NUVINCI N380, REVIEW AND QUESTIONS

[Sandee]

This is partly a review of my opinion of the NuVinci N380 transmission and partly a request for help understanding this system better.

I have a Evelo Luna bicycle with the NuVinci N380. I love the Evelo company but I'm not so crazy about the NuVinci transmission. I had trouble with the NuVinci when my bike was almost new and Evelo sent me a brand new N380 to replace the defective N360. After riding this bike for over 2 years I am still struggling to understand the shifting system. I find the highest gear to be the most efficient and the one I almost always use. The problem with that though, other than the fact it probably isn't the best option for the motor, is it won't stay in this high gear position. After about a mile of riding the shifter "drifts" a bit. Not much but enough that you can feel you are no longer in the highest gear and you have to turn the terrain indicator back. I've had this problem since the bike was new. I've contacted Evelo and they suggested tightening the cables. I've done that and it has helped a lot but it still isn't 100%. Evelo told me if this didn't help, they would send me a new shifter. This is part of what makes this a wonderful company but I really don't think that would help anything. I think the problem is with the NuVinci system itself.

And now let's talk about the lower gears. I find them almost useless. When I'm going up a hill and I downshift a bit, all it does is slow me up. Sure the pedaling is easier but you lose so much momentum you still have to switch your electric assist to a higher number (like 4 or 5) just to get up the hill. If I leave the transmission in the highest gear and adjust the electric assist to a higher number it does the same thing. So what is the point of the lower gears? I don't want to put too much load on the motor but I don't want to be pedaling like a maniac either. And some of these variable low gears are so low you'd have to be going up a vertical wall in order for them to be of any use at all.

I'm a 66 year old female and this is my first electric bike. I realize this could be part of the problem. I've tried finding information on line that could help me use the NuVinci transmission more effectively but I haven't had much luck. Any thoughts out there? Is this the nature of the NuVinci system or am I not adjusting the gears properly?

Sandee

 

[Trail Cruiser]

Most likely you over downshifted and your ratio becomes less optimal. It is tricky to achieve optimal ratio on the hills if you have a mid drive without knowing the power curve of your mid drive motor.

Using a cadence meter helps a lot instead of riding and shifting by "feel". You can convert a cheap cyclometer into a cadence meter by hooking the magnet to the chain ring or pedal crank.

Different mid drive motors have their own optimal operating RPM range and if you pedal beyond those limits you will run slower on the hills.

I had a tranz-x mid drive that was optimal between 60-80 RPM, beyond 80 RPM the assist is not very good so I had to upshift. Below 60 rpm, I had to down shift.

My BBSHD with 52 volt has a broader range from 65-95 RPM.

You have to map out the power curve of your ebike so you will know your optimum cadence to climb a hill. You can do it by making first hand observation and taking note at which RPM/cadence has the strongest assist.

 

[Al P]

I have the N360 transmission, which works basically the same way as yours, except it is not automatic. If I downshift too far the cadence goes way up and the bike barely moves. I believe you have the 250w motor in the Luna, which is what I have in the Aurora. In my opinion, it is just not strong enough to propel these relatively heavy bikes uphill without increasing the PAS substantially. The type of Nuvinci transmission really doesn't matter in this case.

 

[Sandee]

Thank you for your comments. From what was said here I feel I have a better understanding of my bike and how it performs. For the most part I can get by OK. I really noticed the difference after my husband bought his first e-bike. He got a Radcity. It was only about half the cost of my bike with much more power. However, mine in prettier

Sandee

 

[Saratoga Dave]

Holy cow, JayVee, every time I look at one of your climbing videos I get short of breath!

How does a Rohloff stack up against your hills with the Bosch system? Have you been able to try that? I’m still planning on putting a 42 cog on my Trek Xm700 at some point to help overcome the torque limitation of the Performance Speed when things get steep in the Adirondacks.

 

[rannyv]

The NuVinci 380 with a belt drive seems nice in theory, but I tried several bikes with it and found it heavy and it just didn't feel as good as derailleur equipped bike. Having ridden bikes my entire life, using a derailleur is second nature. There's a bit of maintenance, but the most efficient, cost effective for changing gear ratios. I've also used internal hubs on an e-bike and as long as you remember to back off when shifting, they work well for on-road riding in all but the hilliest situations.

 

[Sandee]

I agree with you, rannyv. Another thing that I don't like about the NuVinci is it doesn't stay in the highest gear. I have to continually turn back the shifter or hang on to the shifter while riding to keep it from drifting out of the highest gear. Tightening the cables helps but doesn't completely eliminate this annoying little problem.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

...
How does a Rohloff stack up against your hills with the Bosch system? Have you been able to try that? I’m still planning on putting a 42 cog on my Trek Xm700 at some point to help overcome the torque limitation of the Performance Speed when things get steep in the Adirondacks.

I have a Rohloff hub and a Bosch Performance CX and can quite comfortably climb hills with more than a 20 percent grade in Tour mode.

 

[Caladvoc8]

I have a Rohloff hub and a Bosch Performance CX and can quite comfortably climb hills with more than a 20 percent grade in Tour mode.

