Okay, talk me out of cancelling my CCS order

[Reid]

Why is 100% of a 48V pack more than 48V

Because 48V is a nominal capacity. Name only. Like most all batteries, when fully charged they are at some, particular, upper voltage figure. As the battery discharges, the voltage drops. The nominal voltage is a mean voltage level between fully charged and the low voltage.

 

[Chris Hammond]

Thanks Reid, I should added that rating is a nominal. Cells are 3.6V nominal x 13 = 46.8V. For marketing purposes battery makers rounded this up to 48V. This is largely a holdover from the lead acid battery days where batteries were rated in 12V increments, and the lithium batteries were made to conform to those standards.

 

[Asher]

Thanks Reid, I should added that rating is a nominal. Cells are 3.6V nominal x 13 = 46.8V. For marketing purposes battery makers rounded this up to 48V. This is largely a holdover from the lead acid battery days where batteries were rated in 12V increments, and the lithium batteries were made to conform to those standards.

Nominal voltage is 3.7. 3.7*13 = 48.1

 

[Bruce Arnold]

I'm so glad you finally got your bike and are enjoying it so much! I also appreciate the information on performance that you're sharing.

 

[Darrin NC]

Hey Chris need an update on the bike for those of us still waiting. Battery range, top speed, any other over all things we should know about.
Thanks

 

[Chris Hammond]

Okay, I'm at 154 total miles. I have only commuted on Thursday and this morning so far. (Weather was horrible Friday so I skipped the bike). At any rate, my 30 mile commute seems to be averaging a bit over 500 Wh of battery use so far using primarily modes 2 and 3, and average speed while riding of 26-28. Level 2 really does seem to be the sweet spot from an overall speed/ efficiency standpoint. I can keep speeds over 24 most of the time and when hills get a little steeper and start slowing me down I just bump to level 3 and occasionally S. Top speed this morning was 33.6.
Riding over the weekend was very casual. I had my 12 year old son riding the CCS with me on my road bike. With him in Eco mode we are able to keep pace with one another pretty well, although he did leave me behind climbing hills, which he loved. I let him try S mode a couple of times when conditions allowed safely and he said he went over 30, I have to believe him because I was far behind.
Only issue so far is my rear derailleur is slightly out of tune this morning. I don't know if my son moved the barrel adjuster or if the cable has stretched a bit. Hopefully I'll have a little time at lunch to get it back in tune.
Otherwise the bike is everything I had hoped for. I have only been charging the battery to 80% and range has not even been close to being a problem so far.

 

[tomjasz]

Thanks Reid, I should added that rating is a nominal. Cells are 3.6V nominal x 13 = 46.8V. For marketing purposes battery makers rounded this up to 48V. This is largely a holdover from the lead acid battery days where batteries were rated in 12V increments, and the lithium batteries were made to conform to those standards.

Reading spec sheets there are slight differences uninominal ratings, but largely of no concern. 3.6 or 3.7, meh!

 

[Asher]

Okay, I'm at 154 total miles. I have only commuted on Thursday and this morning so far. (Weather was horrible Friday so I skipped the bike). At any rate, my 30 mile commute seems to be averaging a bit over 500 Wh of battery use so far using primarily modes 2 and 3, and average speed while riding of 26-28. Level 2 really does seem to be the sweet spot from an overall speed/ efficiency standpoint. I can keep speeds over 24 most of the time and when hills get a little steeper and start slowing me down I just bump to level 3 and occasionally S. Top speed this morning was 33.6.
Riding over the weekend was very casual. I had my 12 year old son riding the CCS with me on my road bike. With him in Eco mode we are able to keep pace with one another pretty well, although he did leave me behind climbing hills, which he loved. I let him try S mode a couple of times when conditions allowed safely and he said he went over 30, I have to believe him because I was far behind.
Only issue so far is my rear derailleur is slightly out of tune this morning. I don't know if my son moved the barrel adjuster or if the cable has stretched a bit. Hopefully I'll have a little time at lunch to get it back in tune.
Otherwise the bike is everything I had hoped for. I have only been charging the battery to 80% and range has not even been close to being a problem so far.

