No throttle and no way home today... :(

[Gionnirocket]

Good post overall, except for this one part. Prior to 2020, dozens and dozens of careful, peer-reviewed studies showed that masks don't stop the spread of viruses. Period. Even Mr. Fauci said in Feb. 2020 that general public masking would not be worthwhile to combat C-virus, but a month later he reversed himself; which one was the lie? Masks are worn in operating rooms primarily to protect the open incision from (relatively) large bacteria-laden droplets. Besides, everyone touches and fiddles with their own masks and contaminates them anyway.

The reason for the reversal was given and it was clear and unambiguous.
So there was no lie... Just morons and sheep without an ounce of common sense claiming so.

 

[Tars Tarkas]

Guns! Abortions!! Trump! Hillary!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Guns! Abortions!! Trump! Hillary!

THROTTLE!

 

[Djangodog]

Okay time to shut down the Throttle.
It got me to my cave.
@Angela do you agree?

I agree. It ran amuck some time ago.

 

[Djangodog]

MY APOLOGIES FOR TRASHING THIS THREAD BUT WHEN SOMEONE CLAIMS PEER REVIEWS DEVOID OF EVIDENCE... OR CITATIONS...



Ah jeez, really! Don’t trash a thread with this crap.

Y Li, M Liang, L Gao, MA Ahmed, JP Uy… - American Journal of …, 2021 - Elsevier
… This meta-analysis of all available articles provides the most current evidence to date on
the … In our results, the use of face masks reduced the risk of COVID-19 infection by 70% for …

Journal reference: PNAS 2020
DOI: 10.1073/pnas.2014564118

Abstract​

The science around the use of masks by the general public to impede COVID-19 transmission is advancing rapidly. Policymakers need guidance on how masks should be used by the general population to combat the COVID-19 pandemic. Here, we synthesize the relevant literature to inform multiple areas: 1) transmission characteristics of COVID-19, 2) filtering characteristics and efficacy of masks, 3) estimated population impacts of widespread community mask use, and 4) sociological considerations for policies concerning mask-wearing. A primary route of transmission of COVID-19 is likely via small respiratory droplets, and is known to be transmissible from presymptomatic and asymptomatic individuals. Reducing disease spread requires two things: first, limit contacts of infected individuals via physical distancing and contact tracing with appropriate quarantine, and second, reduce the transmission probability per contact by wearing masks in public, among other measures. The preponderance of evidence indicates that mask wearing reduces the transmissibility per contact by reducing transmission of infected droplets in both laboratory and clinical contexts. Public mask wearing is most effective at stopping spread of the virus when compliance is high. The decreased transmissibility could substantially reduce the death toll and economic impact while the cost of the intervention is low. Thus we recommend the adoption of public cloth mask wearing, as an effective form of source control, in conjunction with existing hygiene, distancing, and contact tracing strategies. We recommend that public officials and governments strongly encourage the use of widespread face masks in public, including the use of appropriate regulation.

You can’t trash something that is already trash and anti-mask or any misinformation needs to be stood called out.

 

[6zfshdb]

Why is every discussion on throttle use like lighting a fuse? We all have our own opinions but can't we simply agree to disagree and move on?

There has been a lot of useful information posted here. Can't we share without all the personal attacks and inflammatory rhetoric? for those who dislike throttles, I understand your position but please, just skip these threads and post elsewhere.

 

[AHicks]

Then you are not disabled. So the throttle in your case is for convenience, not need, but you think that you should be able to use it even if prohibited because you say that a disabled person should be allowed to, of which you are not. Alrighty then, clear as mud. That make perfect sense.

Using other’s disabilities to make an argument for you getting your own way. Maybe that will come back to bite you….

Unlike you, this isn't just about me. My pro throttle advocating is about a lot of people (particularly AARP aged folks) that will be stranded on the side lines, because so called "experts" or "purists" or whatever the hell they want to call themselves, are telling them they can't have a throttle. Pretty sure about 99% of the "starter" type bikes, the ones these folks are most likely looking at, ALL come with throttles.

Some even try to spread the complete BS that as a rookie driver, they shouldn't even be allowed to use a MUP trail. To that bunch of crap, I say phooey. Ride what you want, where you want. Nobody cares what you're riding. Go for it....

 

[AHicks]

I called Lee the owner of the dealership that sold me my Biktrix ebike. I asked him about it and express my interest in trying twist throttle. He pretty much said something similarly close to what you said.
Also at Mr. @AHicks got me wondering if throttle on my bike was flawed but it's supposed to be like that. Only use it when you already have forward momentum, from a dead stop it's not advisable.
Things like this, How to properly use throttle is what I have to re learn when riding a throttle equipped ebike.
All those times I have use it from a dead stop, something could have broken.

On the bold, that is total, complete, absolute bull crap. You should be able to use it any time you want to, even from the start. As a matter of fact, a LOT of people use them (most?) on EVERY start, long enough to get their balance during those first few feet the bike starts moving. Further, MOST bikes allow speeds from a slow walk to wide open using the throttle function - JUST LIKE the throttle on your car. If yours isn't working like this, there's an issue with it. Period, end of story, no if's to it. You either misunderstood him, or he's an idiot.

