No throttle and no way home today... :(

[AHicks]

Tom, you better never quote unverified opinions (even if those came from me when I was sunbathing in Tuscany, Italy).

The EU definition of a "bicycle" is "a vehicle of width not exceeding 0.9 m moved solely by the power of the person riding this vehicle; the bicycle can be equipped with auxiliary electric drive of maximum voltage of 48V and of maximum continuous rated power of 250 W actuated by pedalling; the drive output power shall gradually diminish and reach the value of zero after exceeding 25 km/h". This definition clearly defines that a Euro e-bike cannot be equipped with the throttle.

Having said the above. A Euro e-bike is just a bike. No-one can deny e-bikes an entry if traditional bikes are admitted. (Unlike the NYS Greenway, and you know what I mean).
------------------------------
Regulation (EU) No 168/2013 on the approval and market surveillance of two‐ or three-wheel vehicles and quadricycles provides that all electric bicycles except those with a maximum speed of 25 km/h and a continuous rated motor output of 250 W are subject to type approval.

REGULATION (EU) No 168/2013 OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL of 15 January 2013
on the approval and market surveillance of two- or three-wheel vehicles and quadricycles (Text with EEA relevance)

This broad regulation allows a wide variety of throttle operated e-vehicles, such as:

• L1e-A, a "powered bicycle" with up to 1 kW drive and max speed of 25 km/h
• L1e-B: a "two wheel moped" of power up to 4 kW and max speed of 45 km/h (I own one, by Specialized)
• L2e: a "trike moped" with specs as L1e-B.

Many categories more.

Where is a catch then? ..."are subject to type approval." Actually killing DIYers as you are Tom. Because you would have never be able to get your e-bikes Type Approved here.

Interestingly, Specialized, Trek, Riese & Muller, Cube and several more actually make L1e-B "electric mopeds". The law allows throttle for that Type. Why no throttle then? Because we Europeans actually know (as @Djangodog does) what "cycling" really means.
------------------------------
Electric wheelchairs? As vehicles of max speed of 6 km/h, these do not require type approval and are very popular in Europe.

Thank you for your attention.

They also kill any chances for a LOT of people that would like to try an e-bike, but for whatever physical limitation, or perhaps just a lack of confidence in their abilities, they will never get the chance they might have if a throttle were allowed.

So you can just go sit on that smug no throttle attitude. I hope it bites your a$$ someday....

 

[Djangodog]

Tom, you better never quote unverified opinions (even if those came from me when I was sunbathing in Tuscany, Italy).

The EU definition of a "bicycle" is "a vehicle of width not exceeding 0.9 m moved solely by the power of the person riding this vehicle; the bicycle can be equipped with auxiliary electric drive of maximum voltage of 48V and of maximum continuous rated power of 250 W actuated by pedalling; the drive output power shall gradually diminish and reach the value of zero after exceeding 25 km/h". This definition clearly defines that a Euro e-bike cannot be equipped with the throttle.

Having said the above. A Euro e-bike is just a bike. No-one can deny e-bikes an entry if traditional bikes are admitted. (Unlike the NYS Greenway, and you know what I mean).
------------------------------
Regulation (EU) No 168/2013 on the approval and market surveillance of two‐ or three-wheel vehicles and quadricycles provides that all electric bicycles except those with a maximum speed of 25 km/h and a continuous rated motor output of 250 W are subject to type approval.

REGULATION (EU) No 168/2013 OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL of 15 January 2013
on the approval and market surveillance of two- or three-wheel vehicles and quadricycles (Text with EEA relevance)

This broad regulation allows a wide variety of throttle operated e-vehicles, such as:

• L1e-A, a "powered bicycle" with up to 1 kW drive and max speed of 25 km/h
• L1e-B: a "two wheel moped" of power up to 4 kW and max speed of 45 km/h (I own one, by Specialized)
• L2e: a "trike moped" with specs as L1e-B.

Many categories more.

Where is a catch then? ..."are subject to type approval." Actually killing DIYers as you are Tom. Because you would have never be able to get your e-bikes Type Approved here.

Interestingly, Specialized, Trek, Riese & Muller, Cube and several more actually make L1e-B "electric mopeds". The law allows throttle for that Type. Why no throttle then? Because we Europeans actually know (as @Djangodog does) what "cycling" really means.
------------------------------
Electric wheelchairs? As vehicles of max speed of 6 km/h, these do not require type approval and are very popular in Europe.

Thank you for your attention.

