New Juiced Hyper Fat: HF1100 40 mph, Sept 2018 $3,299 Pre-Order

[Asher]

August 9th, 2018: Forget about everything you know about or think you know about e-bikes. The HF1100 is the fat-tire e-bike platform taken to the extreme.

Experience the near-limitless feeling of a 1,800 W peak geared hub motor paired with the magical feeling of proportional torque-sensing pedal assist amplifying your effort up to a 40 mph top speed.

This product could never exist in a production e-bike without the passion and persistence of the dreamers of this world.

The Black HF1100's have been produced and will arrive in September 2018 for inspection and distribution. See Gallery

ELECTRONIC FEATURES

• 1,100 Watt MAC Geared 12T Hub Motor with 1,813 W peak - Learn More
• 52 V / 19.2 Ah Extended Range Battery Pack (LG 14S6P) - Learn More
• LCD Advanced Matrix Display with Race Mode - Learn More
• Torque Sensor + HD Cadence Sensors + Throttle - Learn More
• 8A Super Fast Programmable Charger (Cycle Satiator) - Learn More
• 1,050 Lumen LED Headlight - Learn More

MECHANICAL FEATURES

• Powerful 180mm Hydraulic Disc Brakes
• Adjustable Air Suspension Fork with lockout
• 26" x 4.0" Racing Slicks
• 9 Speed Shimano Cassette Drivetrain
• Rear Half Fender
• Comes in 3 Sizes M / L / XL
• Weight capacity 275 lbs
• Price Includes Shipping Within the USA

PERFORMANCE

• Pedal Assist speed 40 mph
• Throttle only speed 35 mph
• Due to the high power motor and high speeds, this bike is designed for non-public roads only.

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My thoughts:

While it's obviously a cool bike, I have very mixed feelings about it. If these are sold in mass quantities, like the CCS, RCS and Scrambler, it could be a setback to ebiking as riders start pushing the top speeds on these bikes on bike lanes and bike paths, and generate confusion about how fast ebikes can go. Juiced is innovative, but the extralegal innovation is a bit much (35 mph throttle alone).

If it were a limited run of say 100 bikes, you could write it off as a marketing stunt (like with a halo car model) to build the brand. But given that this has pre-order and non-pre-order pricing, it looks like this one will go into full production.

I'd much rather have seen what I call the Juiced Hyper Swift, an amped up CCS, with the 1100W MAC motor, rigid fork, alloy fenders, Shimano Deore and 2.3-2.8" balloon tires ($2,700 pre-order, $3,200 full?). A 30 mph top speed would still be road legal, albeit under a moped license. Personally, I think the higher power is more useful for occasional inclement conditions like hills and wind, than going faster.

Safety aside, riding this on public roads at 30+ mph could be terminally stupid, because the police could impound it at the drop of a hat. It doesn't pass the federal motor vehicle safety standards ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Motor_Vehicle_Safety_Standards ), and goes too fast to be just a moped. So I guess if there ever is a spate of safety issues caused by this bike or others like it, police can just respond by seizing them.

If riders were to only ride at 30+ mph in general travel lanes and not on bike paths, I could probably turn a blind eye. I'm also curious as to what the lowest level of assist is - on the CCS it's 250W or so. If it's any higher, it will be difficult to ride this bike at a safe speed on bike paths - on my CCS I do 24 mph on flats on Eco, which is already too fast for popular bike paths (though the CCS is technically illegal on bike paths in a Class 3 configuration).

 

[Rooster]

Almost bought one of these last night and I thought of how they treated me at customer service with my ocean current and decided against it. Looks like a great bike but I just can't get over the way I was treated on my last one, sorry.

 

[TForan]

My bike has big power but I only use it for hills and burst of speed. I've hit 34mph before and to me , it's too much. At least around town.

 

[Bruce Arnold]

Almost bought one of these last night and I thought of how they treated me at customer service with my ocean current and decided against it. Looks like a great bike but I just can't get over the way I was treated on my last one, sorry.

Rooster, just because you don't like how Juiced handled your complaint doesn't mean they did anything wrong. Every company has some unsatisfied customers. It's just the way things are. Why start this up again?

 

[hurricane56]

As a HF1000 owner, here are some questions that you'll need to Juiced to answer before placing an order:
(I hope to not sound overly critical, but these are pretty important issues to consider if you want to ride this bike long distances or at fast speeds)

1. Does the bike have a service disconnect near the motor in the event of a flat tire change? The HF1000 had bullet connectors and a fully soldered Hall sensor connector all the way up at the head tube. You can still change out a flat tire, but the motor and wheel would essentially be tethered to the bike.

2. How durable is the front shock? My Mozo unit failed within a couple hundred miles of riding. I got a replacement, but decided to put a RockShox unit on it instead. Dissection of the failed Mozo shock revealed a bunch of metal shavings inside the air chamber.

3. A few people had controller issues including me. My original controller went 500 miles before having a bunch of random power shutdowns. Has the controller been retooled?

