New Juiced Hyper Fat: HF1100 40 mph, Sept 2018 $3,299 Pre-Order
- Thread starter Asher
- Start date
WalkinTarget
Active Member
My theory on Rooster is .... it's actually Tora using a burner account, and he is essentially tired of spending every single day of his life running around that factory over in China, so whenever he feels like he needs to vent (and possibly slow down production so he can get a well deserved break), he logs in as 'Rooster' and posts some Juiced hate. 
I honestly am OK with Rooster. Its a free country, and he had a bad experience with Juiced, and he is allowed to voice his opinion on any subject that get presented, so might as well get used to it and leave it at that.
Ohh, just to make my post a bit relevant to the topic at hand - is it safe to say the Hyperfat 1100 would sell for $2499 without the 25% tariff imposed ?? If so, that is a really impressive price point for that level of performance.
I honestly am OK with Rooster. Its a free country, and he had a bad experience with Juiced, and he is allowed to voice his opinion on any subject that get presented, so might as well get used to it and leave it at that.
Ohh, just to make my post a bit relevant to the topic at hand - is it safe to say the Hyperfat 1100 would sell for $2499 without the 25% tariff imposed ?? If so, that is a really impressive price point for that level of performance.
Zarathustra
New Member
$3,299 is the pre-tax price.
Rooster
Active Member
I appreciate that, I get so tired of these haters acting like I did something wrong but hey you know what they say, what comes around, goes around. Karma's a biotch. If People would treat people the way they wanted to be treated the world would be a better place.My theory on Rooster is .... it's actually Tora using a burner account, and he is essentially tired of spending every single day of his life running around that factory over in China, so whenever he feels like he needs to vent (and possibly slow down production so he can get a well deserved break), he logs in as 'Rooster' and posts some Juiced hate.
I honestly am OK with Rooster. Its a free country, and he had a bad experience with Juiced, and he is allowed to voice his opinion on any subject that get presented, so might as well get used to it and leave it at that.
Ohh, just to make my post a bit relevant to the topic at hand - is it safe to say the Hyperfat 1100 would sell for $2499 without the 25% tariff imposed ?? If so, that is a really impressive price point for that level of performance.
Asher
Well-Known Member
Yeah, none of the prices have gone up yet.
WalkinTarget
Active Member
Now this is bugging me. I KNOW I read somewhere yesterday that the HF 1100 price was listed and the writer had added a blurb at the end indicating the $25 tariff had pushed the price up, but looking now I cannot find that article.
Asher
Well-Known Member
That was Micah Toll. He was making that up. He may know his electronics but his reporting is frequently sloppy. He also says in the article the CCS is cheaper than the RCS when they're the exact same price.
https://electrek.co/2018/08/12/juic...-with-a-new-40-mph-fat-tire-electric-bicycle/
WalkinTarget
Active Member
BINGO !! That's the article. Thank you again for your input and correction on this one, Asher. I owe you a trail bar and a cold one if you are ever in the woods of southcentral PA
Asher
Well-Known Member
RACING SLICKS!!??
I am a bit confused.. why racing slicks?
Obviously this is NOT intended for off roading.. since it has no treads, not even for rain, or daily commute.
I guess its meant for a race track?
Juiced is trying to skirt the law and play it both ways.
They should just cap the speed at 30 mph and get it classed legally as a moped. Mopeds are usually allowed 2-4 hp (1500-3000w) max, depending on the state.
40 mph may sell bikes, but i kinda doubt people will actually go that speed with much regularity.
Rob02150
Active Member
I like the way this bike is able to have its controller configured to enable certain wattages.
They talk about the device around 3:00
Asher
Well-Known Member
That's besides the point. This bike is not street legal, no ifs or buts. A moped as I propose, IS street legal, depending on state law, if the buyer goes through the right hoops.
In California it's a matter of spending $20 once, completing a form, and getting a motorcycle license.
But really the point is that the bike COULD BE legal, whereas one that goes over 30 mph (the usual moped threshold) cannot be. Juiced wouldn't have to handle paperwork, though they could just have a link to moped registrations - moped dealerships would do the same I'm told, when they existed.
Frankly, these ebike companies are ignorant of the fact that they can get their high powered bikes under moped legislation (depending on the state).
You're better off legally if you have something that could become legal, than one that's prohibited regardless of what you do.
The big problem is probably not law enforcement, but liability. If something bad happens and you're not riding a street legal device, then you could be assigned liability by default.
