Pinion Motor.Gearbox.Unit (MGU)

onlineaddy

onlineaddy

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
San Diego, CA, USA
The newly announced Pinion Motor.Gearbox.Unit is sure to quickly overshadow the Valeo system. I honestly would sell all my current e-bikes and replace them with one or two (1 MTB, 1 commuter/trekking) with this MGU.

Here are some news coverage of this new unit:
And videos:
 
Let us see what the Future holds.
To make a success, Pinion would need to convince big manufacturing players. Yes, I can see TREK jumping on the new contraption and adding the SEVENTH e-bike system to their quiver :D Oh, wait. They need to add the 8th system, that is, Bosch SX to their line, too! :D
 
Stefan Mikes said:
Let us see what the Future holds.
To make a success, Pinion would need to convince big manufacturing players. Yes, I can see TREK jumping on the new contraption and adding the SEVENTH e-bike system to their quiver :D Oh, wait. They need to add the 8th system, that is, Bosch SX to their line, too! :D
Click to expand...
Yeah, but it's a massive bombshell according to video #2
 
rich c said:
Yeah, but it's a massive bombshell according to video #2
Click to expand...
I'd like to hear opinion of the riders after 1 year since the purchase.
"My Pinion e-bike delivers no assistance. What should I do?"
"There's an oil leak from the motor. The technical support does not answer my e-mails"
:)
Never heard that for other revolutionary systems?
 
Stefan Mikes said:
I'd like to hear opinion of the riders after 1 year since the purchase.
"My Pinion e-bike delivers no assistance. What should I do?"
"There's an oil leak from the motor. The technical support does not answer my e-mails"
:)
Never heard that for other revolutionary systems?
Click to expand...

Pinion have been building gearboxes for analogue bikes like zerode for ages ( at least 10 years) , good luck finding internet discussions about issues. They have a great reputation.
 
Always a fan of letting others be early adopters, but I certainly love the promise it holds.

I know I'm not the only one that has thought having gears integrated with the motor just makes sense from a drivetrain perspective.
 
Motor / gearbox looks very interesting but have to say the KETTLER PINNIATO HT COMFORT is equally underwhelming. No way I would drop $7K on a hard tail with those components weighing close to 65 pounds.
 
TomD said:
Motor / gearbox looks very interesting but have to say the KETTLER PINNIATO HT COMFORT is equally underwhelming. No way I would drop $7K on a hard tail with those components weighing close to 65 pounds.
Click to expand...
Give me a full suspension version of that bike with the MCU and the belt, and I would :)
 
PDoz said:
Pinion have been building gearboxes for analogue bikes like zerode for ages ( at least 10 years) , good luck finding internet discussions about issues. They have a great reputation.
Click to expand...
Rohloff was great until they delivered their R14 for e-bikes. Pinion has just built their two early motor prototypes. They even do not own the battery or display! Who makes and owns the controller?

We all might be riding e-bikes with motors similar to MGU in a few years, or, we could be laughing at how naieve we had been. I simply do not believe in "revolutionary inventions" when it comes to e-bikes. Pinion is a company of a certain size. Now fancy the Big Three all want the MGU. Will Pinion grow to the size they could deliver as many systems as to satisfy the OEM demand? What quality control issues are expected in the future?

I am not overly enthusiastic. It is the time that has to pass to prove or bust the new patent. What if Pinion goes belly down? Haven't we had so many fantastic systems such as Bionx or Continental? Now, everybody is delighted with Pinion MGU. I need to hear a user experience report first to get carried away. Note: I was very slow with buying a Vado SL and only decided to buy after I heard no negative reports and could try the e-bike myself.

Now, no-one here has even touched an MGU e-bike. Did they mention the battery size? What is the motor peak power?
 
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Stefan Mikes said:
Rohloff was great until they delivered their R14 for e-bikes.

We all might be riding e-bikes with motors similar to MGU in a few years, or, we could be laughing at how naieve we had been. I simply do not believe in "revolutionary inventions" when it comes to e-bikes. Pinion is a company of a certain size. Now fancy the Big Three all want the MGU. Will Pinion grow to the size they could deliver as many systems as to satisfy the OEM demand? What quality control issues are expected in the future?

I am not overly enthusiastic. It is the time to prove or bust the new patent. What if Pinion goes belly down? Haven't we had so many fantastic systems such as Bionx or Continental? Now, everybody is delighted with Pinion MGU. I need to hear a user experience report first to get carried away. Note: I was very slow with buying a Vado SL and only decided to buy after I heard no negative reports and could try the e-bike myself.

Now, no-one here has even touched an MGU e-bike. Did they mention the battery size?
Click to expand...
There is a saying in French

With "IFs" we could put Paris in a Bottle :)

They did mention the various battery sizes
"the FIT ecosystem includes the Ultracore range of batteries with 480, 720 and 960Wh options as well as a range 468Wh extender"
 
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Rob managed to snag one and take it for a quick spin around the car park at Eurobike.