Stefan, you are going to bring Hell’s fury down on our heads, (that’s fine with me, debate is what a forum is for).

I’m not sure that someone that is disabled to the point of being completely unable to pedal, even with good pedal assist, should be running around on two wheels at 20 mph with a throttle, especially in areas where there are pedestrians that include children and elderly people. There may be a few exceptions. Unfortunately, some disabilities prevent someone from doing certain activities, (a blind pilot or driver are good examples).

There have been a lot of arguments made in favor of having a throttle, from disability to safety, and they may all be valid, but I doubt that many people actually have a throttle for any reason other than making cycling easier or more convenient, and that’s fine. Some strongly disagree, but I think that motorized vehicle, (I include an e-bike with a throttle), with the exception of something being used by a disabled person, have no place on a rail trail or bike path.

Vermont and New Hampshire have some lakes, ponds and rivers that don’t allow any power boats. Some areas restrict by horsepower. Others are human or sail only. There are people that think that these laws are ridiculous, but some are because of safety, some are because of wild life and some are because the water is for drinking. Some people are going to be be up in arms about it, but there are still plenty of places that they can use their power boat.

Berating people on this forum or making fun of people that have taken cycling seriously through the years won’t change that, (lycra laden/clown suit wearing….not really helpful if you want to convert someone). If you want the laws to change, get involved in the process, (or block/ignore me if that makes you feel better). Cycling has been around for more than 150 years. There may actually be some “clown suit wearing” people out there that understand some of the ins and outs of the politics. The cyclist that goes buy you on the flats at 20+ mph has many hours and many thousands of miles under their belt. I’m guessing that in most cases that they are probably not as dangerous as an inexperienced person with a throttle, but who knows.

 

[AHicks]

Stefan, you are going to bring Hell’s fury down on our heads, (that’s fine with me, debate is what a forum is for).

I’m not sure that someone that is disabled to the point of being completely unable to pedal, even with good pedal assist, should be running around on two wheels at 20 mph with a throttle, especially in areas where there are pedestrians that include children and elderly people. There may be a few exceptions. Unfortunately, some disabilities prevent someone from doing certain activities, (a blind pilot or driver are good examples).

There have been a lot of arguments made in favor of having a throttle, from disability to safety, and they may all be valid, but I doubt that many people actually have a throttle for any reason other than making cycling easier or more convenient, and that’s fine. Some strongly disagree, but I think that motorized vehicle, (I include an e-bike with a throttle), with the exception of something being used by a disabled person, have no place on a rail trail or bike path.

Vermont and New Hampshire have some lakes, ponds and rivers that don’t allow any power boats. Some areas restrict by horsepower. Others are human or sail only. There are people that think that these laws are ridiculous, but some are because of safety, some are because of wild life and some are because the water is for drinking. Some people are going to be be up in arms about it, but there are still plenty of places that they can use their power boat.

Berating people on this forum or making fun of people that have taken cycling seriously through the years won’t change that, (lycra laden/clown suit wearing….). If you want the laws to change, get involved in the process, (or block/ignore me if that makes you feel better). Cycling has been around for more than 150 years. There may actually be some “clown suit wearing” people out there that understand some of the ins and outs of the politics. The cyclist that goes buy you on the flats at 20+ mph has many hours and many thousands of miles under his belt. I’m guessing that in most cases that they are probably not as dangerous as an inexperienced person with a throttle, but who knows.

On the bold,
Completely Irrelevant
Assuming with no facts to back you up.

A blind pilot or driver are just about the crappiest examples you could have chosen. I would counter those with folks that have arthritic knees for example, or somebody using a bike for rehab, that feels they may need a throttle to get back.

Or some "experienced" rider threading his way down a busy MUP as compared to somebody riding with a throttle equipped bike, but not using it. The assumption that somebody riding a throttle equipped bike is dangerous is worth just about as much as clown suits and busy MUP can't possibly coexist.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Stefan, you are going to bring Hell’s fury down on our heads, (that’s fine with me, debate is what a forum is for).

I’m not sure that someone that is disabled to the point of being completely unable to pedal, even with good pedal assist, should be running around on two wheels at 20 mph with a throttle, especially in areas where there are pedestrians that include children and elderly people. There may be a few exceptions. Unfortunately, some disabilities prevent someone from doing certain activities, (a blind pilot or driver are good examples).