Twist throttles are to be used with something that has a clutch only. No clutch, no twist throttle. Too many people have lost their balance and gone on trips into the woods prior to getting the vehicle/bike under control, myself included (on a very high powered ATV).

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Unlike you, this isn't just about me. My pro throttle advocating is about a lot of people (particularly AARP aged folks) that will be stranded on the side lines, because so called "experts" or "purists" or whatever the hell they want to call themselves, are telling them they can't have a throttle.

How happens several million of Europeans do without the throttle?

Pretty sure about 99% of the "starter" type bikes, the ones these folks are most likely looking at, ALL come with throttles.

because it the the Chinese cr*p flooding North America.

As a matter of fact, a LOT of people use them (most?) on EVERY start, long enough to get their balance during those first few feet the bike starts moving.

Because they cannot (are unable to) ride bikes?

 

[AHicks]

How happens several million of Europeans do without the throttle?

Maybe this thinking past due for some changes as well? That's the same knee jerk reaction legislation we're talking about here.

because it the the Chinese cr*p flooding North America.

I don't believe you have a clue what you are talking about.

Because they cannot (are unable to) ride bikes?

So maybe if they were allowed a leg up (e.g. throttle), they could....

 

[PedalUma]

@Stefan Mikes, Your bike was made in China. Look at the sticker. It says 'Made In China'. I agree with both sides here. And watching the ping-pong is fun. I will do the throttle with my foot. Not cadence. That is the most responsive way.

 

[Djangodog]

Unlike you, this isn't just about me. My pro throttle advocating is about a lot of people (particularly AARP aged folks) that will be stranded on the side lines, because so called "experts" or "purists" or whatever the hell they want to call themselves, are telling them they can't have a throttle. Pretty sure about 99% of the "starter" type bikes, the ones these folks are most likely looking at, ALL come with throttles.

Some even try to spread the complete BS that as a rookie driver, they shouldn't even be allowed to use a MUP trail. To that bunch of crap, I say phooey. Ride what you want, where you want. Nobody cares what you're riding. Go for it....

You claim that it’s not all about you, but in reality, it seems to be. You are the one that seems to think that they are privileged and above the law.

At 315 pounds, your total weight with bike is pushing close to 400 pounds. Basically, you present a greater hazard than a cyclist and bike combination weighing less than half of that, (the average, conventional cyclist). Add to that that you are adding a motor, throttle and the reflexes of a 72 year old man, I would think that you are a hazard and putting others at risk, (a linebacker sprinting toward children and the elderly could kill someone). To add to the selfishness and self servitude, you have also indicated that your bike’s specs exceed the legal limits, so if you want to look for self serving, you need look no further than the mirror. I am not the one wining about the laws and regulations or feeling that I am to special to obey the laws.

My position is not about the use of a throttle, but the blatant disregard for the rules regulating where it can be used.

The problem is not “elitists” or “experts” as much as it is about “yahoos” and privileged people that give throttle users a bad name. People like you and some other snowflakes.

To be clear, I have only been riding an ebike for a few months. The rules are the rules and I had nothing to do with their creation.

I don’t care if someone wants to use a throttle. I do think that following those rules is the right thing to do and I feel that a 315 pound, 72 year old person on a hopped up ebike presents an unnecessary hazard.

 

[mschwett]

How happens several million of Europeans do without the throttle?

it will be very interesting to see what the trend of ebike sales is over the years. by far the largest market is asia, which has a pretty wide range of regulations and approaches, from ultra-stringent japan to the wild west of various parts of china.

in 2019 about 3 million ebikes were sold in europe, or one per 250 people. one assumes it continued to grow during the pandemic, call it one per 200 people. the U.S. market passed a million ebikes last year or this year, so one per 330 people. rapidly approaching a similar ratio to europe, despite the lack of good infrastructure. i haven't cycled much of europe but i assume the average level of infrastructure is higher, with extreme high spots like the low and nordic countries, and relatively lower spots in spain and so on. by comparison there are relatively fewer areas of good infrastructure in the united states, with some high spots in a few western and/or coastal cities. one wonders if rapid uptake of ebikes in the united states despite crappy infrastructure is aided by faster, more robust, more powerful bikes?

 

[Djangodog]

it will be very interesting to see what the trend of ebike sales is over the years. by far the largest market is asia, which has a pretty wide range of regulations and approaches, from ultra-stringent japan to the wild west of various parts of china.

in 2019 about 3 million ebikes were sold in europe, or one per 250 people. one assumes it continued to grow during the pandemic, call it one per 200 people. the U.S. market passed a million ebikes last year or this year, so one per 330 people. rapidly approaching a similar ratio to europe, despite the lack of good infrastructure. i haven't cycled much of europe but i assume the average level of infrastructure is higher, with extreme high spots like the low and nordic countries, and relatively lower spots in spain and so on. by comparison there are relatively fewer areas of good infrastructure in the united states, with some high spots in a few western and/or coastal cities. one wonders if rapid uptake of ebikes in the united states despite crappy infrastructure is aided by faster, more robust, more powerful bikes?