Noob here shopping for first e-bike purchase. Intrigued by your post indicating you have a bike with two components I am trying to find on an affordable (i.e., non- R&M) city/urban/cruise bike with a reliable 500-750W motor (Bosch, Brose) and RohLoff gear hub. After reading several posts regarding issues with NuVinci, I am trying to avoid, but remain attracted to what appears to the equivalent of automatic transmission and shying away from derailleurs. Any such animal exist? Were your components stock? On what bike? BTW, I am 6', 260 lbs, 70 yrs, with bad knees, and require a sturdy bike to support my weight and am attracted to step-over or step-thru designs for ease of mounting and dismounting. Suggestions?

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Noob here shopping for first e-bike purchase. Intrigued by your post indicating you have a bike with two components I am trying to find on an affordable (i.e., non- R&M) city/urban/cruise bike with a reliable 500-750W motor (Bosch, Brose) and RohLoff gear hub. After reading several posts regarding issues with NuVinci, I am trying to avoid, but remain attracted to what appears to the equivalent of automatic transmission and shying away from derailleurs. Any such animal exist? Were your components stock? On what bike? BTW, I am 6', 260 lbs, 70 yrs, with bad knees, and require a sturdy bike to support my weight and am attracted to step-over or step-thru designs for ease of mounting and dismounting. Suggestions?

I have an R&M Charger GX Rohloff with dual batteries. All components stock although I'm likely to start upgrading components during ski season (mainly the front brake and rear rack at this point).

You aren't going to have much luck finding a less expensive bike with a Rohloff hub. The hub itself retails for about $1300 and you'll need a custom-built rear wheel to accommodate it. Typically there is a $1000 to $1500 premium for a Rohloff hub over a more traditional derailleur.

The R&M bikes are wildly overbuilt and should accommodate your weight just fine. I wouldn't go riding down stairs or anything but otherwise you needn't worry.

 

[Caladvoc8]

I have an R&M Charger GX Rohloff with dual batteries. All components stock although I'm likely to start upgrading components during ski season (mainly the front brake and rear rack at this point).

You aren't going to have much luck finding a less expensive bike with a Rohloff hub. The hub itself retails for about $1300 and you'll need a custom-built rear wheel to accommodate it. Typically there is a $1000 to $1500 premium for a Rohloff hub over a more traditional derailleur.

The R&M bikes are wildly overbuilt and should accommodate your weight just fine. I wouldn't go riding down stairs or anything but otherwise you needn't worry.

Thanks for the input. The curious thing about the R&M bikes is that there are many more models R&M offers that have the NuVinci hubs than Rohloffs and I can't imagine they would be offering them as an available alternative if they had a tendency to fail. And the R&M NuVinci-equipped bikes are also quite pricey and more than I want to spend for the opportunity to discover whether e-biking will scratch my itch and my purchase not become an unused ornament in the garage. I spent quite awhile on the phone today with the owner of Evelo inquiring about their experiences with the NuVinci, with which they have had a lengthy history. I came away reassured that, not only will the warranty on the hub be honored by their supplier even if paired with the 750W motor (an issue raised earlier in this thread), but that what few issues they have experienced among the thousands of these units they have sold have arisen when the rear wheel is not carefully removed (by owner or shop employee - for flat repair for example) when the instructions for removal are not carefully followed. He acknowledged damage can occur if the easily followed instructions are ignored. At this point, absent some other alarm bells while I deliberate, I am leaning towards the Evelo Aurora in the "fully loaded" configuration.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

This article talks about the relative efficiency and tradeoffs of various drive systems.

I'll add a couple of things:

• In general all internally geared hub systems are very reliable
• The NuVinci has a relatively low efficiency of around 83 percent
• The Rohloff has a fairly high efficiency of around 94 percent, this compares well with the conventional wisdom that derailleur systems are around 95 percent efficient. In fact, if your derailleur is even slightly out of adjustment the Rohloff is most likely more efficient
• The Nuvinci has a narrower gear range than the Rohloff. The Rohloff is comparable in range to a road double or mountain double crankset while the Nuvinci is more like a 1x10.
• Nearly all of the gear range lost on the Nuvinci is lost on the low end of the gear range
• The Nuvinci is at its lowest efficiency at the highest and lowest ends of its gear range.

The upshot of all that is that if you don't have a lot of steep hills or very long hills to deal with and you aren't planning to ride enormous distances you'll probably do okay with a NuVinci. The only time I rode a NuVinci bike my takeaway was that the highest and lowest "gears" felt a bit "draggy".

 

[Caladvoc8]

This article talks about the relative efficiency and tradeoffs of various drive systems.

I'll add a couple of things:

• In general all internally geared hub systems are very reliable
• The NuVinci has a relatively low efficiency of around 83 percent
• The Rohloff has a fairly high efficiency of around 94 percent, this compares well with the conventional wisdom that derailleur systems are around 95 percent efficient. In fact, if your derailleur is even slightly out of adjustment the Rohloff is most likely more efficient
• The Nuvinci has a narrower gear range than the Rohloff. The Rohloff is comparable in range to a road double or mountain double crankset while the Nuvinci is more like a 1x10.
• Nearly all of the gear range lost on the Nuvinci is lost on the low end of the gear range
• The Nuvinci is at its lowest efficiency at the highest and lowest ends of its gear range.