There have been a lot of arguments made in favor of having a throttle, from disability to safety, and they may all be valid, but I doubt that many people actually have a throttle for any reason other than making cycling easier or more convenient, and that’s fine. Some strongly disagree, but I think that motorized vehicle, (I include an e-bike with a throttle), with the exception of something being used by a disabled person, have no place on a rail trail or bike path.

Vermont and New Hampshire have some lakes, ponds and rivers that don’t allow any power boats. Some areas restrict by horsepower. Others are human or sail only. There are people that think that these laws are ridiculous, but some are because of safety, some are because of wild life and some are because the water is for drinking. Some people are going to be be up in arms about it, but there are still plenty of places that they can use their power boat.

Berating people on this forum or making fun of people that have taken cycling seriously through the years won’t change that, (lycra laden/clown suit wearing….nor really helpful if you want to convert someone). If you want the laws to change, get involved in the process, (or block/ignore me if that makes you feel better). Cycling has been around for more than 150 years. There may actually be some “clown suit wearing” people out there that understand some of the ins and outs of the politics. The cyclist that goes buy you on the flats at 20+ mph has many hours and many thousands of miles under their belt. I’m guessing that in most cases that they are probably not as dangerous as an inexperienced person with a throttle, but who knows.

I can understand disabled people. A neighbour with legs' disability managed to get himself a trike that looked like a POS but was equipped with a powerful Direct Drive motor and a huge battery. The guy equipped his trike with decent lights (including the stop indicator), marked the thing with a large "Disabled" symbol and was riding local roads only, everyday, disregarding the weather. He was as smart as to demand limiting his e-trike speed to 45 km/h. That trike was the only joy of his life.

Out of sudden, the powerful e-trike disappeared. Its place has been taken by a relatively lightweight inexpensive traditional trike. What's happened?! I haven't see the neighbour for many days either. Hopefully I can meet him and learn the truth.

When we, however, talk of a young, healthy "fast'n'furious" brat riding a MUP with the whole frame triangle occupied by a battery pack at a crazy speed of 60 or more km/h, I can only wish him die before he kills someone else.

 

[tomjasz]

I can only wish him die before he kills someone else

Evil and incredibly mean spirited.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Evil and incredibly mean spirited.

Intentionally. What do you do in your neighbourhood when you see a criminal approaching your home with a rifle? Say 'Hello'?

 

[tomjasz]

Intentionally. What do you do in your neighbourhood when you see a criminal approaching your home with a rifle? Say 'Hello'?

Again you obfuscate the discussion with an irrelevant idiotic statement.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Again you obfuscate the discussion with an irrelevant idiotic statement.

No. The illegal rider is a kamikaze. A suicidal killer.
Someone in France was heavily punished for causing death of a person by running him/her on illegal e-bike. France now punishes an owner of any illegal e-bike with a fine of 30,000 EUR or a year in prison. The sellers of illegal e-bikes can face two-year imprisonment. It is no Wild West here.

€30,000 fines will be dished out to riders caught with a tuned e-bike in France

If you've ever experimented with modding your e-bike to make it more powerful, you'd be extremely wise not to try it and then go for a spin in public if you're French... because a super strict new law means anyone caught with e-bikes tuned to go at assisted speeds of over 25km/h could face a...

ebiketips.road.cc

 

[Djangodog]

On the bold,
Completely Irrelevant
Assuming with no facts to back you up.

A blind pilot or driver are just about the crappiest examples you could have chosen. I would counter those with folks that have arthritic knees for example, or somebody using a bike for rehab, that feels they may need a throttle to get back.

Or some "experienced" rider threading his way down a busy MUP as compared to somebody riding with a throttle equipped bike, but not using it. The assumption that somebody riding a throttle equipped bike is dangerous is worth just about as much as clown suits and busy MUP can't possibly coexist.

You apparently missed the word “inexperienced “.

Do you have a throttle because you “need” it? Does your bike conform to the legal class specifications? Are you hoping to use the disabled person as justification for an able bodied person using a throttle?

As I said, most use it for convenience. A throttle isn’t going to help to rehab anyone unless the rehab is for their thumb.

 

[JRA]

 

[rayray]

Unsubscribed. When people get so upset that there are wishes of death or other insults, it’s no longer worth the time spent reading or considering the comments.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

This story is recent and authentic...

The guy riding this "e-bike" rode into the back of a friend's car. He broke the car's rear window, and broke his jaw himself.

The best of everything was the rider had no hands, and was steering that "e-bike" with his stumps. Doubtful if he could use a throttle but it is not a legal Euro e-bike. (So much of riding with disabilities).