4. Their battery specification states that the BMS can handle a 45 amp peak. They claimed this on the 48v packs, but further testing on my end showed that the BMS would only allow for 39-40 amp peaks before shutting off.

 

[Rooster]

Rooster, just because you don't like how Juiced handled your complaint doesn't mean they did anything wrong. Every company has some unsatisfied customers. It's just the way things are. Why start this up again?

I go to many forums and have had no issues about voicing my opinion of juiced bikes. Only here do I get harrassed about it. What's up with that you guys can't handle the truth? A lot of people on this site,including the ones that run it, evidently, are very discriminating towards anyone that has had a problem with juiced and I'm not the only one that has had a problem with juiced, that is why I try to stay off this site. Just don't understand why everybody gets hurt when I bad mouth juiced, it's all true, I don't make this stuff up and people that are thinking about buying have a right to know. This site is even rashioning my posts, what's up with that? That's discrimination. Some people choose to live with being taken advantage of and just blow it off, I don't and feel that the old saying still stands, "the customer is always right". They will probably ban me for this but I won't be surprised. 358 seconds to go, what kind of crazy stuff is that?

 

[WalkinTarget]

Hahaa, Rooster saying he almost bought this last night gave me a good laugh.

Anyhoo, I just think this is one of those bikes that attracts the wrong kind of rider to ebiking, and will give ebikers a bad name at the end of the day. It surely attracts a lot of attention due to its high speed, but high speed and novice rider equal a disaster waiting to happen.

I'll fess up here and say I wanted a Hyperfat 1000 badly last year, then when they went out of production I wanted a Hyperfat Jr, or what Juiced calls the Rip Current S. It was an OK substitute. Now the Hyperfat 1100 comes out, and I can safely say it would have been a poor choice for me on my regular riding trails.

 

[Asher]

It sets a dangerous, confusing precedent in the public eye for high powered ebikes. High power alone is not a bad thing - it's when it's used to ride at unsafe speeds that it becomes a problem. But high power for going up hills faster (say, 20 mph instead of 12), going through snow and against the wind makes ebikes more useful.

Bikes like these just make people think, "oh, more than 1 HP is dangerous." Not necessarily, but if manufacturers like Juiced let riders go as fast as the horsepower will allow, then high powered bikes will get banned despite their utility. Separate power from speed through speed limiters, and there won't be an issue.

(Before some smart-ass pipes up about people circumventing speed limiters, if they're even half decent, very few people will bother to circumvent them, I'm looking for a 99% solution.)

And WT raises a good point, that there are many people who don't own any ebike yet, who might consider this for their first purchase, and it could be inappropriate for them (from their own self-interest). A bike like the CCS is the most practical for the vast majority of people, IMO.

 

[hurricane56]

It sets a dangerous, confusing precedent in the public eye for high powered ebikes. High power alone is not a bad thing - it's when it's used to ride at unsafe speeds that it becomes a problem. But high power for going up hills faster (say, 20 mph instead of 12), going through snow and against the wind makes ebikes more useful.

Bikes like these just make people think, "oh, more than 1 HP is dangerous." Not necessarily, but if manufacturers like Juiced let riders go as fast as the horsepower will allow, then high powered bikes will get banned despite their utility. Separate power from speed through speed limiters, and there won't be an issue.

(Before some smart-ass pipes up about people circumventing speed limiters, if they're even half decent, very few people will bother to circumvent them, I'm looking for a 99% solution.)

And WT raises a good point, that there are many people who don't own any ebike yet, who might consider this for their first purchase, and it could be inappropriate for them (from their own self-interest). A bike like the CCS is the most practical for the vast majority of people, IMO.

I think this bike is not going to be a good first ebike for most people. Even after riding HF1000 for about 10 months, you realize that depending on your particular use case, all of that power can only be used when certain conditions present themselves. In your typical urban bike lane, it would be way to dangerous to ride over 20mph at the risk of getting doored. Also, the thing I've noticed when riding any pedelec is even if drivers see you, there is a huge visual disconnect between your speed and the pedal cadence. Drivers have a hard time judging distance and speed, so when you're pedaling slowly and riding fast, it doesn't compute.

 

[Rooster]

Hahaa, Rooster saying he almost bought this last night gave me a good laugh.

Anyhoo, I just think this is one of those bikes that attracts the wrong kind of rider to ebiking, and will give ebikers a bad name at the end of the day. It surely attracts a lot of attention due to its high speed, but high speed and novice rider equal a disaster waiting to happen.

I'll fess up here and say I wanted a Hyperfat 1000 badly last year, then when they went out of production I wanted a Hyperfat Jr, or what Juiced calls the Rip Current S. It was an OK substitute. Now the Hyperfat 1100 comes out, and I can safely say it would have been a poor choice for me on my regular riding trails.

Yeah, I think I must have been burning a fatty when I put that out there cause that is pretty funny ?.

 

[WalkinTarget]

Asher, I still recommend the CCS to anyone that likes my ride, but doesn't want to spend that much. I feel it is pretty much the best commuter ebike for under $1500 out there.