Yeah, given how much people are actually to bike in a single day, a 1 kwh battery makes range a non-issue, especially if you keep it on lower levels of assist*. Continuing to shill 500 watt hour batteries (with no option for more) is probably the dumbest thing about most of the ebike industry, they're shooting themselves in the foot.

People with long bike commutes (10+ miles) may need to recharge at work, especially if they're trying to keep the battery within healthy ranges, but that's not too hard when you're at work for 4-8 hours.

*The CCS's *lowest* level of assist is at the middle to top of other bike's assist.

 

[Darrin NC]

Thanks for all your guys info. In a few weeks I may be able to ad additional info.

 

[Chris Hammond]

Rain ride report.
So my commute home today had me riding in a reasonably hard rainstorm for about 20 minutes. I had forgotten that riding in the rain can be so enjoyable. Once you are really wet, you quit worrying about it, and just enjoy the cool ride without sweating. The CCS is a great bike on wet roads. I was really impressed by the grip of the stock Kendas. I felt safe and comfortable at 30 mph, and really didn't feel the need to lower my speed. The fenders do a great job of keeping road splatter off you. I was really pleased. When I have been caught on my road bike in the rain, I slowed down due to lack of tire grip and obviously I was going a lot slower to begin with.

Also, an update on ride performance. I will add pics from my bike computer, but this bike is really quite awesome. I rode home mostly in level 3 with a fair amount of S especially while climbing. This is the part that truly sets this bike apart. Near the end of my ride, there is a smallish (by Utah standards) climb around "Point of the Mountain" which averages ~4% grade for about 3.5 miles. On my road bike my speeds range from 10-18 mph depending on the slope. In S mode I was maintaing ~ 28 mph nearly the entire climb, and the lowest speed was ~25. This is really a fun way to climb a hill btw. Unfortunately I forgot to reset the trip on my controller, so I don't know the Wh usage, but battery volts were at 49.3V when I plugged into my Satiator. 49.3V is just below 45%, and considering I started a 80% I am quite pleased.
Also something I noticed near the end of my ride on the downhill side. The bike was not really assisting me above 32 mph, I was pedalling hard downhill and the controller showed less than 30 watts coming from the battery. I am not sure if this was a reult of the battery voltage being below 50%, or if something else is going on. I did check and the speed limit setting after my ride and it was at 35. I changed it to 40 just in case. At any rate, accelerating from a stop in level 3 or S is great. I am up to 25+ at the same rate as the cars accelerating from the light. I think all this power has an element of safety that it provides the rider. I can be ahead of traffic from the light if I need to be, or can just take the lane knowing I am not slowing people down. I have only used the throttle once, on the day I got the bike. I'd probably remove it except my 12 year old uses it to help him get in the saddle.

 

[Asher]

I had forgotten that riding in the rain can be so enjoyable. Once you are really wet, you quit worrying about it, and just enjoy the cool ride without sweating.

Yes you can always ferret out the phonies and separate the wheat from the chaff by seeing who likes to ride in the rain .

Even if it's coming down hard, if you strap on some nylon overpants, it's actually fun. Wind, not so much. I once stopped midride, but only because it was hailing and it felt like I was getting constantly slapped in the face. Stopped a couple minutes later.

 

[LS3Miata]

Somehow along the way I learned to get out of the rain. But, to each his own.

While its sometimes hard to interpret intent with written words, your response to Asher seems a bit condescending. Hopefully that wasn’t your intent.

 

[Asher]

While its sometimes hard to interpret intent with written words, your response to Asher seems a bit condescending. Hopefully that wasn’t your intent.

Recreational vs utility riders .

I do zero recreational riding (why would I when ride 100 miles a week?) - but I love riding my bike to get places .

 

[tomjasz]

Really? A phony when I choose to not ride in the rain? Heck I ride in below freezing weather, but not in snow either. Let's not reduce this to the kinds of judgements and name calling. I've now built several dozen bikes. But remain a phony. BTW many systems will not do well in extremely wet conditions.