 

[AHicks]

You apparently missed the word “inexperienced “.

Do you have a throttle because you “need” it? Does your bike conform to the legal class specifications? Are you hoping to use the disabled person as justification for an able bodied person using a throttle?

As I said, most use it for convenience. A throttle isn’t going to help to rehab anyone unless the rehab is for their thumb.

Let's consider "experienced" and "able" body. I'm 72, 6'1" and 315 lbs. I currently have a back injury that won't let me sleep in a bed. I have to sleep in a chair. Would you consider me "able"? Would you like to tell me I shouldn't be riding a throttle equipped bike?

What if things were changed around a little bit, and we threatened mid drives with torque assist? We take away your torque assisted bike, and tell you if you want to ride an e-bike, you're going to be riding a cadence based bike with a hub drive. Would you like a throttle with that bike, or no? How is that situation any different for those that may not want to/be able to spend the money for a torque assisted mid drive? Say somebody that's never had an e-bike? Taken a step further, maybe we should ban you from MUP's because of your lack of experience?

I've been riding/driving very high performance vehicles the majority of my lifetime. I'm a pilot with a high performance rating. I've been riding derailleur equipped bikes on and off for over 50 years. E-bikes the last 7. Would you feel threatened by my throttle if riding side by side with me in similar PAS levels, and shifting as required? What if my motor was 3 times as capable as yours? Does that feel threatening when riding next to you?

Re: "rehab for thumb". That's a thoughtless DA comment. I think it was you that said your bike provided a lot of the necessary rehab after your accident, no? If anyone should know, it seems like it would be you regarding the benefits of riding a bike after an injury.

Or are you using the word "able" to describe "fit"? So the only people that should be allowed to ride a throttle equipped bike should be "fit"?

 

[Gionnirocket]

Having said the above. A Euro e-bike is just a bike. No-one can deny e-bikes an entry if traditional bikes are admitted. (Unlike the NYS Greenway, and you know what I mean).
------------------------------

You Euro niggaz think you're hard... come to the Bronx and we see who gets robbed!

Note the half twist hand grip!

It is no Wild West here.

No... It's just the reincarnation of the Third Reich

 

[PedalUma]

I have two friends with throttle bikes. John has a disabled person placard because of his arthritis. Fritz has had recent joint replacements and sometimes uses it as a supplement on very long rides. John is currently loving the trike I made a few years ago with a throttle. It's first owner died recently after having a stroke. John rescued it from the barn where it was stored. It only had 28 miles on the OD. And he restored it. He will sell it later this week. I think we need to self-regulate or there will be an indiscriminate crack down. It is too bad that the few law breakers will wreck it for everyone. I saw something very nice yesterday. A mother and daughter had just done the Marshall Loop on their road bikes and sat next to me at an outdoor cafe. They were beaming and in great shape. I ride mostly for transportation and find that some assistance is nice but l still like it to feel like a bike.

 

[Djangodog]

Let's consider "experienced" and "able" body. I'm 72, 6'1" and 315 lbs. I currently have a back injury that won't let me sleep in a bed. I have to sleep in a chair. Would you consider me "able"? Would you like to tell me I shouldn't be riding a throttle equipped bike?

What if things were changed around a little bit, and we threatened mid drives with torque assist? We take away your torque assisted bike, and tell you if you want to ride an e-bike, you're going to be riding a cadence based bike with a hub drive. Would you like a throttle with that bike, or no? How is that situation any different for those that may not want to/be able to spend the money for a torque assisted mid drive? Say somebody that's never had an e-bike? Taken a step further, maybe we should ban you from MUP's because of your lack of experience?

I've been riding/driving very high performance vehicles the majority of my lifetime. I'm a pilot with a high performance rating. I've been riding derailleur equipped bikes on and off for over 50 years. E-bikes the last 7. Would you feel threatened by my throttle if riding side by side with me in similar PAS levels, and shifting as required? What if my motor was 3 times as capable as yours? Does that feel threatening when riding next to you?

Re: "rehab for thumb". That's a thoughtless DA comment. I think it was you that said your bike provided a lot of the necessary rehab after your accident, no? If anyone should know, it seems like it would be you regarding the benefits of riding a bike after an injury.

Or are you using the word "able" to describe "fit"? So the only people that should be allowed to ride a throttle equipped bike should be "fit"?

I'll take it in order.