I think it's a big leap. A moment. This isn't a prototype. You can buy the bike he's on for €8,999 right now (or shortly I think) which although far out of my pocket, is not bad price for today. Comparable to many Bosch full fat full sus bikes. I think that's what is interesting - it's real, it must therefore work (time & trails will tell) and it's a reliable company with a great reputation & gearbox track record. Who knows if Pinion will change the industry but looking at the response so far, a lot of people are interested. This is making waves. Plus as German engineers, Pinion does not toy with new gizmos. For ten years they've made a only 2 gearboxes (each with different gear ratios) and that's about it. So this is a massive departure for them. but for years people who use bike gear boxes have been saying that ebikes will be the perfect partner for gear boxes as weight is not an issue as it is under human pedal power. But so far a pinion with a hub motor hasn't felt clean or a good match (to me).

Plus looking at videos from the show today a number of other motor manufacturers seem to have their own motor/gearbox prototypes. I'd say it's looking likely this will be very popular. And agreed Antboy, bound to be version 1 issues and yes Stefan they will need a strong warranty system in place. I mean Pinions are famous for needing no maintenance and having no issues, but the motor and gear box plus all the sophisticated electronics/sensors etc under the one roof is literally having all your eggs in one basket!

But here's where I think it'll be hugely popular; in a full sus SUV bike, like the Tero X. Commuting through the winter, 20miles each way say, on dark wet days with built in lights and mudguards and racks and suspension for 20 miles of bumps but then the drive train on the Tero X getting filthy with all the road grease and mud. Day after day. The Tero X already looks a fantastic go anywhere comfortable SUV bike for a long bad road commute in winter. Having the large Pinion gear range and sealed - maintenance free - drive train would be very welcome I bet.
 
Stefan Mikes said:
Rohloff was great until they delivered their R14 for e-bikes. Pinion has just built their two early motor prototypes. They even do not own the battery or display! Who makes and owns the controller?

We all might be riding e-bikes with motors similar to MGU in a few years, or, we could be laughing at how naieve we had been. I simply do not believe in "revolutionary inventions" when it comes to e-bikes. Pinion is a company of a certain size. Now fancy the Big Three all want the MGU. Will Pinion grow to the size they could deliver as many systems as to satisfy the OEM demand? What quality control issues are expected in the future?

I am not overly enthusiastic. It is the time that has to pass to prove or bust the new patent. What if Pinion goes belly down? Haven't we had so many fantastic systems such as Bionx or Continental? Now, everybody is delighted with Pinion MGU. I need to hear a user experience report first to get carried away. Note: I was very slow with buying a Vado SL and only decided to buy after I heard no negative reports and could try the e-bike myself.

Now, no-one here has even touched an MGU e-bike. Did they mention the battery size? What is the motor peak power?
Click to expand...
Stefan - in fairness, you were one of the first people I came across on here and I'd either just got my first (and only so far) ebike my Vado SL, or was about to get it and you were - equally- disapproving of SL bikes! I recall reading your comments that you didn't think the Vado Sl were a good idea. Couldn't see the point of having a small motor and battery! Now just a couple of years later and here you are winning 500K gravel races on your SL! I suspect you are just naturally negative or cautious on any new departure from the norm, and no harm in that- going to be a lot of testing needed on the Pinion to see if it has any serious problems.

I don't think Pinion would mess around without totally believing in this. For sure they might screw up. It's a tough business. And compared to the big four they are tiny. But It looks great. Looks like it works. Which means even if the business side has issues (scaling up/ warrenty/returns etc) I would say already that combined motors/gear boxes by some manufacturer are now here. And I kinda hope it works for Pinion, however that success looks. Maybe it'll be like Fazua getting bought by Porsche. Or E Bike Motion bought by the giant that is Mahle. Lets see.
 
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Yes, lots of info out there already, including:
  • power
  • weight
  • battery capacity options
  • 9- and 12-gear variants
  • wireless shifting
  • two smart shift modes (optional to use)
  • ability to shift at standstill or in motion (including under power, where it shifts when crank arms are at 12- and 6-o'clock)
  • display choices
  • bike manufacturing partners
etc.
 
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Looks fantastic, and definitely, Pinion has done a great job. This is the kind of technological development that we need to see.
I hope this is affordable enough, or else it might stay niche within the E-bike segment.
Not available in the stateside until mid-2025. So, we can expect some changes by then and also new competition.
 