The upshot of all that is that if you don't have a lot of steep hills or very long hills to deal with and you aren't planning to ride enormous distances you'll probably do okay with a NuVinci. The only time I rode a NuVinci bike my takeaway was that the highest and lowest "gears" felt a bit "draggy".

Again, many thanks. Very helpful.

 

[gggplaya]

I love my Nuvinci N380, I don't have the problem you're describing, however I built my bike myself so I know it's assembled perfectly. So for the 2 problems you're having, I believe they are caused by 1 thing. Tightening the cables won't help.

When installing the nuvinci hub on the bike, it has to be fully rotated and timed before the shifter assembly is installed. If it's not timed properly, you will have the issues you're having. You're most likely not getting the full higher gear ratio. Does your shifter seem to have excess slack when going to the lower gears?? Because it's not timed right and not at full high ratio, I believe that's why it's bouncing back and not staying at top gear, the tension may also be a little high.

You can watch this video on how it's installed properly:

When it's working properly, I think the nuvinci is a perfectly compliment to a mid drive bike where someone is just riding around leisurely or commuting at a brisk but not extreme pace. My bike is smooth and quiet, it's perfect for me.

 

[Ddewsbury]

I have two nuvinci problems and I am wondering if anyone has some ideas.

1. Nuvinci n380 with gates. I get full range on the hub, but the info graphic goes from steep hill to moderate hill only. It doesnt go flat. No biggie really, just curious.

2. Nuvinci n360 with gates on pegasus premio nu. The grip shifter has significantly more resistance than my n380. It's harder to turn and dial in the perfect cadence. Cable tension is set right with full range of shifting.

Any ideas?

 

[steve mercier]

I have new respect for the Nuvinci after reading this post from member Marcparis :
"I purchased a Riese & Müller Supercharger GT Nuvinci HS in April 2018 and started a touring journey from Paris, France. I am now in India having cycled 21,000 miles/34,000 kms in 28 countries. I wanted to share my feelings about the ebike.

In addition to the 2 500W Bosch Powertube batteries, I purchased 2 additional batteries that I carry in my Ortlieb paniers. It gives me a range of more than 130 miles/210 kms.

I recharge the batteries when I reach the hotel. It takes about 3 hours and 15 minutes for each battery to recharge fully when empty.

The main issue I had is that the Bosch motor broke down after 19,000 miles/30,000 kms. It happened after crossing the Pamir, Karakoram, Kashmir and Ladakh mountainous area. I crossed several high altitude passes at an elevation of up to 17,580 feet/5359 m. I had hundreds of miles of unpaved roads in this area. The Bosch motor was under warranty and they replaced it for free. At this time, in the South of India, the ebike has no issue at all. The Schwalbe Super moto tyres are impressive. Only 4 flat tyres in the entire journey. I changed them for the first time at 11,000 miles/18,000 kms to be safe but they could have lasted longer.

I have been very happy with the ebiike and do not regret my purchase. " It sounds like MarcParis has done some serious climbs with that setup.

 

[Feliz]

Thanks for the input. The curious thing about the R&M bikes is that there are many more models R&M offers that have the NuVinci hubs than Rohloffs and I can't imagine they would be offering them as an available alternative if they had a tendency to fail. And the R&M NuVinci-equipped bikes are also quite pricey and more than I want to spend for the opportunity to discover whether e-biking will scratch my itch and my purchase not become an unused ornament in the garage. I spent quite awhile on the phone today with the owner of Evelo inquiring about their experiences with the NuVinci, with which they have had a lengthy history. I came away reassured that, not only will the warranty on the hub be honored by their supplier even if paired with the 750W motor (an issue raised earlier in this thread), but that what few issues they have experienced among the thousands of these units they have sold have arisen when the rear wheel is not carefully removed (by owner or shop employee - for flat repair for example) when the instructions for removal are not carefully followed. He acknowledged damage can occur if the easily followed instructions are ignored. At this point, absent some other alarm bells while I deliberate, I am leaning towards the Evelo Aurora in the "fully loaded" configuration.

The Rohloff needs to be installed correctly as well if it's to work properly. It's not difficult to install but it must be done properly, when I received my Rohloff
equipped Wattwagons Commuter the Rohloff didn't work at all, it was my first experience with that transmission so it was a steep learning curve but due to several helpful utube videos I discovered it was improperly installed and probably never test ridden, I've reinstalled it and it works flawlessly. There's just two cables that have to be installed and set up properly and like the Nuvinci it's actually a very simple process.

 

[Cinecal]

If you are looking at a Rohloff, vs Nuvinci go with Rohloff. I ride a dual battery R+M with a Nuvinci. Had it for years for commuting etc... and its a great bike, but it really needs another 2 or 3 "gears". It's close, but really wish I had a Rohloff, and they won't retrofit after the fact.