 

[Chris Hammond]

I say to each his own. Live and let live.

On a different topic: My first week of CCS ownership report.
I got my CCS with 52V battery last Wednesday.
Total miles = 295
Impressions: The bike is a great high speed commuter. I have mostly been commuting in level 2 and 3. This provides me a cruising speed from 24 to 30 mph in most circumstances. I tried the bike with the power off, and its commuter design does show through well. On flats and slight downhills I found myself going 1-3 mph slower than I would've been on my road bike, uphill you really pay for the extra weight and the bike slows quite a bit. However, it demonstrates that it would be possible to ride home if there were a battery or motor issue.
I have been averaging ~ 550 Wh for my 30 mile one way commute. This works out to ~18.3 watts/mile which is lower than I was expecting as my research had me expecting ~30 watts/ mi at 28 mph. Not sure if this is do to the stops and average speed being lower. (Average speeds have ranged from 22 to 25 for the full route.)
Top assisted speed is ~ 32 to 34 depending on battery charge. Unsure if a full charge will improve this, will test when I finally fully charge the battery. Only been charging to 80% thus far.
Maintenance concerns: had a few loose rear spokes, rear derailleur out of tune after my son's ride, both easily corrected; rear taillight shorted out, Juiced sending out a new one; only other concern is quieting the fenders when hitting bumps at high speeds.
Overall I couldn't be happier with the bike, so glad I waited.

 

[Alaskan]

It seems that if anyone could talk you out of a CSS it would be all the people who have bought one, and reported on this forum so much trouble with appallingly bad warranty and customer service. It costs money to properly stand behind your products and it is apparent that Juiced has neither the commitment not the capital to properly stand behind their products. Yet one more unfortunate example of getting what you pay for or not getting what you didn't pay for. I for one am always willing to pay more for a product that has a reputation for good warranty service. In this era of customer feedback and forums, companies that get a bad reputation for service usually don't survive.

 

[KAM1952]

Juiced has taken care of all my sons warranty concerns (CCA )
beyond expectations ,so far at 500 miles I haven't had any for my CCS.

 

[Asher]

It seems that if anyone could talk you out of a CSS it would be all the people who have bought one, and reported on this forum so much trouble with appallingly bad warranty and customer service. It costs money to properly stand behind your products and it is apparent that Juiced has neither the commitment not the capital to properly stand behind their products. Yet one more unfortunate example of getting what you pay for or not getting what you didn't pay for. I for one am always willing to pay more for a product that has a reputation for good warranty service. In this era of customer feedback and forums, companies that get a bad reputation for service usually don't survive.

Do you have any evidence that Juiced has a low satisfaction rate (say, below 60%) among its customers?

 

[Alaskan]

Do you have any evidence that Juiced has a low satisfaction rate (say, below 60%) among its customers?

only what I have been reading lately in this forum. It seems that there have been numerous and frequent complaints here about lack of communication and responsiveness from Juices posted by new Juiced customers. Based on specs and reviews, I have been recommending that friends look at Juiced bikes as a lower priced alternative to European made bikes. However, I have been reading way too many gripes here on this forum from recent Juiced customers about lousy service to continue recommending them. My "evidence" has come from the Juiced bike brand treads on this forum.

 

[Asher]

only what I have been reading lately in this forum. It seems that there have been numerous and frequent complaints here about lack of communication and responsiveness from Juices posted by new Juiced customers. Based on specs and reviews, I have been recommending that friends look at Juiced bikes as a lower priced alternative to European made bikes. However, I have been reading way too many gripes here on this forum from recent Juiced customers about lousy service to continue recommending them. My "evidence" has come from the Juiced bike brand treads on this forum.

They are the exception, and a couple of them post incessantly (Rooster and Lenny). If buying a Juiced is like playing Russian Roulette, you're not playing with 5 bullets in a six bullet cylinder... Not saying these things don't happen, but just giving a sense of scale. I had a technical issue and Juiced reimbursed me immediately ($20).