Rás Cnoic said:
Stefan - in fairness, you were one of the first people I came across on here and I'd either just got my first (and only so far) ebike my Vado SL, or was about to get it and you were - equally- disapproving of SL bikes! I recall reading your comments that you didn't think the Vado Sl were a good idea. Couldn't see the point of having a small motor and battery! Now just a couple of years later and here you are winning 500K gravel races on your SL! I suspect you are just naturally negative or cautious on any new departure from the norm, and no harm in that- going to be a lot of testing needed on the Pinion to see if it has any serious problems.
Click to expand...
I was saying Vado SL was an e-bike for a healthy person and the battery charge was too small for my needs. Today the total nominal capacity of all SL batteries I own is 960 Wh. Did I prove my points of the past? I was saying Vado SL was not for me but was saying that e-bike had its market.

Also, I'm not winning races. I'm completing them. Not races but a single race. Not 500k but 250 km. With 74 km ridden on a Vado 6.0, otherwise I would have no time to recharge all SL batteries.

There is an old joke about Soviet Russia:
– Reportedly, they give away cars in Leningrad?
– First of all, it is not Leningrad but Moscow. Secondly, it is not cars but bicycles. Thirdly, they do not give them away. They steal them.
😁

People here are so enthusiastic about Pinion MGU. When any of you buys a MGU e-bike, I will ask for experiences. Before, it is all marketing.
 
Rás Cnoic said:
Rob managed to snag one and take it for a quick spin around the car park at Eurobike.


I think it's a big leap. A moment. This isn't a prototype. You can buy the bike he's on for €8,999 right now (or shortly I think) which although far out of my pocket, is not bad price for today. Comparable to many Bosch full fat full sus bikes. I think that's what is interesting - it's real, it must therefore work (time & trails will tell) and it's a reliable company with a great reputation & gearbox track record. Who knows if Pinion will change the industry but looking at the response so far, a lot of people are interested. This is making waves. Plus as German engineers, Pinion does not toy with new gizmos. For ten years they've made a only 2 gearboxes (each with different gear ratios) and that's about it. So this is a massive departure for them. but for years people who use bike gear boxes have been saying that ebikes will be the perfect partner for gear boxes as weight is not an issue as it is under human pedal power. But so far a pinion with a hub motor hasn't felt clean or a good match (to me).

Plus looking at videos from the show today a number of other motor manufacturers seem to have their own motor/gearbox prototypes. I'd say it's looking likely this will be very popular. And agreed Antboy, bound to be version 1 issues and yes Stefan they will need a strong warranty system in place. I mean Pinions are famous for needing no maintenance and having no issues, but the motor and gear box plus all the sophisticated electronics/sensors etc under the one roof is literally having all your eggs in one basket!

But here's where I think it'll be hugely popular; in a full sus SUV bike, like the Tero X. Commuting through the winter, 20miles each way say, on dark wet days with built in lights and mudguards and racks and suspension for 20 miles of bumps but then the drive train on the Tero X getting filthy with all the road grease and mud. Day after day. The Tero X already looks a fantastic go anywhere comfortable SUV bike for a long bad road commute in winter. Having the large Pinion gear range and sealed - maintenance free - drive train would be very welcome I bet.
Click to expand...
It sounds and looks very promising. There will always be skeptics but for me I do appreciate how e-bikes have evolved and Pinion only helps to solidify that ideal. That being said, I look forward to a more thorough field test from Rob when he takes the FS Simplon out on his local trails. 👍
 
Prairie Dog said:
It sounds and looks very promising. There will always be skeptics but for me I do appreciate how e-bikes have evolved and Pinion only helps to solidify that ideal. That being said, I look forward to a more thorough field test from Rob when he takes the FS Simplon out on his local trails. 👍
Click to expand...
I can remember Rob being overly enthusiastic with his review of a TQ HPR 120 motor. Any news on that motor?
All I say is: Do not get carried away people. Wait and see.
 
Stefan, we're not getting carried away.

I've been hoping for this since 2018 , I even delayed buying my first emtb ( the giant pwx) , because I'd seen a zerode with pinion drive, and I knew an engineer working with another company that produced gearboxes for ebikes.....I almost gave up a couple of years back , so I bought the levo sl ,

At the time, it was looking like the mainstream were chasing either whatevers or weight. But I've kept watching, and the ONLY reason I'd not recently upgraded my levo sl is because I'd heard rumours this was close.( hence why I had posted in the emtb section a week ago)

So I'm keeping my old levo sl, watching for the next 6/12 months, and waiting for achance to try a few out on the trail. I firmly believe in the future of an integrated motor / gearbox - dump the derailleur . ESPECIALY for emtb's - every pinion / zerode rider I meet raves about the bike - not just the reliable gearbox, but how much better the rear end rides. Removing 600 - 900 gms of unsprung weight - that's worth $thousands. Add in extra reliability AND the ability to change gears without spinning cranks - these are a no brainer .

I don't expect them to be mainstream for a few years, but I hope there is a reasonably sorted option by next year
 
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