmee]

I didn't read your post close enough. My bike uses the powerpack 500 and I could probably buy another one of those today, it looks like the shortage is specific to the tube batteries, which seem to be much less common.

It does suck that the tube batteries are so much harder to get. Is a bike that has a powerpack 500 out of the question? The bikes with the power pack are still rainproof, just might require a bit more drying when you get home

 

[BikeMike]

I didn't read your post close enough. My bike uses the powerpack 500 and I could probably buy another one of those today, it looks like the shortage is specific to the tube batteries, which seem to be much less common.

It does suck that the tube batteries are so much harder to get. Is a bike that has a powerpack 500 out of the question? The bikes with the power pack are still rainproof, just might require a bit more drying when you get home

That's OK. I also got that impression. Everybody is like that at times.

I prefer that the battery have the protection from the elements. I get around just fine on my ordinary bikes. My average speed was 18mph through the hills with 1000 feet of altitude change on the mostly downhill part. 13mph on the return. The whole trip is 25 miles. I hit 33mph a few times. I am totally happy with my ordinary bikes. I might not have as much fun on an Ebike, or i might have twice as much fun. But i still love both of my bikes.

I really need all the pieces to come together. They just are not falling together yet. The total bill is more expensive than my other carbon bikes. Gives me a case of sticker shock. It's just not working out. No need to push it. It will work out one day. Just extremely frustrating.

 

[BikeMike]

I didn't read your post close enough. My bike uses the powerpack 500 and I could probably buy another one of those today, it looks like the shortage is specific to the tube batteries, which seem to be much less common.

It does suck that the tube batteries are so much harder to get. Is a bike that has a powerpack 500 out of the question? The bikes with the power pack are still rainproof, just might require a bit more drying when you get home

You may have helped me out. I complained loudly to the dealer today. I did mention your case with Walk Mode.

More importantly, i beat him over the head. I told him he probably misunderstands Trek's policy. That is:

• The motors must be imported with walk mode disabled, due to federal law.
• Local dealers may use the diagnostics software to enable walk mode, if it conforms to state law.

I think he misunderstands due to all the confusion.

I now know he does not understand CO law. CO Law gives the local government final say. In my County, they are perfectly legal. Maybe I should bail on this shop?

https://www.jeffco.us/3618/e-bikes

I do not think they want to work for my business. I think they rely on what the Trek rep says. If The Trek rep is mistaken, then the shop is lazy for not double checking. The law changed 18 months ago, which is too long ago to still be in dark.

Something very wrong, that makes me very apprehensive. However you look at it, the LBS is not going to bat for me. I cannot trust them to fight for me over warranty issues.

This experience also brings us the question of service and distribution. Both of which are poor. I told them the current situation is unacceptable. They probably get away with enough due to ignorance or inexperience that they are willing to gamble because the profit is so high. But they took their chances and lost. A big crap shoot.

I think the stores problem is financial. The store is massive. I wondered how they could hold so much inventory. Literally, over a thousand bikes on walls and floor. They are also owned by Vail Resorts, which is a giant company, not a big ski area. OK, Vail wants a summer business, so they got into bicycles. I think the way they cover the financial expenses is to cut back on staff and service. Their employees must have better training. At a very minimum, they need to understand how the law affects their business.

They are under a lot of pressure move that inventory quickly, because it is a massive investment. They have to hold it over the winter months. I bet you can get a great deals there after Christmas!

I now disbelieve what they told me about Trek's 300 pound weight limit. The shop told me the rep said it was OK. However, the Trek web site makes a loud statement not to exceed 300 pounds. I believe the salesman lied to me. I could get hurt because i coast down the hill at 18-22mph without pedalling.

So, the final analysis is the bike with a trailer does not work as a car replacement for a 210 pound guy. I am still open to using panniers, but that means a lot of short trips. I can deal with that because I can bike there on my ordinary bikes in five minutes.

 

[BikeMike]

Here is my work around to get the Nyon on my bike. I do not believe this will void the warranty.

A hard requirement for me is the display of battery charge as a percentage. I always want to keep the battery between 40% to 90% charged. With the $1000 cost of the PowerTube replacement battery, i am investing in batteries as much as bike, over its entire life. I will buy a second battery at the same time as the bike.

https://electricbikereview.com/foru...ntuvia-head-unit-any-actual-experience.24630/