Bruce Arnold
Well-Known Member
@Asher, Juiced may not be trying to slyly put a hotter-than-legal bike on the street. There could be a market is for an off-road ebike. They sell motorcycles that are not street legal for playing in the dirt. I suppose some people go to the trouble of making them street legal, but most don't.
Yes, I know some will show up where they don't belong -- we used to high-tail it around on Briggs and Stratton-powered minibikes and go-carts when I was a kid and there's no way they were legal, but we did it.
I could very easily see the same folks who buy snowmobiles and ATVs for recreation, farmwork, etc., being pretty interested in something like this. I could see riding fence on a HyperFat, for instance. Nearly as nimble as a horse and a lot less maintenance, plus quiet and smoke-free, unlike an ATV or dirt bike.
I'm thinking about my initial lukewarm reaction to the Scrambler (I've warmed up to the idea since then.) Tora has gone and sold over $800,000 worth of them, tapping into a market that I didn't even know existed.
Maybe those of us who are into bikes have not got the big picture. We all know Tora is pretty smart, but he just might be a lot smarter than we think.
Yes, I know some will show up where they don't belong -- we used to high-tail it around on Briggs and Stratton-powered minibikes and go-carts when I was a kid and there's no way they were legal, but we did it.
I could very easily see the same folks who buy snowmobiles and ATVs for recreation, farmwork, etc., being pretty interested in something like this. I could see riding fence on a HyperFat, for instance. Nearly as nimble as a horse and a lot less maintenance, plus quiet and smoke-free, unlike an ATV or dirt bike.
I'm thinking about my initial lukewarm reaction to the Scrambler (I've warmed up to the idea since then.) Tora has gone and sold over $800,000 worth of them, tapping into a market that I didn't even know existed.
Maybe those of us who are into bikes have not got the big picture. We all know Tora is pretty smart, but he just might be a lot smarter than we think.
Rooster
Active Member
For anything other than flat land commuting everyone knows hub motors don't make sense. Never compete with a mid drive off road, sorry but I think Tora knows exactly what he's doing. He knows the people want that speed for commuting but they're not thinking about the consequences and I'm not bitchin' cause I too like that speed. It all depends on where you live. I'm in the country, so it don't matter around here as the law doesn't really care as long as you stay out of trouble. There's always a risk but it's not on Tora, I'm sure he knows to cover his butt.
Asher
Well-Known Member
Mopeds in California don't require going through any approval process for manufacturers. Believe it's similar in other states. As long as it is electric, has power below a certain threshold (4hp in CA) and doesn't go above 30 mph, there is no added regulatory burden than for a regular ebike, for the manufacturer.
http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=VEH§ionNum=406
Bruce, yeah it's hard to anticipate new applications and the rural/hobbyist ones you mention are interesting.
I did an analysis of Juiced sales on Indiegogo, and there was about 1 hyper version sold for every 8 non hyper versions. Given the 130%/$1300 premium, the marginal increase in power and speed isn't that popular.
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Asher
Well-Known Member
Also, the other appeal of a moped is throttle up to 30 mph. Especially when running with the bulls (cars), I like maximum acceleration, but I can pedal along at 24 mph on Eco.
So on the CCS, the assist drops from the maximum (throttle + pedal) to 250W at 20 mph because the throttle is capped at 20 mph. I want the throttle to max out assist, to accelerate me to the speed of my choosing, and then I'd get off the throttle when I've found my cruising speed. That's not possible with the 20 mph capped throttle on the CCS. (It's also not legal on a California Class 3 ebike but whatever.)
I see this hyper fat has throttle to 35 mph. So, basically I'd want something in between this and the new CCX - power and throttle of the former, form factor and amenities of the latter (with slightly wider rear tire clearance).
So on the CCS, the assist drops from the maximum (throttle + pedal) to 250W at 20 mph because the throttle is capped at 20 mph. I want the throttle to max out assist, to accelerate me to the speed of my choosing, and then I'd get off the throttle when I've found my cruising speed. That's not possible with the 20 mph capped throttle on the CCS. (It's also not legal on a California Class 3 ebike but whatever.)
I see this hyper fat has throttle to 35 mph. So, basically I'd want something in between this and the new CCX - power and throttle of the former, form factor and amenities of the latter (with slightly wider rear tire clearance).
Asher
Well-Known Member
I don't know the law closely in other states but absolutely zero of that is required in California. You just have to put a license plate on it technically. Bike helmets are allowed for mopeds in CA.
Honestly the biggest problem is the term moped. I should just call it a motorized bicycle, which predates ebikes. What people think of as mopeds are scooters in legal parlance, and scooters in popular terms are known as stand-up or kick scooters.