I can’t speak for Europeans, because I am from the US, but I have ridden many happy kilometers primarily through the Czech Republic and Slovakia. From my perspective, cycling and general attitude regarding cycling tend to be very different depending on culture. Europeans generally have a much greater love of cycling in general as a spectator sport, participant sport and as way mode of transportation or recreation.

Then there is the USA. The land of diesel trucks that are modified for the sole purpose of “blowing coal” so they can terrorize and assault cyclists and pedestrians, monster trucks and anything else that makes us feel powerful, (but it is home and still the only place that I want to live, and before you say anything, I served in uniform and love my country, so I have no intention of leaving, thanks).

Not all Americans are like this and the vast majority are decent, caring people, but as with those that abuse the throttle, the “problem children” get most of the attention and are generally the reason the laws exist in the first place, (kind of ironic that they seem to be the ones that cry the loudest about the very laws that they helped to cause).

Serious cyclists are often looked upon as elitists, and on this very forum, called “clown suit wearing elitists”. As a longtime cyclist, I have been the victim of harassment by people feeling empowered by the power that they feel while driving, (ironically, it is probably more of an inferiority complex or overcompensation that they are reacting to). I had a good friend assaulted by a couple guys in a pick’em’up truck. One leaned out the window and shoved her, causing her to lose control and end up with serious, but fortunately, not life threatening injuries, (although they could have been). She is an elite athlete. She is an “official” runner in the Boston Marathon and other endurance races. She races road bikes as a semi-pro. She is a sweet and beautiful woman. She did nothing to provoke the attack other than probably making the people in the truck feel inferior by her very existence.

I think that that same mentality carries over to other activities, (power boats vs paddle craft and sailboats, big 4x4s vs compact cars, motorcycle vs motor scooter…). It doesn’t seem to matter that the kayak or sailboat requires more skill and effort. What seems to be all important is the piece of equipment that provides the feeling of power and that you can have it with little or no effort, (instant gratification).

A throttle can be useful and for some it probably greatly enhances their ability to get out and enjoy life. For others, it might make a commute easier and therefore more obtainable. For others, it might just be something that they like having, (peace of mind, convenience, supplementing their own effort, just liking it…. That is all valid and fine, and none of my concern. My concern is when people break the laws, because they give ebikes a bad name, can create an unsafe situation or can cause a more generalized ban on ebikes.

Addressing the future, I don’t think that it is a one size fits all. Dirt roads in Vermont are very different from a congested urban environment. I trekking bike that works well in Germany is probably not a great fit for competitive cycling. Classes of e-bikes are a good start. Education and mutual respect is also very important. If the yahoos push the envelop repeatedly, the establishment will push back, and they hold the best cards, so I would rather work with them than oppose them or worse, antagonize them and call their hand.

 

[PedalUma]

I suspect that there will be a migration in the US from heavy clunky eBikes that have throttles with junky parts to better bikes that are not just for sport but highly useful as transportation.

 

[Rexlion]

Ah jeez, really! Don’t trash a thread with this crap.

Several people had posted their opinion that this had turned into a crap thread already, so I thought WTH, let's stir the pot!

 

[Taylor57]

I suspect that there will be a migration in the US from heavy clunky eBikes that have throttles with junky parts to better bikes that are not just for sport but highly useful as transportation.

You scratched my anchor!

 

[Rexlion]

How happens several million of Europeans do without the throttle?

How does it happen that millions of people in India do without toilet paper? (Never touch people with the left hand in India BTW)

 

[Stefan Mikes]

As Djangodog said, Europeans are cycling people. While many Americans are all for power and mostly drive automatic transmission cars, Europeans often do with less power, and mostly drive manual transmission cars. (Take Italy, a G7 -- montane -- country where most of citizens just love driving small cars). The concept of the derailleur is as natural for an European as the mother's milk. And no, no European despite of their age has any issues to move their bike from the intersection.

Mschwett was quoting the 2019 e-bike sales figures. He forgot the number of e-bikes has been accumulating for several years now. Often quoted figure is "10 times as many e-bikes in Europe as in the whole North America". And no throttle here.

If any of you has a chance to travel to any montane area of Europe, you will notice there are almost only e-bikes there. And no throttle.

 

[PedalUma]

Who needs toilet paper. It is why most bikes have the throttle on the left. An ideal place to wipe it.
The coastal folks are more like the Europeans than the flyover places. Since the thread has gone to Shite anyway, this road bike came in. My neighbor saw it yesterday an said it belongs in the landfill and isn't worth touching. It is getting a café bar that will be wrapped tomorrow and the pedals will arrive then. I cleaned the inside of the frame and mixed touchup colors. The aluminum was black. I would rather ride a bike like this across town than a heavy throttle bike. Bikes like this are fast. 45 Kph, no problem.