"Let's consider "experienced" and "able" body. I'm 72, 6'1" and 315 lbs. I currently have a back injury that won't let me sleep in a bed. I have to sleep in a chair. Would you consider me "able"? Would you like to tell me I shouldn't be riding a throttle equipped bike?"

If you are 315 pounds and 6'1", then you probably have some control over that part of your limitation and a throttle is only going to add to that problem. I don't care if you have a throttle or not, but if you are not supposed to ride in certain places while your throttle is connected, and you still do it, then you are acting irresponsibly and probably think that you are above the law.

"What if things were changed around a little bit, and we threatened mid drives with torque assist? We take away your torque assisted bike, and tell you if you want to ride an e-bike, you're going to be riding a cadence based bike with a hub drive. Would you like a throttle with that bike, or no? How is that situation any different for those that may not want to/be able to spend the money for a torque assisted mid drive? Say somebody that's never had an e-bike? Taken a step further, maybe we should ban you from MUP's because of your lack of experience?"

The short answer is no. I would just dump the e-bike and ride my road bike and probably replace the e-bike with a gravel bike, (non-electric). The throttle or usage regulations are generally in regard to general safety of others. Your premise is a bit ridiculous.

"I've been riding/driving very high performance vehicles the majority of my lifetime. I'm a pilot with a high performance rating. I've been riding derailleur equipped bikes on and off for over 50 years. E-bikes the last 7. Would you feel threatened by my throttle if riding side by side with me in similar PAS levels, and shifting as required? What if my motor was 3 times as capable as yours? Does that feel threatening when riding next to you?"

You got me a bit on the flying experience. I was an advanced rated hang glider pilot and flew for 15 years and had just under 500 hours, but my powered flying was mostly limited to a 152 Cessna, (although I did manage to get in a few hours of complex, twin engine and aerobatic stick time). Back on topic, it's not about me feeling threatened. It's about where the equipment is allowed. After seeing your posts, I don't think that I would want to be any where near you, but that has nothing to do with a motor. Your posts have indicated that your bike doesn't conform to the current allowed classes, but you seem to have decided that you don't agree with the current regulations, so you aren't going to comply. That is a whole other issue.

"Re: "rehab for thumb". That's a thoughtless DA comment. I think it was you that said your bike provided a lot of the necessary rehab after your accident, no? If anyone should know, it seems like it would be you regarding the benefits of riding a bike after an injury."

The bike that I initially used for rehab was a Specialized Stumpjumper followed by my Lemond Tete de Course. The only power came from me. A throttle wouldn't have done anything for me except maybe preventing me from getting stronger

"Or are you using the word "able" to describe "fit"? So the only people that should be allowed to ride a throttle equipped bike should be "fit"?"

I never said anything like that. I am saying that if you want to use a throttle, use one where it is allowed and use one that stops functioning at 20 mph like it is supposed to. Use a class 1 bike where allowed. Use a proper class 3 bike only where it is allowed. Use a "legal" bike only. You can't drive a F1 car on the street. You can't land a Hang Glider at JFK. You can't use a Cigarette boat on our local reservoir and you shouldn't drive while under the influence just because you think that you can handle it and don't agree with the law.

I didn't make the laws. I don't enforce the laws. If you don't like the law, get it changed. If you choose to disregard the law, then suffer the consequences. It's not complicated and being angry at me won't change you being 315 pounds or where you can ride a class 2 bike.

 

[Djangodog]

You Euro niggaz think you're hard... come to the Bronx and we see who gets robbed!

View attachment 132137
Note the half twist hand grip!



No... It's just the reincarnation of the Third Reich

My father and uncles fought against the Third Reich. They never told me that it was about bicycle laws. I was under the misunderstanding that it was about fascism. I guess that some people consider any regulations that they don't like to be tyranny.

If you are going for offensive, congratulations, bulls eye.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

My father and uncles fought against the Third Reich. They never told me that it was about bicycle laws. I was under the misunderstanding that it was about fascism. I guess that some people consider any regulations that they don't like to be tyranny.

If you are going for offensive, congratulations, bulls eye.

Ignore Giovanni Ruccola as I did. He is a troll.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

315 lbs

Most of e-bikes are limited to 300 lbs including the bike weight.
You could:

• Visit a doctor
• Get on diet
• Do some exercises for several months
• Then try riding e-bike.

The user @mjeds has described a story how he got fit. Good to follow.

 

[PedalUma]

Remember when there were ashtrays in elevators? There is a cross over of individual liberties with collective responsibilities in shared spaces.