Hurricane, you hit the nail on the head with the visual disconnect. Drivers are just not used to a bike being able to maintain an even pace with them, and even if they are aware of you, many do not want to get stuck behind you and will try and pass you even if it isn't safe to pass you.

I've only had one driver in the 2 months I've owned my bike that was very aggressive in passing me, and that was in a gated community. I darn near caught up to them on a roundabout, so I know they were both not anticipating my speed and not wanted to be behind me going into the roundabout.

 

[hurricane56]

@WalkinTarget If you're a proficient rider and can negotiate the right line through a round about, you'll almost always be faster than most cars.

I guess if I were to be devil's advocate here about having the speed, the one clear advantage is riding on roads and taking the lane. I have to do this almost every day on my commute route, and the HF1000 speeds, even if de-tuned to 1500w are more than enough to tell other drivers, "hey look this guy can keep up with me and not slow me down".

However, the reality is that someone out there will either crash hard while riding this type of ebike prompting a crackdown. This will come in form of more stringent regulations and inspection upon import or local traffic enforcement. Just like anything else, 99% of people will be responsible, but some clown will ruin it for everyone else, by riding 40mph through city streets.

If anyone asks me about my ebike, I couldn't honestly tell them it's an ebike because I can go significantly faster than some 2-stroke mopeds.

 

[Rooster]

Funny as it may be, I like this bike I just don't trust it via hurricane. Where I live, it would be perfect. I live in the country and the cops don't care. You just have to use your head for something other than a hat rack. I've been looking at the M2S fat bike, they have a pretty good deal and to go that fast, you need full suspension. HF1100 is awfully tempting. Although I would look pretty stupid if they would even sell me one ?.

 

[Chris Hammond]

While I agree about the use of class 3 bikes or above on trails, higher speeds on the roads in traffic, have some significant advantages. My whole commute is on roads in traffic (most of it in designated bike lane), but I truly feel safer at 30 mph in traffic on the ebike than 20 on my road bike. It makes merging to turn left much easier, I don't feel as nervous when taking the lane when its needed, and the smaller speed differential gives traffic from behind more time to adjust to you as needed.
I would personally love to be cruising at 35 instead of 30. I'll wait and see if Tora filters this down to the CCS so I can easily upgrade.

 

[Jeffrios]

I wonder if they sell bikes without a battery.

 

[Jeffrios]

While I agree about the use of class 3 bikes or above on trails, higher speeds on the roads in traffic, have some significant advantages. My whole commute is on roads in traffic (most of it in designated bike lane), but I truly feel safer at 30 mph in traffic on the ebike than 20 on my road bike. It makes merging to turn left much easier, I don't feel as nervous when taking the lane when its needed, and the smaller speed differential gives traffic from behind more time to adjust to you as needed.
I would personally love to be cruising at 35 instead of 30. I'll wait and see if Tora filters this down to the CCS so I can easily upgrade.

I totally agree, I feel great going 25-30 on my on-road bike lane. If there is an upgrade, I'd probably do it.

 

[Asher]

While I agree about the use of class 3 bikes or above on trails, higher speeds on the roads in traffic, have some significant advantages. My whole commute is on roads in traffic (most of it in designated bike lane), but I truly feel safer at 30 mph in traffic on the ebike than 20 on my road bike. It makes merging to turn left much easier, I don't feel as nervous when taking the lane when its needed, and the smaller speed differential gives traffic from behind more time to adjust to you as needed.
I would personally love to be cruising at 35 instead of 30. I'll wait and see if Tora filters this down to the CCS so I can easily upgrade.

I agree that extra speed is useful for riding with the bulls, my concern is about people using these irresponsibly in bike-specific infrastructure, around other cyclists going much slower.

The European Union is actually considering requiring smart speed limiters for cars, that cap speeds at the speed limit of the street people are on. It might work out well on ebikes in a few years, when GPS gets cheaper and becomes standard, to prevent people from doing 30 mph on a bike path, but to let them do it on the road. (Google Intelligent Speed Assist)

More broadly, the things that make ebikes a promising social solution - efficiency, cost, safety to other people on the road, weight, etc - start to break down when the ebike goes above 25 or 30 mph. The real solution is to slow urban streets down to 20-25 mph, and let people live closer to where they're going. Or put differently, in a pleasant city, a fast ebike doesn't make much sense. I'm actually trying to sell my ebike, because I'm moving to such a place.

 

[Asher]

I crunched some numbers from the Indiegogo backers, and there's about an 8:1 ratio for Scrambler sales, of the City/Camp 28mph version, versus the high powered hyper version. Given that the HyperFat costs even more ($3,299 vs $2,299), the ratio could be even higher, 10-15:1. So I imagine it will be a niche product for now.

 

[CodyDog]

Got to admit it would be fun to have an ebike that went as fast as the HF1100. The concern I have is these type of bikes (irresponsible use of them) bringing down more restrictions on ebikes.

 

[Rob02150]

Almost bought one of these last night and I thought of how they treated me at customer service with my ocean current and decided against it. Looks like a great bike but I just can't get over the way I was treated on my last one, sorry.

Dude. We've heard you a million times.